Mk 1 Golf GTi or Capri Injection?
Discussion
Hi all,
For my next car I'm torn between one of these two. Two completely different cars but both seem to fit my needs:
1) Must be a hatch as I occasionally have to cart stuff around
2) Both come fitted with rear seatbelts and should have plenty of room in the back for our two small children
3) Both pretty quick
4) Both have the potential to be a good investment
5) Both have good spares availability (it won't be a daily driver but it will be my only car as I work from home)
6) Should be able to find a good example of either for 5k
What do you guys think? Any comments from biased owners or other comments welcome please. Any other suggestions would be good as long as they meet the criteria above.
Cheers,
Dario
For my next car I'm torn between one of these two. Two completely different cars but both seem to fit my needs:
1) Must be a hatch as I occasionally have to cart stuff around
2) Both come fitted with rear seatbelts and should have plenty of room in the back for our two small children
3) Both pretty quick
4) Both have the potential to be a good investment
5) Both have good spares availability (it won't be a daily driver but it will be my only car as I work from home)
6) Should be able to find a good example of either for 5k
What do you guys think? Any comments from biased owners or other comments welcome please. Any other suggestions would be good as long as they meet the criteria above.
Cheers,
Dario
I really like both of those cars, but I am biased towards the Capri 2.8I, because I had one and loved it, it's rear wheel drive and it makes a great V6 noise!
But, I have to admit that the boot is a little shallow, especially compared to the Golf, so I suppose it depends what stuff you need to carry around!
Other suggestion would be a Porsche 944, preferably an S2.
But, I have to admit that the boot is a little shallow, especially compared to the Golf, so I suppose it depends what stuff you need to carry around!
Other suggestion would be a Porsche 944, preferably an S2.
Thanks for the replies. I'm verging on the Golf at the moment, mainly as I think it will be cheaper to run in terms of spare parts prices. I just can't seem to find an unmolested 1.8 (Campaign preferably) without ridiculous miles, I realise mileage isn't too much of an issue but it feels nice to have a car that hasn't gone round the clock!
I'm not too bothered about fuel consumption and there is just something so cool about a Capri. Probably because my father had a 1969 white 1.6 from new and he sold out and bought a Morris 1800 when I was 3 in 1976 I think. Even at that age I knew that a Capri was cooler than a Landcrab - I hated that strip speedo!
I have considered and been to view a few 944s, I don't think there is enough room in the back really.
Hadn't thought about the Corrado, probably too modern and can you get classic insurance on one?
Cheers,
Dario
I'm not too bothered about fuel consumption and there is just something so cool about a Capri. Probably because my father had a 1969 white 1.6 from new and he sold out and bought a Morris 1800 when I was 3 in 1976 I think. Even at that age I knew that a Capri was cooler than a Landcrab - I hated that strip speedo!
I have considered and been to view a few 944s, I don't think there is enough room in the back really.
Hadn't thought about the Corrado, probably too modern and can you get classic insurance on one?
Cheers,
Dario
you'll need to be, or quickly get used to, driving a RWD especially in light rain after a long dry period
there's no reason why a Capri can't hold the road well if the car and driving are both in good condition but if either are not at the best it could be entertaining at worst not nice to think about
to get either of your choices in good condition you'll need to put good money and search a bit
as an alternative and the fact that a Capri is so different to even a Mk1 Golf how about considering a 2.0 litre Capri or even a 1.6 then if you like it moving on to a 2.8
even the last Capris are a throw back to '60s cars so different to a Golf
you'll be able to have rear seat belts fitted even if they're not already fitted
as for limited mileage avoid it if you can or get it as high as possible (problem for an old f*rt like me)
the more you drive the car the more you'll learn about it and learn to drive it
have a look at all owners clubs for both cars for information, test drive as many good examples as you can some out of your price range to see how good the cars should be and if you need to increase your budget
there's no reason why a Capri can't hold the road well if the car and driving are both in good condition but if either are not at the best it could be entertaining at worst not nice to think about
to get either of your choices in good condition you'll need to put good money and search a bit
as an alternative and the fact that a Capri is so different to even a Mk1 Golf how about considering a 2.0 litre Capri or even a 1.6 then if you like it moving on to a 2.8
even the last Capris are a throw back to '60s cars so different to a Golf
you'll be able to have rear seat belts fitted even if they're not already fitted
as for limited mileage avoid it if you can or get it as high as possible (problem for an old f*rt like me)
the more you drive the car the more you'll learn about it and learn to drive it
have a look at all owners clubs for both cars for information, test drive as many good examples as you can some out of your price range to see how good the cars should be and if you need to increase your budget
Thanks for the advice "na". I think the way forward is to test drive a few. No problem with the rear wheel drive, I used to run a tuned Sunbeam Lotus as a daily driver. If I could afford to buy and run one I would defintely buy another.
I'll see if I can find some cars for sale reasonably near to where I live and go and have a look at them.
I'll see if I can find some cars for sale reasonably near to where I live and go and have a look at them.
niagra said:
Thanks for the advice "na". I think the way forward is to test drive a few. No problem with the rear wheel drive, I used to run a tuned Sunbeam Lotus as a daily driver. If I could afford to buy and run one I would defintely buy another.
I'll see if I can find some cars for sale reasonably near to where I live and go and have a look at them.
no problem, I wasn't sure if you were a youngster that had learnt to drive and only ever driven a FWDI'll see if I can find some cars for sale reasonably near to where I live and go and have a look at them.
if it's been a long time since you've owned your Sunbeam it might be somethings in the classic car world have improved and others got a lot worse, plus you might remember the good bits more than the bad of your previous ownership
5/6 years ago I ran a 2.0S as a daily and it was very practical but having driven a neighbour's 2.8 then I'd say that's the model for you
I'm old enough to have riden in but not wealthy enough to own or driven a Mk1 Gti so it's a car I can appreciate but it's not a particularly big car especially by modern standards probably the same sort of size as the smaller of the VW range now (a guess)
both cars have good following so you should be able to get plenty of information from owners (no doubt with some contradictory)
I'm guessing you'd very much like a good example of a 2.8, good luck, post if you either buy model
Edited by na on Tuesday 24th May 15:25
Most parts for the capri will be cheap, some stuff is interchangeable between the 2.8i and lesser models, very few parts are expensive. Engines and gearboxes are generally pretty strong, although the later 5 speed gearbox can fail. There are plenty of second hand boxes around for sensible money if this does happen.
Watch out for the rear axle, if its a LSD unit (fitted as standard to 'injection special' models and well worth having) it will cost a lot to replace if it is knackered as the escort rally boys have had all the spare ones by now.
Anything mechanical is pretty easy to sort out and parts are readily available. The K Jet mechanical injection is the same as on some Merc's bmw's etc and is generally reliable. If it goes wrong you are best off going to a specialist as they are quite complex to set up properly (imho at least having tried !) If the car is running well then there is usually no need to fiddle with it.
Body panels can be very expensive if you want original ford wings for instance, these are as much as £400 each, IF you can find one. Pattern panels are often crap quality to be blunt. some panels such as front slam panel / valance are not obtainable new at all. Buy the best car bodywork wise you can afford. at 5k you should have no problem finding a straight original car without any serious rust issues.
Look out for rust, capris are not the worst cars of their era for rust, but they are still bad ! aside from cosmetic rust which can occur pretty much everywhere, you need to look for structural rust which can be very expensive to sort if you dont want to weld it yourself.
Examine the following areas carefully :
- A posts, especially near the door hinges, and above the top hinge.
- Front suspension strut tops, V6 models have an extra plate welded over the top of the inner wing for strength, and also an reinforcement underneath the inner wing. unfortunately these are both a moisture trap. any sign of rust on the top of the plate as seen in the engine bay will be hiding a LOT more underneath
- Rear spring hangers (the front part behind the rear sill) these can be a bit tricky to repair this section if it is rotten.
- The front of the sills, ford in their infinite wisdom put the drainage channels from the sunroof into the front of the sill. also some cars were not fitted with sill protectors inside the arch, so the front of sill area collects road dirt and holds moisture. there is several layers of metal in this area and it holds moisture and again is tricky to fix if rusty.
I personally think it is best to keep a 2.8i pretty original, they are still a decent drivers car in standard form. The brakes are weak, but good quality pads can help a bit with this. I would however swap the standard 13" wheels to 15's, use a 195 / 50 profile tyre to keep the overall diameter the same. you dont want to make the gearing any taller as it is already very long on a 2.8i.
going to bigger wheels / lower profile tyres will give you slightly sharper handling, and there is a much better choice of tyres in this size. When fitted with decent quality modern rubber it will handle just fine, ignore people who say its a handful in the wet, this is nonsense quite frankly. drive sensibly and you will have no issues.
the 2.8i engine is not very tuneable, due to the K jet and also because of the crap 2 port heads in 2.8 v6. You could get a turbo technics conversion for these when new, which was a dealer fit option at the time, which by all accounts is a good match for the engine, though I havent driven one. your budget at 5k might stretch to a nice capri with one of these conversions if you can find one.
I hope this helps, I enjoyed owning my 2.8i for a couple of years as a daily driver, aside from mpg of about 22-25 it was no problem, and good fun to boot
Watch out for the rear axle, if its a LSD unit (fitted as standard to 'injection special' models and well worth having) it will cost a lot to replace if it is knackered as the escort rally boys have had all the spare ones by now.
Anything mechanical is pretty easy to sort out and parts are readily available. The K Jet mechanical injection is the same as on some Merc's bmw's etc and is generally reliable. If it goes wrong you are best off going to a specialist as they are quite complex to set up properly (imho at least having tried !) If the car is running well then there is usually no need to fiddle with it.
Body panels can be very expensive if you want original ford wings for instance, these are as much as £400 each, IF you can find one. Pattern panels are often crap quality to be blunt. some panels such as front slam panel / valance are not obtainable new at all. Buy the best car bodywork wise you can afford. at 5k you should have no problem finding a straight original car without any serious rust issues.
Look out for rust, capris are not the worst cars of their era for rust, but they are still bad ! aside from cosmetic rust which can occur pretty much everywhere, you need to look for structural rust which can be very expensive to sort if you dont want to weld it yourself.
Examine the following areas carefully :
- A posts, especially near the door hinges, and above the top hinge.
- Front suspension strut tops, V6 models have an extra plate welded over the top of the inner wing for strength, and also an reinforcement underneath the inner wing. unfortunately these are both a moisture trap. any sign of rust on the top of the plate as seen in the engine bay will be hiding a LOT more underneath
- Rear spring hangers (the front part behind the rear sill) these can be a bit tricky to repair this section if it is rotten.
- The front of the sills, ford in their infinite wisdom put the drainage channels from the sunroof into the front of the sill. also some cars were not fitted with sill protectors inside the arch, so the front of sill area collects road dirt and holds moisture. there is several layers of metal in this area and it holds moisture and again is tricky to fix if rusty.
I personally think it is best to keep a 2.8i pretty original, they are still a decent drivers car in standard form. The brakes are weak, but good quality pads can help a bit with this. I would however swap the standard 13" wheels to 15's, use a 195 / 50 profile tyre to keep the overall diameter the same. you dont want to make the gearing any taller as it is already very long on a 2.8i.
going to bigger wheels / lower profile tyres will give you slightly sharper handling, and there is a much better choice of tyres in this size. When fitted with decent quality modern rubber it will handle just fine, ignore people who say its a handful in the wet, this is nonsense quite frankly. drive sensibly and you will have no issues.
the 2.8i engine is not very tuneable, due to the K jet and also because of the crap 2 port heads in 2.8 v6. You could get a turbo technics conversion for these when new, which was a dealer fit option at the time, which by all accounts is a good match for the engine, though I havent driven one. your budget at 5k might stretch to a nice capri with one of these conversions if you can find one.
I hope this helps, I enjoyed owning my 2.8i for a couple of years as a daily driver, aside from mpg of about 22-25 it was no problem, and good fun to boot
Edited by OllieC on Tuesday 24th May 15:28
just editing my last post and an excellent post is done by olliec
personally I would disagree with changing wheels and tyres to (much) bigger and wider if the car is to be used as a daily as in the wet and snow the Capri can already be enough 'fun'
plus the smaller wheels and higher profile tyres add to the softer/more pliable/more comfortable for wife and kids/ getting over all the speed bumps
there as predicted by some no doubt I'm the first to contradict
personally I would disagree with changing wheels and tyres to (much) bigger and wider if the car is to be used as a daily as in the wet and snow the Capri can already be enough 'fun'
plus the smaller wheels and higher profile tyres add to the softer/more pliable/more comfortable for wife and kids/ getting over all the speed bumps
there as predicted by some no doubt I'm the first to contradict
na said:
just editing my last post and an excellent post is done by olliec
personally I would disagree with changing wheels and tyres to (much) bigger and wider if the car is to be used as a daily as in the wet and snow the Capri can already be enough 'fun'
plus the smaller wheels and higher profile tyres add to the softer/more pliable/more comfortable for wife and kids/ getting over all the speed bumps
there as predicted by some no doubt I'm the first to contradict
Yep its a valid point about the comfort aspect, you will indeed get a harsher ride with lower profile tyres.personally I would disagree with changing wheels and tyres to (much) bigger and wider if the car is to be used as a daily as in the wet and snow the Capri can already be enough 'fun'
plus the smaller wheels and higher profile tyres add to the softer/more pliable/more comfortable for wife and kids/ getting over all the speed bumps
there as predicted by some no doubt I'm the first to contradict
The 15" alloys with 195 / 50 tyres (as for fitted to the run out 'brooklands' capris) are actually narrower than the stock 13" 205 / 60. I found the 195 / 50's better in the wet, but this could just be down to better tyres, the old 205's were not exactly a premium brand !
OllieC said:
Yep its a valid point about the comfort aspect, you will indeed get a harsher ride with lower profile tyres.
The 15" alloys with 195 / 50 tyres (as for fitted to the run out 'brooklands' capris) are actually narrower than the stock 13" 205 / 60. I found the 195 / 50's better in the wet, but this could just be down to better tyres, the old 205's were not exactly a premium brand !
at the risk of mutual respect, I didn't realise the 13" tyres were that low and wide (by '60s standard were even end Capris sit more than '90s) as I did no research it shows the value of advice from current ownersThe 15" alloys with 195 / 50 tyres (as for fitted to the run out 'brooklands' capris) are actually narrower than the stock 13" 205 / 60. I found the 195 / 50's better in the wet, but this could just be down to better tyres, the old 205's were not exactly a premium brand !
in my 'usual advice' on buying classics I always put replace tyres more than 6 years old regardless of the tread depth left and of course getting the correct tyres for model, use and driving style is very important
personally I like a little bit looseness in dry and very good in wet as far as tyre grip goes
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1986-FORD-CAPRI-INJECTION-TU...
How about this baby? Right colour as well. Pity it's on eBay, it only runs until Sunday and I don't have time to get down to Essex by then.
How about this baby? Right colour as well. Pity it's on eBay, it only runs until Sunday and I don't have time to get down to Essex by then.
things like 'it has been sitting in a dry garage for the last 15 years' conjure up thought of many potential stored up problems (no pun intended) plus is a dry garage also ventilated
for a car like this a phrase like 'it's a good example for the year' is a little under whelming’
if you wanted to give benefit of doubt you might think that possibly theseller isn’t the best at advertising and he has put ‘I had to bring it home 6 months ago so I've had time to bring it back to life’
check out – ‘replace the bumpers as they do have surface rust. I have seem them for 80 quid each new but probably less second hand’ as I know you can get cheap replacement but Ford stamped stuff is very expensive
‘A more modern stereo was fitted which means dash was adjusted to fit but this can be put back to it's original state by purchasing replacements parts if need be’ again check this out
for a car like this a phrase like 'it's a good example for the year' is a little under whelming’
if you wanted to give benefit of doubt you might think that possibly theseller isn’t the best at advertising and he has put ‘I had to bring it home 6 months ago so I've had time to bring it back to life’
check out – ‘replace the bumpers as they do have surface rust. I have seem them for 80 quid each new but probably less second hand’ as I know you can get cheap replacement but Ford stamped stuff is very expensive
‘A more modern stereo was fitted which means dash was adjusted to fit but this can be put back to it's original state by purchasing replacements parts if need be’ again check this out
niagra said:
No problem with the rear wheel drive, I used to run a tuned Sunbeam Lotus as a daily driver. If I could afford to buy and run one I would defintely buy another.
Excellent, another ex-Sunbeam-Lotus owner
And as someone who's also spent quite a bit of time at the wheel of RS3100 Capri's, I'd say get the Crapi.
I must admit, I'd agree with the earlier suggestion of a late 3.0S as well..... if you can find one.
That's going to be the problem though, finding decent Capri's.
Rust is the biggest issue, and I suspect, parts for the Golf will be a LOT easier to get as well.
And you wouldn't want a Sunbeam-Lotus again, parts supply is quite an issue now, which is one of the reasons I sold mine 5 or so years ago (and I'd owned mine for nearly 17 years)
The other thing with the Capri is that you'd really want to have it on agreed value insurance, and if it's your only car that will be an issue.
I think in your situation, the Golf is the better and more practical option.
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