Shot ourself in the Foot?
Discussion
Just watching the news about the apache's on Hms Ocean now im sure their doing a great job. It does seem to me, that a squadron of harriers on invincible could do a better job. my reason for thinking this because hms ocean was not far off the coast so the jets could spent a longer time over the targets. They could react quicker to changing development (aka a satellite picking up colonel gaddafi going outside for a cheeky fag). Carry more weapons? Safer for the pilots?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I am worried by the Apache deployment for a number of reasons, not least vulnerability to enemy AD assets.
The French do have a carrier, with actual planes on it, and they've sent their helicopters in too, so there must be a fairly convincing argument for them. I'd not want to be going that slow and low if there was any chance of being shot at though.left to right said:
left to right said:
that a squadron of harriers on invincible could do a better job.
If you put a squadron of Harriers aboard her now, they'd have them boiled down for coke-cans before you could turn your back.
eharding said:
left to right said:
left to right said:
that a squadron of harriers on invincible could do a better job.
If you put a squadron of Harriers aboard her now, they'd have them boiled down for coke-cans before you could turn your back.
What assets are the frogs using, did i hear right that they had some gaz's deployed.
I seem to remember when we used them in he falklands they worked out that it was something silly like only 6 rounds to bring each one down.
Dont how long are stuff is going to be there for as Ocean etc is due back in 3 weeks
I seem to remember when we used them in he falklands they worked out that it was something silly like only 6 rounds to bring each one down.
Dont how long are stuff is going to be there for as Ocean etc is due back in 3 weeks
The Apaches are part of Cameron's Operation 'Save Face'.
They've carried out a mission with all the TV cameras around. I doubt they'll do much else. Even the French say a carrier with Harriers would make a huge difference. The Government, like all previous Politicians, won't change their mind because they'll be seen to have made a mistake and that won't do, will it.
They've carried out a mission with all the TV cameras around. I doubt they'll do much else. Even the French say a carrier with Harriers would make a huge difference. The Government, like all previous Politicians, won't change their mind because they'll be seen to have made a mistake and that won't do, will it.
Elroy Blue said:
The Apaches are part of Cameron's Operation 'Save Face'.
He should never have put his (our) face in danger.The rebels, these unknown bandits who we are supporting for the simple reason that because Gadaffi is 'bad' they must be 'good', are no fighting force. They will sit back and let us do the work for them. In that respect they are smarter than we are...
aeropilot said:
No, because clearly you don't understand why we're (UK/French) now using Apache/Tigers instead of fast-air.
Oooh, I know the answer to this one...Because we don't have any fast air that can reasonably used around that part of the world and... because the Frogs want us to do some of the work, instead of relying on them to do everything.
aeropilot said:
No, because clearly you don't understand why we're (UK/French) now using Apache/Tigers instead of fast-air.
If you're buying into the 'better selective targeting' argument, you're a Politician's dream. Their use is a Political statement, nothing more.Edited by Elroy Blue on Sunday 5th June 12:36
Is it possible this Government has at least realised that while the British Taxpayer was prepared to fund the best military aircraft and vessels in Europe that the rest of Europe would naturally look to the UK to lead operations and take the highest financial, tactical and bodycount costs?
Oh look, the French have better resources than us. Hey Mr Frenchy, we'll go in your planes/ships on this one.
Probably b
ks but just a thought
Oh look, the French have better resources than us. Hey Mr Frenchy, we'll go in your planes/ships on this one.
Probably b
ks but just a thought Elroy Blue said:
aeropilot said:
No, because clearly you don't understand why we're (UK/French) now using Apache/Tigers instead of fast-air.
If you're buying into the 'better selective targeting' argument, you're a Politician's dream. Their use is a Political statement, nothing more.
This.
Surely it's a bit of both. Noone on the ground having to designate targets is a political bonus. On the flip side when you're dealing with a situation where it may not be entirely clear at first glance who the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' are, the apaches observation abilities would help a lot.
Of course all that must be seriously compromised.. I wonder how much time they are actually getting on station given the risk of parking ocean anywhere close enough to the coast for SSM or even artillery risks...
Of course all that must be seriously compromised.. I wonder how much time they are actually getting on station given the risk of parking ocean anywhere close enough to the coast for SSM or even artillery risks...
VeeFour said:
aeropilot said:
No, because clearly you don't understand why we're (UK/French) now using Apache/Tigers instead of fast-air.
Oooh, I know the answer to this one...Because we don't have any fast air that can reasonably used around that part of the world and... because the Frogs want us to do some of the work, instead of relying on them to do everything.
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