Remove Timing Cover Engine in Situ Proposed Procedure
Discussion
The following procedure has kindly been suggested by another member, any comments before I start a tear down would be very welcome (an engine pull is not an option for me).
Remove cam covers, support engine and remove engine support brackets. Remove all the screws and nuts that secure the front cover. Remove the M6 bolts that secure the crankshaft pulley and the large bolt then knock off pulley. The nose of the crank is too long to let you get the cover past the chassis but the nose is detachable by removing the 10mm Allen bolt deep inside of it. Put the large nut loosely back on and you should be able to lever the nose forward by 7 or 8mm to free it from the crank then the front cover should lift off. If the nose does not move forward from the crank then it is probably the front cover that is stopping it. Lever the front cover lightly and it should bring the nose with it by the woodruff key. Apart from loosening some bolts do not use much force in any of the above operations!
Remove cam covers, support engine and remove engine support brackets. Remove all the screws and nuts that secure the front cover. Remove the M6 bolts that secure the crankshaft pulley and the large bolt then knock off pulley. The nose of the crank is too long to let you get the cover past the chassis but the nose is detachable by removing the 10mm Allen bolt deep inside of it. Put the large nut loosely back on and you should be able to lever the nose forward by 7 or 8mm to free it from the crank then the front cover should lift off. If the nose does not move forward from the crank then it is probably the front cover that is stopping it. Lever the front cover lightly and it should bring the nose with it by the woodruff key. Apart from loosening some bolts do not use much force in any of the above operations!
I did this on two engines when my crank snapped and I rebuilt it. I did this with the engine out and I can tell you it is an ar$e of a job:
1) the crank bolt I needed a 3 metre bar to get it to undo on one of the engines (it is a normal thread and not reversed)
2) you cannot get the front plate off with the woodruf key still in place and it was jammed into the crank on one engine and I spent most of a day trying to get it out.
3) you will need to undo the chain tensioner bolt on the righthand side of the plate. Once the plate is off the cog, held in place at the bottom by the front plate, the cog will drop (a joy to line up when trying to get the plate back on) and if you have forgotten to use a piece of wire to hold the chain in place when you have moved the plate forward a little, to take up the slack now the chain tensioner bolt has been removed, the chain will happily jump a tooth and you need to re-time the cams (another joy as there are no timing marks apart from a key on the fly wheel, not much use to you as the engine is in the car). Also you need to make a plate to hold all the cogs in place during retiming as the movement of the cog makes timing impossible!
This is a real issue if you are removing the front plate. Read up like mad. Somewhere on here is a photo of the chain wired up. I think is is one of Clive Ford's write ups (Clive was a great help to me when I was rebuilding my engine, as well as many others on here, one day I shall post up my rebuild and the endless photos, but I am rebuilding my gearbox at the moment
4) the spacers on the bottom of the plate are nuts and have to be undone. Belting it with a rubber hammer with them in place will not shift it
Hopefully the image below will help you with some of the issue above:
I'm sure there are a few other issues (the fact the chassis is in the way is only a minor one and others will be along with their thoughts. If I think of anything else I will post up.
Good luck and have fun
Andrew
1) the crank bolt I needed a 3 metre bar to get it to undo on one of the engines (it is a normal thread and not reversed)
2) you cannot get the front plate off with the woodruf key still in place and it was jammed into the crank on one engine and I spent most of a day trying to get it out.
3) you will need to undo the chain tensioner bolt on the righthand side of the plate. Once the plate is off the cog, held in place at the bottom by the front plate, the cog will drop (a joy to line up when trying to get the plate back on) and if you have forgotten to use a piece of wire to hold the chain in place when you have moved the plate forward a little, to take up the slack now the chain tensioner bolt has been removed, the chain will happily jump a tooth and you need to re-time the cams (another joy as there are no timing marks apart from a key on the fly wheel, not much use to you as the engine is in the car). Also you need to make a plate to hold all the cogs in place during retiming as the movement of the cog makes timing impossible!
This is a real issue if you are removing the front plate. Read up like mad. Somewhere on here is a photo of the chain wired up. I think is is one of Clive Ford's write ups (Clive was a great help to me when I was rebuilding my engine, as well as many others on here, one day I shall post up my rebuild and the endless photos, but I am rebuilding my gearbox at the moment 4) the spacers on the bottom of the plate are nuts and have to be undone. Belting it with a rubber hammer with them in place will not shift it
Hopefully the image below will help you with some of the issue above:
I'm sure there are a few other issues (the fact the chassis is in the way is only a minor one
and others will be along with their thoughts. If I think of anything else I will post up.Good luck and have fun
Andrew
Edited by APB_V8 on Monday 23 May 12:38
Edited by APB_V8 on Monday 23 May 16:19
Hi Andrew, many thanks that is extremely helpful.
1) my preferred method of undoing the crank bolt is to use the starter motor, but this scares some people.
2) I can imagine this could be a real show stopper, don't like the sound of that at all.
3) Heads need to come off, so re-timing is going to be 'interesting'. I'm wondering whether I can make any useful markings before disassembly, as far as I can make out reading the WSM there is no single safe position for the crank, it depends which bank you are working on - correct?
Clive has kindly sent me a link to his thread showing the reassembly plates for the cogs and tensioner http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
4) How hard can they be to remove (what could possibly go wrong)?
1) my preferred method of undoing the crank bolt is to use the starter motor, but this scares some people.
2) I can imagine this could be a real show stopper, don't like the sound of that at all.
3) Heads need to come off, so re-timing is going to be 'interesting'. I'm wondering whether I can make any useful markings before disassembly, as far as I can make out reading the WSM there is no single safe position for the crank, it depends which bank you are working on - correct?
Clive has kindly sent me a link to his thread showing the reassembly plates for the cogs and tensioner http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
4) How hard can they be to remove (what could possibly go wrong)?
Extra 300 Driver said:
For the sake of all the stress why not just pull the engine? Think of all the other little jobs you could do at the same time.
Last time I did a top end rebuild on a V8, I was working on the street, half a mile from the flat where I lived, in the middle of the winter (with no light, electricity or local storage other than the boot). 
This time I have the luxury of a parking space in a shared garage, however if I turn up with an engine hoist and and engine stand, I will really be trying the patience of my neighbours, not withstanding the fact that there simply won't be room for the engine stand, the car, and the workbench.
As I am a tenant I have to be very sensitive to my neighbours concerns, but I am lucky that some are also PHers and support my endeavours.
I have considered the option of renting a lockup large enough to do the job, but assuming it will take at least two months, the cost in London (assuming I could find somewhere nearby) would be prohibitive.
On the plus side, the AJP seems to be a less complex engine, the engine bay appears quite spacious, and new parts are significantly cheaper.
ukkid35 said:
Last time I did a top end rebuild on a V8, I was working on the street, half a mile from the flat where I lived, in the middle of the winter (with no light, electricity or local storage other than the boot).
This time I have the luxury of a parking space in a shared garage, however if I turn up with an engine hoist and and engine stand, I will really be trying the patience of my neighbours, not withstanding the fact that there simply won't be room for the engine stand, the car, and the workbench.
As I am a tenant I have to be very sensitive to my neighbours concerns, but I am lucky that some are also PHers and support my endeavours.
I have considered the option of renting a lockup large enough to do the job, but assuming it will take at least two months, the cost in London (assuming I could find somewhere nearby) would be prohibitive.
On the plus side, the AJP seems to be a less complex engine, the engine bay appears quite spacious, and new parts are significantly cheaper.
Im not having a go mate, sorry if it seemed that way, and if you get it done then fantastic!This time I have the luxury of a parking space in a shared garage, however if I turn up with an engine hoist and and engine stand, I will really be trying the patience of my neighbours, not withstanding the fact that there simply won't be room for the engine stand, the car, and the workbench.
As I am a tenant I have to be very sensitive to my neighbours concerns, but I am lucky that some are also PHers and support my endeavours.
I have considered the option of renting a lockup large enough to do the job, but assuming it will take at least two months, the cost in London (assuming I could find somewhere nearby) would be prohibitive.
On the plus side, the AJP seems to be a less complex engine, the engine bay appears quite spacious, and new parts are significantly cheaper.
I have been in the same situation as you, with cars and planes. Often when you think you can get something done quicker it actually takes longer, which isnt what you need when its raining, blowing a gale and theres no tea! Just think of all options first, because once you start then youre totally committed.
Some of the issues you are going to have:
This is the part of the chassis that is going to be in the way:
You are going to need to remove the main crank bolt and the four hex head bolts:
Then undo the hex head screw and remove the pulley base (you can also see the spacer/nuts behind the mounting brackets:
Need to get the woodruf key out:
As the front plate cannot get pass it due to the lip where the front oil seal is seated:
Also here you can see the chain tensioner bolt and notice the two rows of nuts holding your head on, the main torque nuts on top and the smaller nuts under the exhaust ports:
Be sure to keep the tension on that chain with some wire before removing the front plate (you can see it through the removed oil filler:
And why was I taking mine apart:
But that was last year, this year:
It gets me away from the wife, and that makes me happy
This is the part of the chassis that is going to be in the way:
You are going to need to remove the main crank bolt and the four hex head bolts:
Then undo the hex head screw and remove the pulley base (you can also see the spacer/nuts behind the mounting brackets:
Need to get the woodruf key out:
As the front plate cannot get pass it due to the lip where the front oil seal is seated:
Also here you can see the chain tensioner bolt and notice the two rows of nuts holding your head on, the main torque nuts on top and the smaller nuts under the exhaust ports:
Be sure to keep the tension on that chain with some wire before removing the front plate (you can see it through the removed oil filler:
And why was I taking mine apart:
But that was last year, this year:
It gets me away from the wife, and that makes me happy
Edited by APB_V8 on Thursday 26th May 01:21
itiejim said:
The best way to identify TDC without lifting the heads is to use kids "bubble liquid" over the spark plug holes - when the bubble gets to it's biggest you are at TDC. It's an amazingly accurate method and quite easy to do.
This was also recommended to me by Tanguero, and I am a complete convertMy last attempt at timing the engine was good, rather than perfect
I have made marks on the Aircon pulley in conjunction with a custom made pointer
The pulley diameter is 177mm and the distance between the marks I made is 106.5mm
This equates to an angle of 73.5deg, but the engine is a 75deg V so the distance should be 107.5mm
Not perfect, but not too bad
Edited by ukkid35 on Sunday 3rd February 16:38
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