Anyone driven a 458 and and F430?
Discussion
I drove a 458 a few months ago and thought it was absolutely stunning - the noise, the power and gearchange. I'd never driven a car with a flappy paddle before and wasn't sure what to expect, having heard stories of jerkiness and it taking something away from the drive. However, even in race mode, once I had practiced a bit, I got on well with the paddles and generally fell in love with the car.
There are two problems though; ideally I want a Spider and I'm not sure I can stomach the depreciation, having never bought a new car before.
I've seen a keenly priced F430 and am thinking of taking a look at it later this week. It seems a good, but not ideal, spec, though I doubt I will ever see the perfect spec for me. It's also in resale Rosso and has low km (registered Jan 07 14,000km).
Am I going to be disappointed with it compared to the 458? Looks wise I think they are both stunners to me, so that's not an issue. I'm more worried about the gear shift feeling agricultural than anything. How do they compare? Does the 458 feel a lot faster than the F430 when accelerating? I didn't get anywhere near the limits of the 458 so I won't know what I'm missing with the handling.
If it was at a main dealers I would just go and explain the situation and ask for a drive. It's not though and given I'll probably have to conduct the discussions in German (live in Switzerland) and don't really want to mess them around, I'm not sure what to do...
So thoughts on comparing the two?
There are two problems though; ideally I want a Spider and I'm not sure I can stomach the depreciation, having never bought a new car before.
I've seen a keenly priced F430 and am thinking of taking a look at it later this week. It seems a good, but not ideal, spec, though I doubt I will ever see the perfect spec for me. It's also in resale Rosso and has low km (registered Jan 07 14,000km).
Am I going to be disappointed with it compared to the 458? Looks wise I think they are both stunners to me, so that's not an issue. I'm more worried about the gear shift feeling agricultural than anything. How do they compare? Does the 458 feel a lot faster than the F430 when accelerating? I didn't get anywhere near the limits of the 458 so I won't know what I'm missing with the handling.
If it was at a main dealers I would just go and explain the situation and ask for a drive. It's not though and given I'll probably have to conduct the discussions in German (live in Switzerland) and don't really want to mess them around, I'm not sure what to do...
So thoughts on comparing the two?
I don’t own either but have driven both. They are like chalk and cheese. The 458 is almost too clever for its own good. In auto mode the car feels almost as easy as an old style American Torque Converter Auto. When you want to get more involved the race setting produces a gear change that is very slick and lightning fast.
The 430 feels a generation and a half older which in effect it is. You get occasional jerkiness at low speeds and a much more agricultural feel. For a paddle shift it is still pretty good but does feel a bit old school compared to the latest transmissions
The 430 feels a generation and a half older which in effect it is. You get occasional jerkiness at low speeds and a much more agricultural feel. For a paddle shift it is still pretty good but does feel a bit old school compared to the latest transmissions
Find a dealer which has both a 458 and a 430 so you can do back to back test drives and decide for yourself.
The 458 is going to be a better car but its also twice the money and no doubt has a lot more of a way to fall over the next few years than a keenly priced 430.
I have had my 430 for 72 hours now and you can't seperate me from the grin on my face - superb superb drivers car, I cannot fault it. You would not catch me sticking another £120k in to get a 458 at this point.. but maybe this car is my stop gap while the 458's drop some money and then one day I will be lucky enough to compare the two from an owners point of view.
Some are lucky enough to not worry too much about money when buying their stable of cars, while some of us have to take money and depreciation quite seriously and I guess when comparing these two cars you need to decide which camp you are in!
The 458 is going to be a better car but its also twice the money and no doubt has a lot more of a way to fall over the next few years than a keenly priced 430.
I have had my 430 for 72 hours now and you can't seperate me from the grin on my face - superb superb drivers car, I cannot fault it. You would not catch me sticking another £120k in to get a 458 at this point.. but maybe this car is my stop gap while the 458's drop some money and then one day I will be lucky enough to compare the two from an owners point of view.
Some are lucky enough to not worry too much about money when buying their stable of cars, while some of us have to take money and depreciation quite seriously and I guess when comparing these two cars you need to decide which camp you are in!
Streetrod said:
The 430 feels a generation and a half older which in effect it is. You get occasional jerkiness at low speeds and a much more agricultural feel. For a paddle shift it is still pretty good but does feel a bit old school compared to the latest transmissions
On the other hand the F1 on a F430 feels miles ahead than the Egear on my 07 Gallardo.traxx said:
A more interesting question is would you buy a 458 coupe or a 16M for 20%less?
I really like the looks of the 16M
I thought the 16M might raise its pretty head. I'd love one (and have my beady eye on AndrewD's), but the only one on sale here in Switzerland is pretty much the same price as a new 458 and nearly double the price of the F430 I'm interested in. I really like the looks of the 16M
UH-Matt said:
Streetrod said:
The 430 feels a generation and a half older which in effect it is. You get occasional jerkiness at low speeds and a much more agricultural feel. For a paddle shift it is still pretty good but does feel a bit old school compared to the latest transmissions
On the other hand the F1 on a F430 feels miles ahead than the Egear on my 07 Gallardo.UH-Matt said:
Find a dealer which has both a 458 and a 430 so you can do back to back test drives and decide for yourself.
The problem is finding somewhere that has both and a reasonably priced F430. As you'll see if you click the link below, there doesn't seem to be a lot of logic to second hand car pricing in Switzerland. The cheapest one at a main dealer is older, silver, has nearly treble the mileage and is 18% more expensive (although it does have a 2 year instead of one year warranty). http://www.autoscout24.ch/as24web/List.aspx?wl=1&a...
eyebeebe said:
I thought the 16M might raise its pretty head. I'd love one (and have my beady eye on AndrewD's), but the only one on sale here in Switzerland is pretty much the same price as a new 458 and nearly double the price of the F430 I'm interested in.
As a neighbour have you chatted to andrew about this ? I am pretty certain he chose the 16m over a 458 as he thought it was more of a riot and the 458 too good and made it all too easy. Taken in isolation i cant imagine that many people would be unhappy with a 430. The f1 in it is great and miles ahead of what went before. I would avoid driving them back to back though.Edited by jackal on Tuesday 31st May 11:35
As others have said, yes the 458 is better than the 430, the 430 is as much better than the 360 but people will still choose a 360 over a 430 if they think it's better value for the performance and for what they're looking for in a car. Just because the 458 is here doesn't make the 430 any less of a car than it was, it was and still is an absolutely amazing car, as is the 360 and 355 and 328 and 308 all in their own special way 
If you can afford a 458 and think it's good value then go for it, if you try a 430 and think it's 80% a 458 for less than 50% of the cost then that might be the ideal solution for you, you need to drive a 430 and decide from there.
John..
If you can afford a 458 and think it's good value then go for it, if you try a 430 and think it's 80% a 458 for less than 50% of the cost then that might be the ideal solution for you, you need to drive a 430 and decide from there.
John..
jackal said:
As a neighbour have you chatted to andrew about this ? I am pretty certain he chose the 16m over a 458 as he thought it was more of a riot and the 458 too good and made it all too easy. Taken in isolation i cant imagine that many people would be unhappy with a 430. The f1 in it is great and miles ahead of what went before. I would avoid driving them back to back though.
Not specifically spoken to him on the 430 vs. 458 as I would class the 16m as a bit of a different beast to the regular 430. He's actually the one who convinced me to check out the 458 at the dealers, after I was drooling over one at Geneva. I thought we were just going out for a hoon lol. He did suggest a 430 spider when I said I would miss the rag top of the Porsche too much though. Edited by jackal on Tuesday 31st May 11:35
I think his view on the 458 is changing a bit. He had one on track at Fiorano and seemed more impressed with it when I spoke to him last. I may well drag him to check out the 430 I'm looking at, as it's not too far from him.
UH-Matt said:
It does not necessarily need to be a pair of cars that you are interested in, just utilise a dealer network to test drive both models, even if one or the other are not quite the right price/spec for you, it will allow you to answer your question about comparison of the two...
I know where you are coming from Matt, but I'm a bit funny about wasting people's time when I don't really have any intention of buying. steelej said:
As others have said, yes the 458 is better than the 430, the 430 is as much better than the 360 but people will still choose a 360 over a 430 if they think it's better value for the performance and for what they're looking for in a car. Just because the 458 is here doesn't make the 430 any less of a car than it was, it was and still is an absolutely amazing car, as is the 360 and 355 and 328 and 308 all in their own special way
If you can afford a 458 and think it's good value then go for it, if you try a 430 and think it's 80% a 458 for less than 50% of the cost then that might be the ideal solution for you, you need to drive a 430 and decide from there.
John..
Sorry for the multiple posts. Making one large one on the phone is a bit of a ballache!If you can afford a 458 and think it's good value then go for it, if you try a 430 and think it's 80% a 458 for less than 50% of the cost then that might be the ideal solution for you, you need to drive a 430 and decide from there.
John..
John I think you have hit the nail on the head. Particularly regarding the 80% for 50% argument.
I think it's time to start making enquiries and report back.
eyebeebe said:
UH-Matt said:
It does not necessarily need to be a pair of cars that you are interested in, just utilise a dealer network to test drive both models, even if one or the other are not quite the right price/spec for you, it will allow you to answer your question about comparison of the two...
I know where you are coming from Matt, but I'm a bit funny about wasting people's time when I don't really have any intention of buying. Driven 355, 360, 360CS, 430, Scud and a 458 - IMO the leap forward in performance and technology is greater in the 458 than any other time a model has been introduced in the last 15 years.
As mentioned above - is it too good ? Where does it all end - a car that will drive itself automatically with less and less driver input.
As mentioned above - is it too good ? Where does it all end - a car that will drive itself automatically with less and less driver input.
eyebeebe said:
UH-Matt said:
It does not necessarily need to be a pair of cars that you are interested in, just utilise a dealer network to test drive both models, even if one or the other are not quite the right price/spec for you, it will allow you to answer your question about comparison of the two...
I know where you are coming from Matt, but I'm a bit funny about wasting people's time when I don't really have any intention of buying. I spent hours with David from HR Owen Ferrari St Albans over a period of weeks, and he ended up selling me a car last week that had just come in to stock... it pays off for the dealers as long as you are seriously wanting to make a purchase eventually
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