All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace
Discussion
The programme itself didn't describe forum posting as "commodification". It was quoting a theorist who called the activity that in the 1990s. If it is commodification, when do I start geting paid?
What the programme did show is how a small group of slightly barking eggheads can have a profound efect on world affairs when they insinuate themselves into influential positions.
I thought the programme was good - but it will keep conspiracy theorists gabbling for quite a while.
What the programme did show is how a small group of slightly barking eggheads can have a profound efect on world affairs when they insinuate themselves into influential positions.
I thought the programme was good - but it will keep conspiracy theorists gabbling for quite a while.
Eric Mc said:
The programme itself didn't describe forum posting as "commodification". It was quoting a theorist who called the activity that in the 1990s. If it is commodification, when do I start geting paid?
What the programme did show is how a small group of slightly barking eggheads can have a profound efect on world affairs when they insinuate themselves into influential positions.
Eric I took it that the meaning was, by example, that Haymarket are making their millions from our twitterings on this very forum, that is where the value goes. Or did I miss something?What the programme did show is how a small group of slightly barking eggheads can have a profound efect on world affairs when they insinuate themselves into influential positions.
That's what I took it for too - I was just being smart
.
Does it matter though - as long as people find the experience enjoyable?
In fact, the very fact that the posters DON'T get remunerated for their contributions and the fact that we don't pay the forum for access means that it is, to me, the very opposite of commodification.
We do it for the fun.
Would you say making a phone call was "commodification" - or posting a letter - both methods of communication that we generally have to pay for on a transaction by transaction basis.
.Does it matter though - as long as people find the experience enjoyable?
In fact, the very fact that the posters DON'T get remunerated for their contributions and the fact that we don't pay the forum for access means that it is, to me, the very opposite of commodification.
We do it for the fun.
Would you say making a phone call was "commodification" - or posting a letter - both methods of communication that we generally have to pay for on a transaction by transaction basis.
lost in espace said:
Eric I took it that the meaning was, by example, that Haymarket are making their millions from our twitterings on this very forum, that is where the value goes. Or did I miss something?
Yep, basically the website/network providers make their millions, and we are encouraged to 'package ourselves up' into neat little chunks to satisfy the whole process. Whereas we used to define ourselves in terms of our family and friends and our wider community, we now have an 'online persona' where we create a marketing friendly profile on a website and post what we hope to be mildly entertaining soundbites to increase our net worth. Our perception of our value is tied into how many complete strangers we've never met we can get to agree with us.Nonsense.
It's no different to talking to a group in a pub. I get as much enjoyment from debating with people who DON'T agree with me. I'm not on here seeking approval and I don't value myself any more if it looks like I have said something people like. I get more kick out of correcting people - and I actually enjoy being corrected too - if I make an error in a statement of fact.
Is that commodification? I call it conversation and discussion.
The main thing I gleaned from the programme is that far too many pretentious pr**ks have had far too much influence on society - especially in the US.
It's no different to talking to a group in a pub. I get as much enjoyment from debating with people who DON'T agree with me. I'm not on here seeking approval and I don't value myself any more if it looks like I have said something people like. I get more kick out of correcting people - and I actually enjoy being corrected too - if I make an error in a statement of fact.
Is that commodification? I call it conversation and discussion.
The main thing I gleaned from the programme is that far too many pretentious pr**ks have had far too much influence on society - especially in the US.
Sure, but that's not the behaviour of millions of people on places like Beebo, MySpace and Facebook - that are only successful because their users neatly fall into line and click away hoping to get a high score on the friends list. Facebook is valued at $65 billion because it is stuffed full of neatly pacified users, for whom Facebook is the internet.
Even though you treat this more like a conversation in a pub, you're still a benefit to Haymarket as you help shape the community and make it attractive to visit. So why aren't you having that conversation in a pub, where you could directly benefit from friendship and company of real physical people? Wouldn't a neighbour who lends you their lawnmower be more useful than mild respect from someone you will never, ever meet?
I'm just as guilty of course, but the point is that places like Facebook have taken over as definitions of community for many people. And the sheer weight of numbers makes social engineers and over-excited computer geeks think that somehow we've gained a new power to alter the world, rather than giving up the ability to act individually and away from the herd mentality.
Even though you treat this more like a conversation in a pub, you're still a benefit to Haymarket as you help shape the community and make it attractive to visit. So why aren't you having that conversation in a pub, where you could directly benefit from friendship and company of real physical people? Wouldn't a neighbour who lends you their lawnmower be more useful than mild respect from someone you will never, ever meet?
I'm just as guilty of course, but the point is that places like Facebook have taken over as definitions of community for many people. And the sheer weight of numbers makes social engineers and over-excited computer geeks think that somehow we've gained a new power to alter the world, rather than giving up the ability to act individually and away from the herd mentality.
Tuna said:
Sure, but that's not the behaviour of millions of people on places like Beebo, MySpace and Facebook - that are only successful because their users neatly fall into line and click away hoping to get a high score on the friends list. Facebook is valued at $65 billion because it is stuffed full of neatly pacified users, for whom Facebook is the internet.
Even though you treat this more like a conversation in a pub, you're still a benefit to Haymarket as you help shape the community and make it attractive to visit. So why aren't you having that conversation in a pub, where you could directly benefit from friendship and company of real physical people? Wouldn't a neighbour who lends you their lawnmower be more useful than mild respect from someone you will never, ever meet?
I'm just as guilty of course, but the point is that places like Facebook have taken over as definitions of community for many people. And the sheer weight of numbers makes social engineers and over-excited computer geeks think that somehow we've gained a new power to alter the world, rather than giving up the ability to act individually and away from the herd mentality.
And you can claim that argument for a pub conversation too.Even though you treat this more like a conversation in a pub, you're still a benefit to Haymarket as you help shape the community and make it attractive to visit. So why aren't you having that conversation in a pub, where you could directly benefit from friendship and company of real physical people? Wouldn't a neighbour who lends you their lawnmower be more useful than mild respect from someone you will never, ever meet?
I'm just as guilty of course, but the point is that places like Facebook have taken over as definitions of community for many people. And the sheer weight of numbers makes social engineers and over-excited computer geeks think that somehow we've gained a new power to alter the world, rather than giving up the ability to act individually and away from the herd mentality.
Commercial interests will always try to attract people to places where they can be "exploited" for commercial reasons, be it a pub or an internet chat room.
My main concern about internet activity is not the exploitation of its users by commercial interests, but the fact that some people my subjugate their real lives for virtual lives.
Like most human inventions, the internet has both plus and minus points. On the whole, I think the plus points outweigh the negative ones.
Hugo a Gogo said:
well that's your decision
Exactly.Indeed, the internet user can make use of the internet for his own exploitation if he wants to. I would hazard a guess that I have made more money from my internet activities than Haymarket or anyone else. And that is without even trying very hard (no business web site, no paid for internet advertising, no direct sales pitches etc).
As I keep saying, it is no more than just another conduit which allows people to communicate. If someone wants to consider conversing as a form of "commodification", that's their interpretation of what is going on.
I just call it "talking".
does it matter if it's called 'commodification' then?
the fact is, people are making money out of internet chat room users (ad revenue, mainly), those users and the chat forums are now a commodity for the people making that money - just as the readers of a free newspaper are a commodity
whether they care or not, is another matter
the fact is, people are making money out of internet chat room users (ad revenue, mainly), those users and the chat forums are now a commodity for the people making that money - just as the readers of a free newspaper are a commodity
whether they care or not, is another matter
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