Structural Engineer on parade?
Discussion
I'm wanting a garage extension (4 by 5 metres) utilising the garage wall and a house wall for 2 sides.
Due to a tree with a TPO the foundations would need to be 2.5 metres deep, so a raft is the way to go.
To keep Building Control happy I'm using an architect to draw up plans. He informed me that the raft will need to specified by a Structural Engineer. Fair do's thinks I.
Until I get a quote for £400, no doubt VAT on top.
WTF? Isn't there a laid down formula?
Like 100 hardcore, 100 concrete with xxx metal support, width of nib xxx for my required area?
Apparently he wants to do a site visit to check out the soil. Why not just allow for a poor base in the specification?
Surely a raft is a raft? Simple PC program to spit out a drawing in 35 nano seconds?
What with almost 500 to the Architect, 400 to the BCO and now 400 plus to the SE I'm thinking 6 tons of hard core and a shed from eBay.
Please feel free to educate me
Due to a tree with a TPO the foundations would need to be 2.5 metres deep, so a raft is the way to go.
To keep Building Control happy I'm using an architect to draw up plans. He informed me that the raft will need to specified by a Structural Engineer. Fair do's thinks I.
Until I get a quote for £400, no doubt VAT on top.
WTF? Isn't there a laid down formula?
Like 100 hardcore, 100 concrete with xxx metal support, width of nib xxx for my required area?
Apparently he wants to do a site visit to check out the soil. Why not just allow for a poor base in the specification?
Surely a raft is a raft? Simple PC program to spit out a drawing in 35 nano seconds?
What with almost 500 to the Architect, 400 to the BCO and now 400 plus to the SE I'm thinking 6 tons of hard core and a shed from eBay.
Please feel free to educate me
Because there are lots of variables with the ground conditions ie; water table, clay content and the location of nearby trees which all have a dramatic effect on the type of floor / foundation construction - it may be that a raft foundation is not suitable after all.
I think in the long run you would be thankful of appointing the structural engineer, as opposed to a couple of years later standing in your garage wondering why the walls are knackered, there is a massive crack in the middle of the floor and one end is four inches lower than the other.
Do it right, do it once etc etc etc.........
I think in the long run you would be thankful of appointing the structural engineer, as opposed to a couple of years later standing in your garage wondering why the walls are knackered, there is a massive crack in the middle of the floor and one end is four inches lower than the other.
Do it right, do it once etc etc etc.........
I'm in a similar situation to you - building a small extension.
I need to put a new steel in (according the building inspector yesterday) and the builder knows a structural engineer that is going to charge me £200 to do the calcs (7m length steel)
The bottom line is that so many things coudl go wrong, this is something that you just need to bite the bullet on. I reckon you could get it cheaper though.
I need to put a new steel in (according the building inspector yesterday) and the builder knows a structural engineer that is going to charge me £200 to do the calcs (7m length steel)
The bottom line is that so many things coudl go wrong, this is something that you just need to bite the bullet on. I reckon you could get it cheaper though.
As shredder has pointed out there are lots of variables and the Structural Engineer should design the most economical solution
The Structural Engineer is going to visit site undertake a bespoke calculation for your situation produce drawings/sketches for your builder and accept liability for the design for about 7 to 10 years
Assuming that they are Chartered Engineer they have most likely studied for a Masters Degree undertaken many years on the job training and passed a gruelling 7.5 hour exam
this gives them the opportunity to charge out their time at about £80 per hour
What hourly rate do solicitors/Accountants and even the guy that services your car charge
Puts the engineers fee into perspective methinks
The Structural Engineer is going to visit site undertake a bespoke calculation for your situation produce drawings/sketches for your builder and accept liability for the design for about 7 to 10 years
Assuming that they are Chartered Engineer they have most likely studied for a Masters Degree undertaken many years on the job training and passed a gruelling 7.5 hour exam
this gives them the opportunity to charge out their time at about £80 per hour
What hourly rate do solicitors/Accountants and even the guy that services your car charge
Puts the engineers fee into perspective methinks
Try this guy http://hausdesign.co.uk/
He's on pistonheads but can't remember his user name, He's done a couple of bits for me this year which I've been happy with
He's on pistonheads but can't remember his user name, He's done a couple of bits for me this year which I've been happy with
flyingjase said:
I'm in a similar situation to you - building a small extension.
I need to put a new steel in (according the building inspector yesterday) and the builder knows a structural engineer that is going to charge me £200 to do the calcs (7m length steel)
The bottom line is that so many things coudl go wrong, this is something that you just need to bite the bullet on. I reckon you could get it cheaper though.
Or spend that extra £200 on getting a Steel that will hold up a skyscraper!I need to put a new steel in (according the building inspector yesterday) and the builder knows a structural engineer that is going to charge me £200 to do the calcs (7m length steel)
The bottom line is that so many things coudl go wrong, this is something that you just need to bite the bullet on. I reckon you could get it cheaper though.
andye30m3 said:
Try this guy http://hausdesign.co.uk/
He's on pistonheads but can't remember his user name, He's done a couple of bits for me this year which I've been happy with
His user name is camp freddie if that helpsHe's on pistonheads but can't remember his user name, He's done a couple of bits for me this year which I've been happy with
It's all been said really. You just have to accept that you're over a barrel and take it like a man!!
IIRC the engineer I used charged somthing like £1500 in total for a 2 storey and side extension.
Insisted on pile foundations which meant I have about 5 grands worth of graft, steel and concrete buried in the ground (not including his fee).
Also bear in mind that if youy dont have structural calcs/design then building control won't gove you a completion certificate. This can become a big problem if you decide to move or need to claim of your house insurance if something happens and it's not signed off.
IIRC the engineer I used charged somthing like £1500 in total for a 2 storey and side extension.
Insisted on pile foundations which meant I have about 5 grands worth of graft, steel and concrete buried in the ground (not including his fee).
Also bear in mind that if youy dont have structural calcs/design then building control won't gove you a completion certificate. This can become a big problem if you decide to move or need to claim of your house insurance if something happens and it's not signed off.
flyingjase said:
True but not really their fault - unfortunately we live in a litigious world
I blame the Yanks, most things are their fault!!
I have had a few instances of steel frame contractors pricing from a Strutural Engineer's drawings and then offering me 10-20% savings for them to do their own design (and build).I blame the Yanks, most things are their fault!!
rsv gone! said:
bartesque said:
As shredder has pointed out there are lots of variables and the Structural Engineer should design the most economical solution
[contentious]Their design is rarely as economical as it could be as they like to protect their PI Insurance.[/contentious]I added after a little reflection as with all industries / professions there are good bad and indifferent.
Structural Engineering has become a very competitive market and if you develop a reputation for over designing your workload will soon dry up over the years we have saved our clients small fortunes by producing innovative and cost effective design solutions.
The problem is you are always 'costing money' in the eyes of the client as most people do not perceive the structure as adding value in the same way as other disciplines people are only interested in the structure when something goes wrong.
I have stopped counting the number of times we have got planning permission for a client and then bring up the next phase of regs and structural package, only to hear the immortal lines "its alright, my mates a builder and he's going to sort it all out"
Four months later when its all gone tits up the client expects you to be the middle man in the subsequent bun fight between building control / builder / neighbour / planners etc etc. And as this service is on a time charge basis it often ends up costing close to the fee proposal we put forward in the first place but a whole lot more grief.
Four months later when its all gone tits up the client expects you to be the middle man in the subsequent bun fight between building control / builder / neighbour / planners etc etc. And as this service is on a time charge basis it often ends up costing close to the fee proposal we put forward in the first place but a whole lot more grief.
bartesque said:
Then you are not using the right Structural Engineer then I am afraid
To give you some background, I work for a building contractor and have 15 years experience of D&B contracts. It has become almost an in-joke that as soon as we are awarded a contract, an Engineer's estimation of the amount of steel or concrete needed seems to increase exponentially.I will say that on one such occasion I pointed this out to an engineer - who told us to include 150kg/m³ steel in ground beams at tender stage but specified nearer 300kg/m³. He turned up at the office unannounced and handed over a personal cheque to cover the difference! It is regretful that the professionalism of the professions seems to be dying out (or, at least, retiring).
rsv gone! said:
To give you some background, I work for a building contractor and have 15 years experience of D&B contracts. It has become almost an in-joke that as soon as we are awarded a contract, an Engineer's estimation of the amount of steel or concrete needed seems to increase exponentially.
I will say that on one such occasion I pointed this out to an engineer - who told us to include 150kg/m³ steel in ground beams at tender stage but specified nearer 300kg/m³. He turned up at the office unannounced and handed over a personal cheque to cover the difference! It is regretful that the professionalism of the professions seems to be dying out (or, at least, retiring).
Are you based near to silverstone? I hope you do not mind but i have PM you I will say that on one such occasion I pointed this out to an engineer - who told us to include 150kg/m³ steel in ground beams at tender stage but specified nearer 300kg/m³. He turned up at the office unannounced and handed over a personal cheque to cover the difference! It is regretful that the professionalism of the professions seems to be dying out (or, at least, retiring).
Don;t often post replies, but this one is close to home...
I'm a Chartered Structural Engineer, and have worked for small local consultantcies, to large multi-discipline Consultantcies, have run design departments of steel fabricators, and now run the design department for a national contractor.
The role of an engineer is vital to a project. A good Engineer should be able to make economies within a project, whilst ensuring that all relevant standards are met. Assumptions of overdesign are commonplace within the industry, and I seem to spend an inordimate amount of time expalining to Clients why we do things the way we do. 'Its been like that for may years' is not an acceptable excuse!
Get an Engineer involved, about £400 is about right for a site visit, assesment, and design calcs / sketches / bar bending schedules, plus insurance contributions etc.
I'm a Chartered Structural Engineer, and have worked for small local consultantcies, to large multi-discipline Consultantcies, have run design departments of steel fabricators, and now run the design department for a national contractor.
The role of an engineer is vital to a project. A good Engineer should be able to make economies within a project, whilst ensuring that all relevant standards are met. Assumptions of overdesign are commonplace within the industry, and I seem to spend an inordimate amount of time expalining to Clients why we do things the way we do. 'Its been like that for may years' is not an acceptable excuse!
Get an Engineer involved, about £400 is about right for a site visit, assesment, and design calcs / sketches / bar bending schedules, plus insurance contributions etc.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff