e46 m3 after porsche 968 cs
Discussion
Need to be able to fit a toddler and baby in the back so CS has to go. Problem is that I'm drawn to the m3 as it ticks all the boxes but I'm struggling to get my head around depreciation. Last 3 cars I've had have not depreciated because they've all been over 15 yrs old.
Car will do about 5k per year and mainly station run and some weekend miles. Needs to have an x factor and a sense of occasion about it. Must be manual. I'm willing to take on running costs and insurance etc but the sub frame issue worries me but I can just get one that's sorted or by an 03 plate and make sure that get the floor done before I sell it
At the same time I'm thinking of an e30 325i sport coupe I expect residuals will be firmer but hard to track down a straight and rust free one. I'm not averse to a more spartan interior and kit car feel coming from 3 early nineties porsche
My heart tells me e46 as its one of those cars you have to have once in your life but head says hold out for the e30
Budget 10g and I still need to sell the CS
Car will do about 5k per year and mainly station run and some weekend miles. Needs to have an x factor and a sense of occasion about it. Must be manual. I'm willing to take on running costs and insurance etc but the sub frame issue worries me but I can just get one that's sorted or by an 03 plate and make sure that get the floor done before I sell it
At the same time I'm thinking of an e30 325i sport coupe I expect residuals will be firmer but hard to track down a straight and rust free one. I'm not averse to a more spartan interior and kit car feel coming from 3 early nineties porsche
My heart tells me e46 as its one of those cars you have to have once in your life but head says hold out for the e30
Budget 10g and I still need to sell the CS
If you're worried about depreciation the E46 M3 is not the car for you.
I would estimate the early ones will bottom at £6k in a few years time, later ones 10k.
It's a great all round car, mine is my only car. It will comfortably cruise around town and take passengers and driven below 5000rpm achieves surprisingly good fuel consumption.
If you want to drive it hard, it rewards in spades. The handling is sublime but make sure you get the rear trailing arm bushes changed and a decent set of tyres on it. A brake upgrade wouldn't hurt either (the original pads are awful).
Being naturally aspirated, the power is very linear, some people like this, others complain it lacks a shove. The overall vehicle weight is a tad higher than it should be so doesn't help.
I've no idea what a 968 is like, but it's probably the pinacle of old skool handling cars. the M3 is very good, but I wouldn't like to guess whether it's balance in cornering is better than a 968.
I would think to avoid depreciation you're better off buying a tidy low mileage E36 M3 as these have no bottomed out on the valuation curve.
I would estimate the early ones will bottom at £6k in a few years time, later ones 10k.
It's a great all round car, mine is my only car. It will comfortably cruise around town and take passengers and driven below 5000rpm achieves surprisingly good fuel consumption.
If you want to drive it hard, it rewards in spades. The handling is sublime but make sure you get the rear trailing arm bushes changed and a decent set of tyres on it. A brake upgrade wouldn't hurt either (the original pads are awful).
Being naturally aspirated, the power is very linear, some people like this, others complain it lacks a shove. The overall vehicle weight is a tad higher than it should be so doesn't help.
I've no idea what a 968 is like, but it's probably the pinacle of old skool handling cars. the M3 is very good, but I wouldn't like to guess whether it's balance in cornering is better than a 968.
I would think to avoid depreciation you're better off buying a tidy low mileage E36 M3 as these have no bottomed out on the valuation curve.
thanks for the above
have to admit i was and am drawn to the e46 as have previously had a 330i sport touring and loved it
i think the e46 looks good too
what is the perception of the e36 in the purists / enthusiasts view relative to the e30 and e46 incarnations...
id be plumping for the coupe in any event
have to admit i was and am drawn to the e46 as have previously had a 330i sport touring and loved it
i think the e46 looks good too
what is the perception of the e36 in the purists / enthusiasts view relative to the e30 and e46 incarnations...
id be plumping for the coupe in any event
thanks for the above
have to admit i was and am drawn to the e46 as have previously had a 330i sport touring and loved it
i think the e46 looks good too
what is the perception of the e36 in the purists / enthusiasts view relative to the e30 and e46 incarnations...
id be plumping for the coupe in any event
have to admit i was and am drawn to the e46 as have previously had a 330i sport touring and loved it
i think the e46 looks good too
what is the perception of the e36 in the purists / enthusiasts view relative to the e30 and e46 incarnations...
id be plumping for the coupe in any event
SignalGruen said:
Get an E39 M5 
Ive had a 968CS and have a M5 now. I would have gone for a E46 M3 but I wanted a 4 door car because my kids were fed up of sitting in the back of a RX8 that I had before. Cant really compare the 968 and M5 although they both have lots of torque. The M5 is very surprising on the Twisties though.
10K will get you a nice one but they are very costly to run (Im ashamed to say that I was looking at 130i M Sport in the classfieds yesterday, 30mpg is appealing at the moment)
CarbonBlackM5 said:
Ive had a 968CS and have a M5 now. I would have gone for a E46 M3 but I wanted a 4 door car because my kids were fed up of sitting in the back of a RX8 that I had before.
Cant really compare the 968 and M5 although they both have lots of torque. The M5 is very surprising on the Twisties though.
10K will get you a nice one but they are very costly to run (Im ashamed to say that I was looking at 130i M Sport in the classfieds yesterday, 30mpg is appealing at the moment)
I can't imagine that any M cars are anything less than costly to run (unless you buy new). I guess that fuel costs just depend on your mileage? Or has your funf proved more fragile and temperamental than a typical second hand E36/E46?Cant really compare the 968 and M5 although they both have lots of torque. The M5 is very surprising on the Twisties though.
10K will get you a nice one but they are very costly to run (Im ashamed to say that I was looking at 130i M Sport in the classfieds yesterday, 30mpg is appealing at the moment)
I realise that many on here claim that E36 and E46 are similar in performance terms, I simply cannot agree.
Straight line, OK fair enough, but in the twistys an E46 would destroy an E36. The handling is so much better.
In fact it's a better car in almost all respects. I had a 3.0L M3 and loved it, but the E46 has moved the game on considerably.
Straight line, OK fair enough, but in the twistys an E46 would destroy an E36. The handling is so much better.
In fact it's a better car in almost all respects. I had a 3.0L M3 and loved it, but the E46 has moved the game on considerably.
RC said:
what is the perception of the e36 in the purists / enthusiasts view relative to the e30 and e46 incarnations...
The purists view is that they are not as good/cool/desirable, the poor relation if you like, and this way pretty much the motoring hacks view at launch for what that is worth. The enthusiuasts view, dependes on the enthususiat, but I would say they have quite a strong following.I actually think the are great value for money/bang for the buck cars.
Maybe they are not as quick as E46 M3 on the twistys but is it alway about speed? E30 M3's prove it is clearly not.
I had a 968cs years back bought it for 11k, put 45k miles on it over 2 years and sold it for 10k, saw it advertised a year later for 11k.
You can't expect that from an m3, but buy sensibly and depreciation shouldn't be too extreme, my 04 car 38k miles was bought for 14k two years ago I've put 50k miles on it in two years and I'd guess its prob worth 9-10k which is acceptable considering the use I've had out of it.
The m3 is probably the closest "sensible car" to the 968 buy one you won't regret it.
You can't expect that from an m3, but buy sensibly and depreciation shouldn't be too extreme, my 04 car 38k miles was bought for 14k two years ago I've put 50k miles on it in two years and I'd guess its prob worth 9-10k which is acceptable considering the use I've had out of it.
The m3 is probably the closest "sensible car" to the 968 buy one you won't regret it.
I fail to see how anyone would take the depreciation on the E46 M3 as being a significant issue? Especially on what would be a 10 year old car for an early example - must be near the bottom of it's depreciation curve. How about buying a new E9X M3 for £55k and only realising £25k for it 3 years later!
It's true that values on these cars have taken a recent hit due to the pressure from fuel prices (but so have all cars with petrol engines over 1600cc!) but they will flatten out (or possibly even return) as the fuel price rises ease. These cars have an excllent reputation amongst car enthusiasts and as such I believe there will always be a strong demand for them, especially for good examples.
Like wise, the standard brakes (if working correctly with fresh, good quality brake fluid) are fine for road use. I am baffled by comments of 'awful'. So called upgraded pads might offer reduced fade at higher temperatures but this is far outweighed by the terrible feel and bite from cold these pads offer.
If you do decide an M3 is for you, try and find a cherished car that has been mechanically pampered (not always just a load of dealer stamps in the service schedule book). This will mean you shouldn't have to spend large £ sums on just getting things 'right'. From then on, maintanance shouldn't be too bad. Even the big Inspection I and II services can be had from about £400 to £500 from respected independants like Munich Legends (South) or Dareen Wood (North). They will even return 29mpg (ave) if driven sensibly.
As for the OP's comparison to a MK4 R32 Golf. I came from one of these into the M3 and while a very competent, stable, well put together car, it was in a different league to the E46 M3. Nice engine which pulled well from low revs but nowhere near as quick overall compared to the M3. Very firm ride that didn't 'flow' well down British roads. Interior well screwed together but not as plush as the M3. Overall I would say the M3 is a much better engineered performance car. The M3 is also more practical (vs 3 door R32 anyway).
Sorry if that goes on a bit but hope it's of some use to the OP!!
It's true that values on these cars have taken a recent hit due to the pressure from fuel prices (but so have all cars with petrol engines over 1600cc!) but they will flatten out (or possibly even return) as the fuel price rises ease. These cars have an excllent reputation amongst car enthusiasts and as such I believe there will always be a strong demand for them, especially for good examples.
Like wise, the standard brakes (if working correctly with fresh, good quality brake fluid) are fine for road use. I am baffled by comments of 'awful'. So called upgraded pads might offer reduced fade at higher temperatures but this is far outweighed by the terrible feel and bite from cold these pads offer.
If you do decide an M3 is for you, try and find a cherished car that has been mechanically pampered (not always just a load of dealer stamps in the service schedule book). This will mean you shouldn't have to spend large £ sums on just getting things 'right'. From then on, maintanance shouldn't be too bad. Even the big Inspection I and II services can be had from about £400 to £500 from respected independants like Munich Legends (South) or Dareen Wood (North). They will even return 29mpg (ave) if driven sensibly.
As for the OP's comparison to a MK4 R32 Golf. I came from one of these into the M3 and while a very competent, stable, well put together car, it was in a different league to the E46 M3. Nice engine which pulled well from low revs but nowhere near as quick overall compared to the M3. Very firm ride that didn't 'flow' well down British roads. Interior well screwed together but not as plush as the M3. Overall I would say the M3 is a much better engineered performance car. The M3 is also more practical (vs 3 door R32 anyway).
Sorry if that goes on a bit but hope it's of some use to the OP!!
Edited by JTR32 on Tuesday 17th May 21:27
JTR32 said:
I fail to see how anyone would take the depreciation on the E46 M3 as being a significant issue? Especially on what would be a 10 year old car for an early example - must be near the bottom of it's depreciation curve. How about buying a new E9X M3 for £55k and only realising £25k for it 3 years later!
Depreciation is all relative, and also relative to what you are acustom to, OP is selling a 968CS, a zero depreciation car, and am guessing he does not want to put £10k in to E46 M3 only to sell it in a couple of years and only get £7 back for it, which is probably what the return would be.Agree with what you say re R32's.
E30M3SE said:
Depreciation is all relative, and also relative to what you are acustom to, OP is selling a 968CS, a zero depreciation car, and am guessing he does not want to put £10k in to E46 M3 only to sell it in a couple of years and only get £7 back for it, which is probably what the return would be.
Well said that man. I'm not averse to taking a hit and expect the total cost of ownership to increase but that's fine. Im in a rare situation with the CS but i cant use it so no point in sitting on an appreciating asset thats of no use!The math you quote is kinda what im thinking of too but i really cant see a floor for the m3 whereas with the r32 i get a feeling that the market is more stable and residuals firmer... if you take 2 similar vintages then the r32 retains more value when compared to new than the e46.... i think list the e46 could be in excess of 45-50 whereas the r32 would be around 23... they could both be had for about 10g and even less if the seller is desperate...
its a real toughie because the driver in me says e46 any day of the week but then the pragmatist says r32... i think ill have to scratch the e30 and e36 off the list because i somehow feel more confident in the newer car with isofix with the little ones in the back...
RC said:
its a real toughie because the driver in me says e46 any day of the week but then the pragmatist says r32... i think ill have to scratch the e30 and e36 off the list because i somehow feel more confident in the newer car with isofix with the little ones in the back...
Having owned both the E46 is a definite step ahead of the R32 on pretty much all accounts.Either way you are going to lose money in depreciation.
Take care when looking at the prices of them as it can be deceptive. Unfortunately there is so much trash out there its barely believable. You need to get looking at a few locally and get a feel for what is on offer before you look seriously. The good ones always seem to command a premium as with any model.
My advice would be to find the nearest R32 and M3 for sale and go test drive them on the same day. And if its the SMG gearbox you want on the M3 then you really need a very long test drive as they do take a bit of getting used to at first.
Don't get me wrong, I understand completely that depreciation is all relative to the individual but the point I had intended to get across was I don't think the E46 M3 has or will suffer particularly worse than any other high performance / high fuel cost / costly to maintain type car.
If minimum depreciation is the major factor in purchase desicion, then I think the Mk1V R32 may suit very well. As mentioned, I was in one before the M3. I had the R32 for 15 months and 15,000 miles, bought for £10k and sold for £9.5k - all in the midst of an econimic crisis!
These are starting to attract a bit of 'cult' status I think, especially within the VAG fratnernity where good, low milage ones are becoming very desirable.
BUT, it isn't as good as the E46 M3 in most other aspects (IMO of course).
It's hard to decide what the main priorty is - good luck with your choice!
If minimum depreciation is the major factor in purchase desicion, then I think the Mk1V R32 may suit very well. As mentioned, I was in one before the M3. I had the R32 for 15 months and 15,000 miles, bought for £10k and sold for £9.5k - all in the midst of an econimic crisis!
These are starting to attract a bit of 'cult' status I think, especially within the VAG fratnernity where good, low milage ones are becoming very desirable.
BUT, it isn't as good as the E46 M3 in most other aspects (IMO of course).
It's hard to decide what the main priorty is - good luck with your choice!
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