Sales - Cars or Recruitment?
Discussion
Hi guys, I have a question for you guys in sales or recruitment out there. I would like to hear from you to get some opinions and see if my research is correct and to try decide which way I will go.
I've got to get a job soon up here in Edinburgh and am having a hard time deciding what to do. I'm in my mid 30's and have been in prestige car sales for 3 years in Australia and was very good at it. It would be my easiest role for me to get back into prestige sales over here. I would only be interested in the big brands like BMW, MB, Audi etc. I believe from my research that I could earn about a £15,000 base and be earning £35-40,000 in my first year with potential to be on 50+ once you are established and getting repeat business. You would also get a nice company car with this role too which is a massive perk in this current climate. Only downside is the long hours and weekends. Most dealers are open until 7pm which is a big day but some here are closed on Sundays which is good but I think most are open on Sundays from 11-5pm. I think you would get 6 days off a month and work about 60 hours a week. Another downside is career progression. You are really either only sales exec, then sales manger (which can make less than good salesmen) the dealer principal which is a rare achievement.
Sound about right?
On the other hand you have recruitment. I would have to enter this role as a trainee. From what I can find out you get a base of about £20,000. It would take you 3 months of training before you could start billing. It would then take a few months of you billing to get up to a level high enough to get paid commissions on it. So I believe it would be a 6 month minimum to earn anything over base. I have been told the goal is to double your base in your first year and then hit £50-60,000 by year three. Does that sound about right or are those London earnings? I have a hard time believing I would earn that much in Edinburgh. Am I right? You also don't get a car allowance until you are a experienced and qualified recruiter. You also spend a lot of time pure cold calling which can be very hard and get you down fairly easily. I am good on the phone but speaking to someone who is interested in cars in the first place is a much easier thing to do. Hours are long still but are usually 5 days a week so you could potentially have a better family life. Also if you are very good a recruitment you have a lot of career progression opportunities too.
Sorry for the long post but I need to make a decision soon and it is always hard to know who to believe when employers are "selling" you the role and a lot of employers pull the OTE figures out of the sky. I think recruiting is a lot harder than people realise too (even though I have never done it)
Looking forward to hearing from you all soon and any advice is greatly appreciated.
I've got to get a job soon up here in Edinburgh and am having a hard time deciding what to do. I'm in my mid 30's and have been in prestige car sales for 3 years in Australia and was very good at it. It would be my easiest role for me to get back into prestige sales over here. I would only be interested in the big brands like BMW, MB, Audi etc. I believe from my research that I could earn about a £15,000 base and be earning £35-40,000 in my first year with potential to be on 50+ once you are established and getting repeat business. You would also get a nice company car with this role too which is a massive perk in this current climate. Only downside is the long hours and weekends. Most dealers are open until 7pm which is a big day but some here are closed on Sundays which is good but I think most are open on Sundays from 11-5pm. I think you would get 6 days off a month and work about 60 hours a week. Another downside is career progression. You are really either only sales exec, then sales manger (which can make less than good salesmen) the dealer principal which is a rare achievement.
Sound about right?
On the other hand you have recruitment. I would have to enter this role as a trainee. From what I can find out you get a base of about £20,000. It would take you 3 months of training before you could start billing. It would then take a few months of you billing to get up to a level high enough to get paid commissions on it. So I believe it would be a 6 month minimum to earn anything over base. I have been told the goal is to double your base in your first year and then hit £50-60,000 by year three. Does that sound about right or are those London earnings? I have a hard time believing I would earn that much in Edinburgh. Am I right? You also don't get a car allowance until you are a experienced and qualified recruiter. You also spend a lot of time pure cold calling which can be very hard and get you down fairly easily. I am good on the phone but speaking to someone who is interested in cars in the first place is a much easier thing to do. Hours are long still but are usually 5 days a week so you could potentially have a better family life. Also if you are very good a recruitment you have a lot of career progression opportunities too.
Sorry for the long post but I need to make a decision soon and it is always hard to know who to believe when employers are "selling" you the role and a lot of employers pull the OTE figures out of the sky. I think recruiting is a lot harder than people realise too (even though I have never done it)
Looking forward to hearing from you all soon and any advice is greatly appreciated.
I do recruitment and find it very rewarding. I don't mind cold calling and during my brief car sales career it drove me mad to just wait for people to call or come and view a car.
But not everyone is like me.
I would say give yourself a year in recruitment, and there's nothing stopping you going back to car sales in future if it doesn't work for you.
Yes it's a "wasted" year in the career progression sense, but as you said career progression in car sales is slow and haphazard and making dealer principal might be 10 years away even if you're killing it from day one.
And frustrating as it would be to find yourself in a recruitment job you don't like after a couple of years, surely it would be equally annoying to spend the next few years selling BMWs and Audis to recruitment consultants and wondering what it would have been like.
But not everyone is like me.
I would say give yourself a year in recruitment, and there's nothing stopping you going back to car sales in future if it doesn't work for you.
Yes it's a "wasted" year in the career progression sense, but as you said career progression in car sales is slow and haphazard and making dealer principal might be 10 years away even if you're killing it from day one.
And frustrating as it would be to find yourself in a recruitment job you don't like after a couple of years, surely it would be equally annoying to spend the next few years selling BMWs and Audis to recruitment consultants and wondering what it would have been like.
I'm on my blackberry so its tricky to pen a decent indepth response to this.
Ive been in recruitment for around 5 years now and to be honest you don't have to be that talented to earn £70k+. There is decent scope for progression and ultimately if you have entreprenerial spirit you can start your own empire, which is easier than starting your own car sales business.
Things to think about are- the market you go into eg public sector is on its arse at the moment and it's hard to grab some market share from the established businesses.
Also our "products" are our people. People change their mind at the drop of a hat and moving jobs is a big deal for some people, so essentially its a two way sell- not the case with selling oranges/cars/washing machines etc?
Ive been in recruitment for around 5 years now and to be honest you don't have to be that talented to earn £70k+. There is decent scope for progression and ultimately if you have entreprenerial spirit you can start your own empire, which is easier than starting your own car sales business.
Things to think about are- the market you go into eg public sector is on its arse at the moment and it's hard to grab some market share from the established businesses.
Also our "products" are our people. People change their mind at the drop of a hat and moving jobs is a big deal for some people, so essentially its a two way sell- not the case with selling oranges/cars/washing machines etc?
I had this very decision when I was offered both jobs, went with car sales and didn't get on with it, hours are too long, it's very unpredictable. And sadly Someone will go 2 miles up the road to save £20 no matter how many hours you've spent with them.
I still might give recruitment a crack one day once I've learnt enough about my industry.
I still might give recruitment a crack one day once I've learnt enough about my industry.
This is true to a degree but it depends on your dealership. If you work in prestige the attitude is slightly different and customers still shop on price but usually they want more than that and will buy from you and the dealership if you are competitive. Half the battle is working for the best dealership in your area. It is hard if you are at a small local prestige dealership and a big one is within 30 mins drive and has 3 times the stock level and can beat you in price due to the volume they do. You have to pick the right place to work.
I believe this is the same in recruitment. If you work for Hudson, Hays, Michael Page etc it has to put you at a better starting point then working for ABC Recruitment. I may be wrong but I think it this would be true.
I believe this is the same in recruitment. If you work for Hudson, Hays, Michael Page etc it has to put you at a better starting point then working for ABC Recruitment. I may be wrong but I think it this would be true.
AJS- said:
I do recruitment and find it very rewarding. I don't mind cold calling and during my brief car sales career it drove me mad to just wait for people to call or come and view a car.
But not everyone is like me.
I would say give yourself a year in recruitment, and there's nothing stopping you going back to car sales in future if it doesn't work for you.
Yes it's a "wasted" year in the career progression sense, but as you said career progression in car sales is slow and haphazard and making dealer principal might be 10 years away even if you're killing it from day one.
And frustrating as it would be to find yourself in a recruitment job you don't like after a couple of years, surely it would be equally annoying to spend the next few years selling BMWs and Audis to recruitment consultants and wondering what it would have been like.
That is really good advice. The one advantage of car sales is that your product is there already and people call you (which is half the battle won) so you make a mixture of your business from walk-ins, repeat business, internet enquiries and cold calling (even though they aren't entirely cold as you get their number from your database).But not everyone is like me.
I would say give yourself a year in recruitment, and there's nothing stopping you going back to car sales in future if it doesn't work for you.
Yes it's a "wasted" year in the career progression sense, but as you said career progression in car sales is slow and haphazard and making dealer principal might be 10 years away even if you're killing it from day one.
And frustrating as it would be to find yourself in a recruitment job you don't like after a couple of years, surely it would be equally annoying to spend the next few years selling BMWs and Audis to recruitment consultants and wondering what it would have been like.
Recruitment (from my limited knowledge) is you do a lot of cold calling especially when you are new. No one comes to you. It is not until you have really built your desk that you will have repeat business and people calling you. Much, much harder.
if you don't like working weekends but want to work selling cars then you probably need to look at Corporate sales, which I think pays around £25k base and the same again in bonus if you hit the numbers. However you would be best placed to achieve this role if you did a year in recruitment doing cold calling and b2b selling as this would give you an advantage over most applicants for corporate sales roles.
roles are few and far between though.
roles are few and far between though.
NickHKent said:
I'm on my blackberry so its tricky to pen a decent indepth response to this.
Ive been in recruitment for around 5 years now and to be honest you don't have to be that talented to earn £70k+. There is decent scope for progression and ultimately if you have entreprenerial spirit you can start your own empire, which is easier than starting your own car sales business.
Things to think about are- the market you go into eg public sector is on its arse at the moment and it's hard to grab some market share from the established businesses.
Also our "products" are our people. People change their mind at the drop of a hat and moving jobs is a big deal for some people, so essentially its a two way sell- not the case with selling oranges/cars/washing machines etc?
Hi Nick,Ive been in recruitment for around 5 years now and to be honest you don't have to be that talented to earn £70k+. There is decent scope for progression and ultimately if you have entreprenerial spirit you can start your own empire, which is easier than starting your own car sales business.
Things to think about are- the market you go into eg public sector is on its arse at the moment and it's hard to grab some market share from the established businesses.
Also our "products" are our people. People change their mind at the drop of a hat and moving jobs is a big deal for some people, so essentially its a two way sell- not the case with selling oranges/cars/washing machines etc?
Thanks for your reply and I really appreciate any advice you can give me. My background before sales was building so I would probably try property and construction if I get in. Who would you work for and who wouldn't you? (You can PM me if you want).
How hard is it to make commissions? I know you are saying £70+ is possible if you are capable but does that apply for Scotland too or more the London market?
One other question is about time management in recruitment. When you are selling cars there are only so many cars you can sell, prepare, deliver, demonstrate at pick up (which takes an hour for BMW but some dealerships now have a dedicated delivery person so you can get back to sales), sort the yard, make your calls etc. How does it work in recruitment? I mean if you have to be on the phone doing a lot of cold calls and winning new business most of the time and even be out on the road how do you find the time to search job sites for CV's, interview candidates, and place them properly? Do you run out of time to fit them in?
I imagine when you are being assessed by the mangers it will be on the amount of calls you make and how much new business you bring in and placements. What if you did have a couple of listings but spent heaps of time interviewing?
Keen to hear from you on this!
The amount of cold calling varies somewhat agency to agency, but as a rule I'd say yes, expect a lot of it. I don't really mind it to be honest, but I know some people do.
Time managemnent is difficult. My old firm kept to "core hours" typically 9:30 - 12:00 then 1:30 - 5:00, and set these hours aside for being on the phone. Phone times was acutally one of the KPIs they measured. Sometimes meetings or interviews have to be done in those times. The important thing is to balance it so you don't let one activity slip too much, and give yourself even more work the following week/month/quarter.
But any manager should be able to help you with this.
It sounds to me like you're slightly worried about the stereotype of the shouty, KPI obsessed recruitment manager who times every trip to the urinal. While they do exist, they are not all agencies. I would say they are mostly the big, low end firms who hire 20 graduates at a time and expect half of them to quit in the first 6 months.
Go to a small, professional agency and I don't think you should get too much of that. It's certainly a style of management I wouldn't appreciate.
Time managemnent is difficult. My old firm kept to "core hours" typically 9:30 - 12:00 then 1:30 - 5:00, and set these hours aside for being on the phone. Phone times was acutally one of the KPIs they measured. Sometimes meetings or interviews have to be done in those times. The important thing is to balance it so you don't let one activity slip too much, and give yourself even more work the following week/month/quarter.
But any manager should be able to help you with this.
It sounds to me like you're slightly worried about the stereotype of the shouty, KPI obsessed recruitment manager who times every trip to the urinal. While they do exist, they are not all agencies. I would say they are mostly the big, low end firms who hire 20 graduates at a time and expect half of them to quit in the first 6 months.
Go to a small, professional agency and I don't think you should get too much of that. It's certainly a style of management I wouldn't appreciate.
The amount of money you make is dependant on a number of different factors:
Volume of approaches
Quality of approaches
Luck (although I don't like using that word)
If you have all 3 of these then you'll absolutely fly, you'll still make money even if you only have two. To a degree you make your own luck, but by luck I mean you securing a role that enables you to recruit into a growing market rather than one that is shrinking at a rate of knots.
The example I quoted of one of my team making £70k was a girl who simply had volume in her locker and nothing else. She wasn't particularly intelligent, some of her approaches were shocking but her sheer coverage and persistance made her (& me!) money.
Like I mentioned you need to pick your market carefully and make sure that it is going to trend the right way for the next few years as there is no point establishing yourself only for the market to go down the pan.
You mentioned construction- at what level would you be looking at? Trades & Labour £3/hr margins or more senior stuff? There was another girl in my office who was earning £90k/yr at the age of 19 working trades and labour but there is absolutely no way I could do that.
AJS is right in the fact that the big brands are more likely to chain you to a desk and batter you until you make the right number of calls, but they can also be a great place to learn what (and what not) to do. Personally I would avoid all the high street agencies and approach a brand like Michael Page or Badenoch & Clark if I was looking for my first recruitment job. They tend to have the time to invest in you, they pay decent basic salaries so you can live whilst you build your business and they also have a brand big enough to have establish accounts. You wouldn't want to position yourself in a business that is 100% based around business development for your 1st recruitment job- it takes time to learn what to do, along with learning the market that you are placing into.
Volume of approaches
Quality of approaches
Luck (although I don't like using that word)
If you have all 3 of these then you'll absolutely fly, you'll still make money even if you only have two. To a degree you make your own luck, but by luck I mean you securing a role that enables you to recruit into a growing market rather than one that is shrinking at a rate of knots.
The example I quoted of one of my team making £70k was a girl who simply had volume in her locker and nothing else. She wasn't particularly intelligent, some of her approaches were shocking but her sheer coverage and persistance made her (& me!) money.
Like I mentioned you need to pick your market carefully and make sure that it is going to trend the right way for the next few years as there is no point establishing yourself only for the market to go down the pan.
You mentioned construction- at what level would you be looking at? Trades & Labour £3/hr margins or more senior stuff? There was another girl in my office who was earning £90k/yr at the age of 19 working trades and labour but there is absolutely no way I could do that.
AJS is right in the fact that the big brands are more likely to chain you to a desk and batter you until you make the right number of calls, but they can also be a great place to learn what (and what not) to do. Personally I would avoid all the high street agencies and approach a brand like Michael Page or Badenoch & Clark if I was looking for my first recruitment job. They tend to have the time to invest in you, they pay decent basic salaries so you can live whilst you build your business and they also have a brand big enough to have establish accounts. You wouldn't want to position yourself in a business that is 100% based around business development for your 1st recruitment job- it takes time to learn what to do, along with learning the market that you are placing into.
Well I never! G'day Big Tav!
Looks like we are almost exactly mirroring our career paths! Just back from Melbourne last week to finally validate my visa. I saw a few people a couple of times, so fingers crossed that something works out...then back out in a few weeks or so. Interesting thought re our last chat in January, the exchange rate is getting even worse. I struggled to get 68 pence to the dollar this time and the general consensus is that it will settle around 80 pence for the next 12-18 months.
For me, that is too good an opportunity to miss. I have no debts of any consequence here, will have very little, in terms of living expenses (other than £14 a pack of bloody ciggies!) there. Only fly in the ointment is that it's now nearly winter...but hey ho!
Good to see you still posting and bloody good luck up in Edinburgh. If you do need a pointer, I have a good friend that used to run( ie DP) various dealerships (nut not BMW), that may know a few contacts in BMW land.
Looks like we are almost exactly mirroring our career paths! Just back from Melbourne last week to finally validate my visa. I saw a few people a couple of times, so fingers crossed that something works out...then back out in a few weeks or so. Interesting thought re our last chat in January, the exchange rate is getting even worse. I struggled to get 68 pence to the dollar this time and the general consensus is that it will settle around 80 pence for the next 12-18 months.
For me, that is too good an opportunity to miss. I have no debts of any consequence here, will have very little, in terms of living expenses (other than £14 a pack of bloody ciggies!) there. Only fly in the ointment is that it's now nearly winter...but hey ho!
Good to see you still posting and bloody good luck up in Edinburgh. If you do need a pointer, I have a good friend that used to run( ie DP) various dealerships (nut not BMW), that may know a few contacts in BMW land.
Hi mate! Great to hear from you again! It's good to hear that you are doing well and that Australia is working out for you. Nice work on the Visa. Are you going to get back into cars over there? Shame you are heading into winter but it will heat up again before you know it. Make the most of the exchange rate and if you are going to come home again make sure you bring home nice nest egg! Cars seem so cheap here when you are paying in Aussie dollars!
Might give you a shout about your contacts soon!
Might give you a shout about your contacts soon!
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