Installing an LS1

[02PRUV]

Ok guys I'm sick of waiting for my engine to turn up. It still hasn't left the US. So yesterday I bought an LS1 to throw in for rego. I got it in today and gearbox on and went to put the exhaust on and found that the headers foul on the A/C compressor. There is no way the headers will go on with the A/C pump there. Have others had this issue at all?

[pilbeam_mp62]

Yes - I am sure that a lot of people who just "throw" an engine in, without thinking about it, will have encountered similar clearance issues - I am sure that you will be able to solve it though, with all your experience.

Regards

[crafty]

What headers are you using?

If you want to do something just to get you by, Monaro cast iron manifolds will fit.

[Graham-P]

pilbeam_mp62 said:

Yes - I am sure that a lot of people who just "throw" an engine in, without thinking about it, will have encountered similar clearance issues - I am sure that you will be able to solve it though, with all your experience.

Regards

Well that was helpful...............

Where is the ac mounted? Think you'll find most of ours are mounted low down but have to be spaced out a bit so the back of the compressor misses the engine mount. As Crafty said use the cast manifolds. If it's just a stop gap engine why fit the AC, just leave it off 'till you get the US one, or do you need it for the test you're going to?

[02PRUV]

Graham-P said:

Well that was helpful...............

Where is the ac mounted? Think you'll find most of ours are mounted low down but have to be spaced out a bit so the back of the compressor misses the engine mount. As Crafty said use the cast manifolds. If it's just a stop gap engine why fit the AC, just leave it off 'till you get the US one, or do you need it for the test you're going to?

Using the Ultima supplied LS headers. The A/C compressor is mounted in the factory low mount spot. Rego require A/C for the demisting test. But I will have the same issues with the US engine cause I'm using the same LS1 accessories on it. Yes the cast headers would get me by now but I may as well get it right on this one so I know it fits on the new one as well.

[02PRUV]

pilbeam_mp62 said:

Yes - I am sure that a lot of people who just "throw" an engine in, without thinking about it, will have encountered similar clearance issues - I am sure that you will be able to solve it though, with all your experience.

Regards

What am I meant to be thinking about? I thought the idea was for an LS engine to fit and headers supplied to fit. Shouldn't require any thinking. I'm sure I could solve the issue but I didn't think I would need to solve something that should fit.

[deadscoob]

pilbeam_mp62 said:

Yes - I am sure that a lot of people who just "throw" an engine in, without thinking about it, will have encountered similar clearance issues - I am sure that you will be able to solve it though, with all your experience.

Regards

Why the 4rsey comment?

I'm glad when most builders ask a question they don't get responses like that. What a friendly place this would be if they did.....

[crafty]

Is it the Ultima AC unit or the LS1 unit?

The LS AC units have a few types, one with the AC hose manifold on the rear and one with the AC manifold on the side..... both Monaro/GTO units.

I have one of those, which is spaced off the block so that it clears the engine mount..... but am not running factory headers

Post pics, maybe we can help.

[pilbeam_mp62]

deadscoob said:

pilbeam_mp62 said:

Yes - I am sure that a lot of people who just "throw" an engine in, without thinking about it, will have encountered similar clearance issues - I am sure that you will be able to solve it though, with all your experience.

Regards

Why the 4rsey comment?

I'm glad when most builders ask a question they don't get responses like that. What a friendly place this would be if they did.....

Sorry - I didn't mean it to come across like that - I didn't word it very well - I have re-read what I posted and I can see it looks 4rsey. Apologies

Regards

[02PRUV]

crafty said:

Is it the Ultima AC unit or the LS1 unit?

The LS AC units have a few types, one with the AC hose manifold on the rear and one with the AC manifold on the side..... both Monaro/GTO units.

I have one of those, which is spaced off the block so that it clears the engine mount..... but am not running factory headers

Post pics, maybe we can help.

I've got the with the A/C manifold comes off the side. It's out of a monaro for you guys and every run of the mill commodore for us. The header actually fouls on the mounting face and bolt for bolting the A/C manifold on.

I'll get some pics of it today.

[crafty]

You'd better check with the factory, they may run their own compressor with the LS engines, their headers may not fit with the stock compressor.

With my stock compressor, I had to space it off the block a little so that it would clear the engine mount, which in your case would make it worse.

[02PRUV]

After talking to Richard today the answer is no one has fitted an LS engine with stock accessories before. Everyone has just gone with getting all the American Speed accessories to make them fit. Richard was actually suprised the standard pulley system cleared the bulkhead (there is actually heaps of room).

I thought I would ring American Speed and just get some answers on what they use. They said that they use an LS7 style harmonic balancer (not as deep as an LS1 balancer) and all custom brackets and non GM A/C compressor etc. I asked them about fitting an engine with stock GM gear and they said they have tried with no success. So now it's my turn to make it fit. Give me a couple of days and hopefully I will have it done. The only other pulley that runs close to things is the main top belt tensioner to the overflow bottle. That's an easy item to move if need be though.

I can say now that all standard LS1 accessories fit behind the bulkhead. I even have one of the fuel filters in front of the harmonic balancer and still have an 1.5" clearance. You just remove the power steer pump and idler pulley next to the power steer and run a 1352mm belt. Run the belt from under the water pump straight to the alternator. And it all works with factory LS1 accessories other than the A/C which is on a different belt anyway. I will post up results once I've fixed the A/C compressor fitment issue.

[Steve_D]

02PRUV said:

....I can say now that all standard LS1 accessories fit behind the bulkhead. I even have one of the fuel filters in front of the harmonic balancer and still have an 1.5" clearance......

I'm wondering if you have all that clearance because the engine is sitting too far back. The most important factor for engine position is the alignment of the drive shafts. I may be wrong but believe you do not yet have a gearbox so may not be aware of drive shaft alignment.

Steve

[Gulf LS3]

02PRUV said:

After talking to Richard today the answer is no one has fitted an LS engine with stock accessories before. Everyone has just gone with getting all the American Speed accessories to make them fit. Richard was actually suprised the standard pulley system cleared the bulkhead (there is actually heaps of room).

I thought I would ring American Speed and just get some answers on what they use. They said that they use an LS7 style harmonic balancer (not as deep as an LS1 balancer) and all custom brackets and non GM A/C compressor etc. I asked them about fitting an engine with stock GM gear and they said they have tried with no success. So now it's my turn to make it fit. Give me a couple of days and hopefully I will have it done. The only other pulley that runs close to things is the main top belt tensioner to the overflow bottle. That's an easy item to move if need be though.

I can say now that all standard LS1 accessories fit behind the bulkhead. I even have one of the fuel filters in front of the harmonic balancer and still have an 1.5" clearance. You just remove the power steer pump and idler pulley next to the power steer and run a 1352mm belt. Run the belt from under the water pump straight to the alternator. And it all works with factory LS1 accessories other than the A/C which is on a different belt anyway. I will post up results once I've fixed the A/C compressor fitment issue.

its all been fitted before LS2 LS3 etc all standard Gm parts will fit it is not difficult

[02PRUV]

Gulf LS3 said:

its all been fitted before LS2 LS3 etc all standard Gm parts will fit it is not difficult

So where is the info? Ultima say they didn't even expect it to fit, American Speed say they have tried and couldn't get it to fit. So where is the info of people doing it and why hasn't it got back to the factory yet?

Oh and FYI LS2 and LS3 the whole pulley system sits closer into the engine than LS1 by a belt width roughly minimum. LS1 sits the out the most. In saying that the A/C compressor is the only issue fitting with Ultima headers and if the A/C compresser sat further back like LS2/LS3 do that would foul even more. People that have installed an LS2/LS3 and used all GM parts either haven't used the factory supplied headers or have modified the A/C mounting to move it or not run A/C at all.

This sort of info should be out there for builders to know. Not hidden in peoples heads and garages. Otherwise people are just told they have to buy this:

LS 1, 3, 7 turnkey accessory kit to install engine Alternator, A/C compressor, billet brackets and pulleys, Ultima engine harness, ECU, throttle pedal, mass air flow, air filter, sensors Dyno tested $4,895.00

That's a massive cost considering you can do it like this:
Alternator: $80
A/C compressor with bracket tensioner and belt: $430
Loom: $500
ECU: $90
Air Filter: $50
Total: $1150
Then you would have to get an ECU tune which here they charge $1000 for an LS1 edit (which most people get anyway).

So you have a total of $2,150 with a local dyno tune. They are some massive differences in costs there for no great differences.

[02PRUV]

Steve_D said:

I'm wondering if you have all that clearance because the engine is sitting too far back. The most important factor for engine position is the alignment of the drive shafts. I may be wrong but believe you do not yet have a gearbox so may not be aware of drive shaft alignment.

Steve

LS1/2/3/7 use the same bolt holes for engine mounts. I've got Ultima supplied engine mounts and it's bolted down on those. I have a gearbox already, not that I've bothered to measure it yet it looks like the half shafts line up fine. Which I would expect from Ultima supplied engine mounts.

[ROWDYRENAULT]

O.K. Forgive me for not knowing every part I used, but I installed an LS1 in my GTR before the factory had a kit. used a blank pulley kit from Renegade in Las vegas in place of the power steering pump. used aftermarket low profile polyurethene engine mounts, a Air conditioning adapter from Doc's Blocks to solve the compressor being to close to the engine mount. GTO oil pan and the motor fell in. Changed to Kinsler and a dry sump after a few months as planned. to say it can't be done using a factory Corvette A.C. air conditioning mount altenator mount and stock crank pulley is incorrect. All of this was off of the 2002 Corvette that the original block and heads came from. Headers I had built locally. I must say that since cats are not required to registar the car in California the factorys header's are not nessacary. Lee

[02PRUV]

ROWDYRENAULT said:

O.K. Forgive me for not knowing every part I used, but I installed an LS1 in my GTR before the factory had a kit. used a blank pulley kit from Renegade in Las vegas in place of the power steering pump. used aftermarket low profile polyurethene engine mounts, a Air conditioning adapter from Doc's Blocks to solve the compressor being to close to the engine mount. GTO oil pan and the motor fell in. Changed to Kinsler and a dry sump after a few months as planned. to say it can't be done using a factory Corvette A.C. air conditioning mount altenator mount and stock crank pulley is incorrect. All of this was off of the 2002 Corvette that the original block and heads came from. Headers I had built locally. I must say that since cats are not required to registar the car in California the factorys header's are not nessacary. Lee

Thanks for adding your experience. It all helps to get info out for everyone. You can use a 1352mm belt and just remove the idler pulley next to the power steer pump and that saves buying a blank pulley kit.

Camaro oil pan is the correct fitment as well.

The factory headers are nice and save the time getting stuff made locally. Now that I've looked at the car today we cut the front runner out of the headers and are going to tweak it a bit to sit a bit futher away from the A/C unit and it's done. One small mod to the factory headers and you can use a completely skock GM Setup. I think this is the way to go. Keeps things cheaper and means I can walk into the local GM dealer to buy parts off the shelf. All these LS1 accessories will be transfered over to my LSX engine when it comes as well.

[ezakimak]

02PRUV said:

LS1/2/3/7 use the same bolt holes for engine mounts. I've got Ultima supplied engine mounts and it's bolted down on those. I have a gearbox already, not that I've bothered to measure it yet it looks like the half shafts line up fine. Which I would expect from Ultima supplied engine mounts.

i would imagine that if you swap the engine mounts from side to side it will shift the position of the engine slightly forward or back. i seem to recal someone else making the same mistake a while back.

[738 driver]

If your motor is sitting correctly fore-aft, the adapter plate will be directly over the lower chassis cross-member and the rear faces of both almost level. Small deviations from this are usually found but large ones are more likely to be your motor plates are incorrectly fitted or just plain wrong for the block (might be worth waiting for the genuine engine to arrive) Evidence to support these variations can be seen on the many aftermarket ls conversion plate kits which regularly have elongated/slotted holes to accommodate any mounting discrepencies.
Maybe the info you require for free PRV is retained by people who's business is actually developing such installations.... not all posters follow AMS or the Factory route.
This is a kit car and the factory maintain builders' do not have to follow the factory method, as regularly happens with great success.

Good luck.