Pagid RS14 brake pads

[dannylt]

Wow! Fitted a full set over the weekend and the difference is incredible - much more bite and massive braking power with great feel. Only downside is slight squeal on touching them, but goes away when braking harder, could just need bedding in? But even if they screeched, I'd put up with them for the difference - looking forward to my first Elise track day on Friday now!

Ordered them from Eliseparts last week, great service and would highly recommend.

[bogie]

you just need to bed them in properly - find somewhere quiet and give them some stick - up to 70mph a few times, brake down to a stop as hard as you can, after a few goes than sit there and hold the pedal down as hard as you can for a few mins. Perform every few weeks/thousand miles if you dont brake that hard normally

[dannylt]

I did the former a few times at, err, 70ish - but holding them down when stopped? Sure - will give that a go. You have them already?

[bogie]

I have RS42s - I find that with a lot of motorway miles in the week they become glazed over now and again - going out and giving them a bit of hammer brigns them back to life !

[cuzza]

I thought standard procedure for bedding in discs was to avoid heavy braking for the first couple of hundred miles if possible??

[dannylt]

They're race pads - they said to do what I did, but I'll try the coming to a stop thing too.

[greenv8s]

bogie said:

brake down to a stop as hard as you can, after a few goes than sit there and hold the pedal down as hard as you can for a few mins.

Is that what Pagid recommend? Normally I would avoid holding hot pads against a stationary disc.

[bogie]

Thats what Nick Adams of lotus recommended for bedding in pads on the Elise - the full instructions were something like:

up to 40mph then brake to a stop
repeat x 3
up to 70 mph then brake to a stop
repeat x 3
up to 70mph then brake and stop then hold foot down on pedal as hard as you can until you cant hold it no more ! - apparently this gets a good heat cycle through the pads and beds them all in nicely

[bogie]

found the original thread from OLC BBS

Nick Adams (Lotus developing engineer)
Hi Ross, Alastair and Dave recommend the following procedure for bedding Elise brakes in:
With new pads and discs, or just new pads fitted run the car around for 10/20 miles using the brakes gently as normal to bed the two surfaces together. Once this has been done, check the surfaces of the discs and make sure here are no signs of any scoring or damage. Assuming all looks well take the car to an appropriate piece of quiet and straight, well sighted road and perform half a dozen medium pressure stops from 50 mph down to 20 mph to warm the brakes up. Avoid more than a minute between each stop so that the temperatures do not get a chance to deteriorate too much. Once the brakes are warm and the coast is clear, perform 2 or 3 hard stops from 70mph (where local laws allow!) to 20 mph, braking as hard as you can without locking up. Do not come to a halt between each stop, do them as fast as you can to get the brakes really hot. On the third stop come to a halt and keeping your foot on the brake press the brake pedal down as hard as you can and hold it there for at least a couple of minutes, don't apply the handbrake. This hurts if you are doing it right! This will bed the pistons, shims and pads together and will compress the pad material, giving a hard and repeatable pedal. Once the 2 minutes have passed, release the pedal and go for a short drive, using the brakes as normal to let everything return to normal temperatures. The brakes are now fully bedded in and ready for use in anger. Recompressing the pads once every few thousand miles to the above procedure will help keep the pedal firm, especially if you don't normally use the brakes hard.
Cheers, Nick

Marcus (me) now,
that is an interesting piece of information. I used to be MUCH gentler to my Elises brakes, when they were new. With satisfying results. No reason to complain. But it took some time to have the brakes work properly. Your method seems to be MUCH quicker. Does this method of compressing the pads only refer to the Elise's MMC brakes or does it suit as well for the Exige's system?
Marcus

Nick Adams
Hi Marcus, suits 'em all sir. If you are too gentle with bedding the pads/discs in you can glaze (polish) the disc surface, leading to problems with vibration under braking as the pads slip over the polished patches. Moral, don't be too kind!
Cheers, Nick

[skinner]

bogie said:

Thats what Nick Adams of lotus recommended for bedding in pads on the Elise - the full instructions were something like: up to 40mph then brake to a stop repeat x 3 up to 70 mph then brake to a stop repeat x 3 up to 70mph then brake and stop then hold foot down on pedal as hard as you can until you cant hold it no more ! - apparently this gets a good heat cycle through the pads and beds them all in nicely

Bogie,

You have no idea how good it is to hear that!! I am up at Croft on Saturday and was in real fear for the life of my current pads so have ordered a set from Geary. The past 4 hours have been spent thinking how I can put 1000 miles on the car from receiveing the pads on Wednesday, fitting them, working, rugby training and driving to Croft early Saturday morning. So just to repeat,
Thanks pal!!

[DanH]

I don't agree about holding them down like that. Sounds like a sure fire way to cause imprinting on the disc.

www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

No disrespect to Nick, but its exactly what this article suggests you avoid...

[rico]

But surely unless you actually lock up the wheels (baddddd) then you won't have the pad on the same part of the disc....?

So shouldn't leave an inprint?

[skinner]

Not wanting to take any sides here, anyone care to confirm what works and what doesn't. Bogie, have you had issues with your disks "warping" after leaving your foot on the pedal? DanH, do your brakes bed in well without leaving your foot on the pedal?

Rather than bu99er a pair of disks and pads, it would be good to have a definative answer. Also, any difference when only replacing the pads rather than both disks and pads?

[bogie]

nah - dont have any probs myself - I run std Lotus S2 disks - Im on my 2nd set, 3rd set of pads (2nd set of RS42s) and Ive bedded them in like this from new (as I had them squealing from new and went looking for a solution) ...it works every time for me and I repeat it now and again if my brakes go off (too much motorway driving sometimes)

I dont think just by doing a few hard stops and putting your foot on the pedal you are gonna be knackering your disks...maybe my leg is not that strong !

[Nightmare]

I agree with Bogie on this one - have had the same advice from Matthew Mortlock (owns F1 sales company and races in the Euroboss series) as well as Nick. To be clear, Nick Adams is an absolute technical genius/god/superb human being.

If that's what he says to do, then that's what you should do.

The only possible risk I can see is if you have, say, pgid pads bu standard discs - maybe that could cause a problem, but I dont see why.

[dannylt]

Yep - I have the (race) Pagid pads on standard discs, but that's because the standard discs are still meaty. When they wear enough I'll replace with some Eliseparts discs, but that's really only an unsprung weight advantage - it's not like the material is significantly different or there's any extra breaking leverage.

>> Edited by dannylt on Sunday 22 August 17:20

[skinner]

Thanks Gents

All sorted, put them on this afternoon. 4 stops down from 50ish, then up to 70 for 7 or 8 then up to the ton and down a couple of times. I then had a calm run home with light/std braking. Left it for an hour or so then a sprint across the M62 (thanks to the Bently Conti for the forward look out!!) and with a few more std slows all seems to be fine.

Oh, and fk me do they work!!! Great bite, really noticed it after the 4th or 5th stop from 70. Used to have a big problem with the old pads snatching a wheel, but these are either locking them or not, simple as that. Very reassuring!!

[DanH]

Ok just to clear it up a bit. The only aspect the stoptech article really debates is the pushing the pads into the disk hard at the end of the runs. You've got a hot brake system then and it seems liable to cause imprinting. Whilst the lotus chap is obviously knowledgeable, so are these guys as they manufacture brake systems.

Thus I'd be inclined to listen to both where they agree, but not do the whole 'hold the pedal down thing'.

Not really any evidence, but in an old car I'd get the system hot, and then press on the pedal holding it down hardish for no good reason (bored at traffic lights etc). It developed a vibration under braking. Dunno if that was why but its plausible.