Schumacher gets dreaded Vote of Confidnece from Mercedes
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91313
Herbert not as kind - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91309
I am not sure if DiResta or Sutil is the answer but how much more ridicule can he take over remainder of the season.
Herbert not as kind - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91309
I am not sure if DiResta or Sutil is the answer but how much more ridicule can he take over remainder of the season.
I guess he is helping with crash testing and redesigning the front wing all on his own! Seriously it was a real "time to go" race for him and even worse than his performace last year when he tried to ram everyone off the track. Coultard was quite good in the post race interview when he said he knew it was time to retire and never look back.
I thought Jordan's Ali analogy was pretty apt. Whilst people remember Ali vs Holmes it didn't really overshadow the rest of his career.
Schumacher is in serious danger of leaving people with the lasting memory of him not as a world champion, but as someone who every time someone comes up behind to overtake has no answer other than trying to force them off the track.
Some might even argue he's already at this point.
Schumacher is in serious danger of leaving people with the lasting memory of him not as a world champion, but as someone who every time someone comes up behind to overtake has no answer other than trying to force them off the track.
Some might even argue he's already at this point.
I largely held off on the criticism of him last year, despite ample opportunity, so that the fabled car designed around him could be delivered.
Well it has, and he's still s
t. Can't see him lasting the year at this rate, Rosberg already leads him 20 points to 6 and qualifies 5 places up on average. He's bumming around in the midfield while rosberg is fighting for podiums, I haven't seen such a notable in team imbalance since hamilton made kovalinen look a bit st.
I'm expecting youtube compilation vids to crop up featuring schumachers race highlights set to noddy music- time for merc to give up on the master plan.
Well it has, and he's still s
t. Can't see him lasting the year at this rate, Rosberg already leads him 20 points to 6 and qualifies 5 places up on average. He's bumming around in the midfield while rosberg is fighting for podiums, I haven't seen such a notable in team imbalance since hamilton made kovalinen look a bit st.I'm expecting youtube compilation vids to crop up featuring schumachers race highlights set to noddy music- time for merc to give up on the master plan.
He just can't help himself in trying to barge past other drivers, it's a very risky strategy given how much wider front wings are compared with his heyday.
On the other hand, given his history of barging others off the road, or trying to, it's poetic justice.
If you look at the close racing that Hamilton and Co get up to, they generally realise that they have a very fragile car and allow room to pass.
Michael still puts his towel over the corner.........
On the other hand, given his history of barging others off the road, or trying to, it's poetic justice.
If you look at the close racing that Hamilton and Co get up to, they generally realise that they have a very fragile car and allow room to pass.
Michael still puts his towel over the corner.........
It is pretty clear that Schumacher will go pretty soon and that will be the right decision. He is way past his best and is just a target for the current crop of hopefuls (Which is all most of them are) to aim at.
However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation.
Coulthard knew when to retire? The truth is he hung around at least two and probably three years longer than he should have. Any comments of his regarding Schumacher need to be in view of the fact that David was made to look very ordinary in Schumacher's company for many years, not just races.
The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Hamilton and co leave room to pass. Really? Some say they give up too easily, and that has certainly been said about Rosberg recently, fuel saving or not.
One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation.
Coulthard knew when to retire? The truth is he hung around at least two and probably three years longer than he should have. Any comments of his regarding Schumacher need to be in view of the fact that David was made to look very ordinary in Schumacher's company for many years, not just races.
The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Hamilton and co leave room to pass. Really? Some say they give up too easily, and that has certainly been said about Rosberg recently, fuel saving or not.
One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
DSM2 said:
It is pretty clear that Schumacher will go pretty soon and that will be the right decision. He is way past his best and is just a target for the current crop of hopefuls (Which is all most of them are) to aim at.
However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation. …
…The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth. …
…One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
Of course the rest are "hopefuls"; so is Scumacher or he wouldn't be there!However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation. …
…The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth. …
…One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
With reference to the car being focussed on him, you say "Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth". - Really DSM2? -Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten? I will stop short of suggesting that you are an idolising 'fanboy' but it is abundantly clear from your comment that you know no more than those you attempt to ridicule, that is; those who disagree with you and would seem to have the capacity to be a little more objective. My understanding - although I will stop short of claiming it to be an absolute truth - is that he has had considerably more input in design development than his team mate, and that this began almost precisely a year ago in an effort to accommodate what is nothing short of a collective embarrassment, however well-intentioned Haug's heroic magnanimity. (Haug is a very nice, very unselfish bloke).
Meanwhile Rosberg quietly gets on with the job, waiting for the day when he can have more influence instead of simply adjusting his driving to accommodate the car, regardless of who's influenced it. And whilst I would agree Rosberg is not exactly 'lightning', it is very clear Schumacher is quite happy to continue to steal his 'thunder'. Then again, most of us have always known how self-centred he is…
Your final sentence is completely irrelevant to this discussion; it is a sentence I hear and read time and time again, and I have to say it sounds like a desperate clinging to someone else's past! How sad that you leap to the defence of your hero's legitmate criticism by claiming that it is they who are ignorant!: neither of you know how to move on…
Wanta996Gotta said:
Herbert not as kind - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91309
There is a fair bit of history between JH and MS.MS is, I would assume, as fast as he ever was. The ability that leaves you is the instant decision making. He was always good at that. Now it is clear that he struggles, especially in comparison with some of the other drivers.
He is there to keep Mercedes plc on board. The funding arrangement is a bit odd and it is not so efficient as that for Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Remove MS and some of the support will go. I would imagine that Ross B is under a fair bit of pressure to produce a car suitable for MS. Rosberg lightened that load in Turkey.
MS normally had the best car and was supported clearly as the #1 driver. This has changed fundamentally this season and he is struggling because of it.
Benetton's belief in what rules actualy applied to their cars had a major effect and Ferrari had the best package on the grid for many years. It was the perfect team, certainly the best I've seen since 1966. Individual weknesses were covered up. Perhaps some of them are being revealed now. Brawn was touted as the best tactician ever in the sport but this has not been apparent for the last couple of seasons.
The formula has changed quite fundamentally over recent years and nowadays a strength in one department, such as engine power, cannot compensate for iffy aero. There is just not the flexibility in the regs. Standard engines, standard aero and no manufacturer benefitting from a tyre made just for them will show the differences in driver ability. Look how much difference a flexible nose makes for the RB.
The question is not so much whether MS is past it: the answer to that seems clear enough. However, one wonders, as one did at the time, just how good he was in his championship years.
Whether he should go or not depends on the Merc board. With layoffs and cuts in production to come will they be happy to throw money at a team which doesn't have MS on board? That's the big question.
MS' 7 titles flatter his ability. Flattered by the position he held at Ferrari and the position Ferrari held during that time in F1. A great driver no doubt, but even at his best, he wouldn't be the best driver on the grid of today. That and the fact he has had 3 years off, is in his 40's, make this very apparent. This is something I have always maintained, his return validates it.
JLJ said:
MS' 7 titles flatter his ability. Flattered by the position he held at Ferrari and the position Ferrari held during that time in F1. A great driver no doubt, but even at his best, he wouldn't be the best driver on the grid of today. That and the fact he has had 3 years off, is in his 40's, make this very apparent. This is something I have always maintained, his return validates it.
I could add to this but it would perhaps be churlish to do so. So I'll leave it at this:I agree with you JLJ.
heebeegeetee said:
Strange comments by JH, 'cos what he's effectively saying is that Nico Rosberg is *waaay* quicker than the likes of Hakkinen and Montoya etc. Which myself I don't believe to be the case. 
Hahaha! 
I think we are about to get on the merry-go-round once again! Just pick the horse your favourite statistics. Hehehe what fun… Here's one I've not seen for a while but it would seem as relevant as any other meaningless historical comparison: Herbert would have blown Scum off the surface of a stagnant pond if he'd not had his horrific injuries.cosicave said:
Hahaha! I think we are about to get on the merry-go-round once again! Just pick the horse your favourite statistics. Hehehe what fun… Here's one I've not seen for a while but it would seem as relevant as any other meaningless historical comparison: Herbert would have blown Scum off the surface of a stagnant pond if he'd not had his horrific injuries.
Er, while I like Johnny I don't think he would. You see, as I said in a previous thread, you win a championship(s) by as much of what you do out of the car as in it, and Johnny just wasn't that clever. I think we are about to get on the merry-go-round once again! Just pick the horse your favourite statistics. Hehehe what fun… Here's one I've not seen for a while but it would seem as relevant as any other meaningless historical comparison: Herbert would have blown Scum off the surface of a stagnant pond if he'd not had his horrific injuries.I'm not a fan of Schumacher (no really, i'm not, but I do admire his achievements), but you have to say that back in his pomp, to beat Schumacher it had to be maximum attack, 100%, throughout every waking moment. Just turning up at a track and pedalling a car quickly was never ever going to be remotely enough to beat him.
But as for now, he might as well forget it. The magic has gone and it ain't coming back. Would love to see Di Resta in that car, out-qualifying Nico. ('Cos I don't think Nico's any good
). Let's face facts, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton have something that many other drivers do not - the ability to be thinking about the race whilst they are racing.
That is what stands them apart from others IMHO.
I don't know why MSC is not doing so well, it could be he is simply not as fit as a 25 year old and less able to take the G forces etc.. I really don't know.
That is what stands them apart from others IMHO.
I don't know why MSC is not doing so well, it could be he is simply not as fit as a 25 year old and less able to take the G forces etc.. I really don't know.
heebeegeetee said:
…But as for now, he might as well forget it. The magic has gone and it ain't coming back. Would love to see Di Resta in that car, out-qualifying Nico. ('Cos I don't think Nico's any good ).
Yes, heebeegeetee. I hope you sensed the tongue in cheek nature of my last response, provoked by the meaningless if onlys and what ifs.). I also agree with your last sentiment: "Would love to see Di Resta in that car, out-qualifying Nico. ('Cos I don't think Nico's any good
). "Nico's good but he's something of an enigma, perhaps not least due to his current position where, unless he actually wins a race, he remains somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea.
This is why I feel that he is getting something of a raw deal: if he actually is lightning, someone is still stealing his thunder…
Bedazzled said:
cosicave said:
...Meanwhile Rosberg quietly gets on with the job, waiting for the day when he can have more influence...
Nico made some interesting comments about that after the last race, he said that he was now more respected in the team, and they were starting to listen to his ideas, which may imply MS had the majority of input until now.…
DSM2 said:
It is pretty clear that Schumacher will go pretty soon and that will be the right decision. He is way past his best and is just a target for the current crop of hopefuls (Which is all most of them are) to aim at.
However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation.
Coulthard knew when to retire? The truth is he hung around at least two and probably three years longer than he should have. Any comments of his regarding Schumacher need to be in view of the fact that David was made to look very ordinary in Schumacher's company for many years, not just races.
The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Hamilton and co leave room to pass. Really? Some say they give up too easily, and that has certainly been said about Rosberg recently, fuel saving or not.
One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
I don't buy that. DC was always slow though - decimated by Haikkinen, Raikkonen and Webber by about the same margin so no real tail off in performance at all.... - He was 50% of Schumacher's main "opposition" in 1995...However it is amusing to see the comments here from people who have little real knowledge of the situation.
Coulthard knew when to retire? The truth is he hung around at least two and probably three years longer than he should have. Any comments of his regarding Schumacher need to be in view of the fact that David was made to look very ordinary in Schumacher's company for many years, not just races.
The car as been designed around him? Ha ha. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Hamilton and co leave room to pass. Really? Some say they give up too easily, and that has certainly been said about Rosberg recently, fuel saving or not.
One thing is for sure. Whatever the current crop do, there is no-one likely to get close to Schumacher's achievements in their careers and they certainly won't be running, even in the midfield, when they are at his age.
Standards now are far higher than in the 90s....
donna180 said:
I don't buy that. DC was always slow though - decimated by Haikkinen, Raikkonen and Webber by about the same margin so no real tail off in performance at all.... - He was 50% of Schumacher's main "opposition" in 1995...
Standards now are far higher than in the 90s....
Possibly, after May 1st 1994...Standards now are far higher than in the 90s....
Jasandjules said:
I don't know why MSC is not doing so well, it could be he is simply not as fit as a 25 year old and less able to take the G forces etc.. I really don't know.
I think some of it is down to the lack of testing. Schumacher's ability to develop a car is/was greater than that of some of his rivals. He was able to explain to his team what needed to be changed to make the car faster and maybe the endless testing he did when he was at Ferrari allowed him to find flaws in his own driving too. Without that he has to rely on simulators which have produced iffy results for all teams.Didn't he say sometime last year that he thought testing should be brought back?
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