Old Z3 vs MX-5 - deep pocket required?
Discussion
I want a fun car that is RWD.
I will do about 6k miles commuting a year (mainly motorway and consisting of 1 x 100mile round per week and around 20 airport runs per year of say 100-120mile per time) so not daily grind stuff.
Open top is nice idea for when it is warm but not essential.
I would like to try 1-2 track days for the experience, not compete.
I had a e46 330i and loved the engine for the sound and nice levels of poke - I have a soft spot for 6cyl BMWs and love the sound, especially if a quality exhaust is fitted.
Budget is 3K.
So of course a a tired high mileage Z3 2,8 fits the bill (maybe a very shagged 3.0l even).
Here is a nice 2.8 claiming only 66k miles so maybe not that tired but even still it is 13 yrs old so will need some suspension refresh I suppose and a few other bits and bobs. Most of them are over 100k miles which is about right for a car of this age although there may soem garage queens about:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2859683.htm
But what about a nice MK2 MX-5 special edition with LSD, nice seats, steering etc or one of the well modded imports with more sporty suspension, roll bars, exhaust etc. There seem to be allot of UK cars atht are already well modded meaning I get a ready made car taht is perfectly set up and will make it feel more exciting than a boggo MX-5 or even az3?
I like Jap cars too and am used to high revving Hondas and love the gear shift quality that some of the best japs can offer when driven hard.
However, when driven slowly it just isn't as much of 'occasion' as when burbling along with nice straight six.
I know on here the MX-5 is much better rated than a Z3 for handling but I drove a Z3 2.8 auto hard on some country roads many years ago (it was my first high powered RWD car that I drove on a challenging road) and found it exhilarating.
I think I know I want a Z3 because it has the ingredients - low, small, RWD, nice looking in and out (in my opinion anyway) and has an engine note I love. The thing is the sensible side of me says that at my budget I am buying a very old car that is still a 'complex' BMW and I would probably spend what I paid for it on repairs in the next few years which would sour the experience and make me think that I should have gotten a reliable Jap MX-5 with all the toys and enjoyed fun motoring without the big bills...
Anyone run a high mile Z3 on here?
My last cars were Honda Prelude 2,2 VTI, 330i saloon, Clio 1,4, Jazz and then FR-V (mini ppl carrier) so right now any low small RWD car will feel like a cart to me to be honest...
I will do about 6k miles commuting a year (mainly motorway and consisting of 1 x 100mile round per week and around 20 airport runs per year of say 100-120mile per time) so not daily grind stuff.
Open top is nice idea for when it is warm but not essential.
I would like to try 1-2 track days for the experience, not compete.
I had a e46 330i and loved the engine for the sound and nice levels of poke - I have a soft spot for 6cyl BMWs and love the sound, especially if a quality exhaust is fitted.
Budget is 3K.
So of course a a tired high mileage Z3 2,8 fits the bill (maybe a very shagged 3.0l even).
Here is a nice 2.8 claiming only 66k miles so maybe not that tired but even still it is 13 yrs old so will need some suspension refresh I suppose and a few other bits and bobs. Most of them are over 100k miles which is about right for a car of this age although there may soem garage queens about:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2859683.htm
But what about a nice MK2 MX-5 special edition with LSD, nice seats, steering etc or one of the well modded imports with more sporty suspension, roll bars, exhaust etc. There seem to be allot of UK cars atht are already well modded meaning I get a ready made car taht is perfectly set up and will make it feel more exciting than a boggo MX-5 or even az3?
I like Jap cars too and am used to high revving Hondas and love the gear shift quality that some of the best japs can offer when driven hard.
However, when driven slowly it just isn't as much of 'occasion' as when burbling along with nice straight six.
I know on here the MX-5 is much better rated than a Z3 for handling but I drove a Z3 2.8 auto hard on some country roads many years ago (it was my first high powered RWD car that I drove on a challenging road) and found it exhilarating.
I think I know I want a Z3 because it has the ingredients - low, small, RWD, nice looking in and out (in my opinion anyway) and has an engine note I love. The thing is the sensible side of me says that at my budget I am buying a very old car that is still a 'complex' BMW and I would probably spend what I paid for it on repairs in the next few years which would sour the experience and make me think that I should have gotten a reliable Jap MX-5 with all the toys and enjoyed fun motoring without the big bills...
Anyone run a high mile Z3 on here?
My last cars were Honda Prelude 2,2 VTI, 330i saloon, Clio 1,4, Jazz and then FR-V (mini ppl carrier) so right now any low small RWD car will feel like a cart to me to be honest...
Jammiedodger said:
£3k should get you a super/turbo charged MX5 - which helps you with power/noise AND handling?
Will it be reliable though or be a potential money pit?From reading MX-Lazza posts (and seeing his car in action) I believe it costs allot to do it properly so will a 3k super/turbo's be a decent one - thought they would fetch better money than that?
Apart from purchase costs running costs are important (not fuel but repair bills, suspension refreshing, turbos blowing, vanos timing chain problems etc etc)
I've had a go in a 2.8 Z3 and I have actually considered them as a replacement to my Mazda.
The handling gets slated but in reality there not BAD, just not as flighty as a Mazda.
The engines are obviously much, much more sonorous, smoother and more modern.
But as a whole ownership prospect the Mazda is still brill - because they cost buttons to run and fix, EVERYTHING is available for them, cheaply and easily.
They are excellent if you like to tinker, because of the massive 'scene' and amount of stuff available, huge owners clubs etc.
Great trackday following too and a cheap, easy car to run on track.
In short - if I didnt like tinkering, and just bought the car, got a garage to service it once a year and occasionally put the roof down, I would get a Z3.
But I actually have the Mazda because its such a great ownership experience, It always makes me smile, I've met some great mates through ownership, I've learnt tonnes, I have loads of stuff to do to it. Its definitely more of a hobby than just owning a car - I guess it depends if thats what you want or not.
The handling gets slated but in reality there not BAD, just not as flighty as a Mazda.
The engines are obviously much, much more sonorous, smoother and more modern.
But as a whole ownership prospect the Mazda is still brill - because they cost buttons to run and fix, EVERYTHING is available for them, cheaply and easily.
They are excellent if you like to tinker, because of the massive 'scene' and amount of stuff available, huge owners clubs etc.
Great trackday following too and a cheap, easy car to run on track.
In short - if I didnt like tinkering, and just bought the car, got a garage to service it once a year and occasionally put the roof down, I would get a Z3.
But I actually have the Mazda because its such a great ownership experience, It always makes me smile, I've met some great mates through ownership, I've learnt tonnes, I have loads of stuff to do to it. Its definitely more of a hobby than just owning a car - I guess it depends if thats what you want or not.
The Z3 is just a BMW, and they cope quite well with high mileages. So I wouldn't worry about that.
Of the two I'd go for the Z3, I've driven a few MX-5s and they aren't the be all and end all of convertibles. You probably wouldn't notice the difference in handling unless you drove them back-to-back, but you will notice the engine every time you pull away from the lights or want to overtake someone.
Of the two I'd go for the Z3, I've driven a few MX-5s and they aren't the be all and end all of convertibles. You probably wouldn't notice the difference in handling unless you drove them back-to-back, but you will notice the engine every time you pull away from the lights or want to overtake someone.
I don't think the MX5 engine is that poor a relation to the Z3 engine. It's raspy and loves to be revved, but it is also notoriously tough. It lacks refinement but it is a superb piece of engineering. Overall, the MX5 is the far better drivers car, though I do like the Z3 as well. I think if you're looking for more of a relaxed cruiser the Z3 would fit the bill better, the MX5 would be the one to go to if you want sporty RWD fun every day.
"buying a very old car" hahaha, no you're not!
I honestly don't think the MX5 is anything special, OK for a "starter" sports car, though. Z3's are a bit "different" though personally I don't like them much either, due to the looks of them!
Go for what your heart says - seems to be the Z.
I honestly don't think the MX5 is anything special, OK for a "starter" sports car, though. Z3's are a bit "different" though personally I don't like them much either, due to the looks of them!
Go for what your heart says - seems to be the Z.
Edited by pixieporsche on Thursday 9th June 10:44
I've owned both.
The Z3 is more distinctive and personally I love the front wings/details on it. It is forgiving, not cheap to service unless you have a good Indy nearby. I'd pick the X3 for a long run.
The MX5 is better balanced car; more direct and fun as a drivers experience. Good parts availability and cheap to service, even through a main dealer.
Both have active and very helpful forums/owners clubs.
Prices being equal, I'd look for a rust free MX5 in Mk2 guise. Don't worry about mileage on them, do worry about sills, etc. Check to forums for what to look for.
The Z3 is more distinctive and personally I love the front wings/details on it. It is forgiving, not cheap to service unless you have a good Indy nearby. I'd pick the X3 for a long run.
The MX5 is better balanced car; more direct and fun as a drivers experience. Good parts availability and cheap to service, even through a main dealer.
Both have active and very helpful forums/owners clubs.
Prices being equal, I'd look for a rust free MX5 in Mk2 guise. Don't worry about mileage on them, do worry about sills, etc. Check to forums for what to look for.
To be honest, unless you're a driving god, just about any car is a hoot on a track, so I think you'd be fine with a Z3.
I completely agree about the noise. I borrowed a 2.8 for a weekend and just couldn't get enough of the noise and smoothness of the engine. I would take it over an MX-5 for that reason alone.
So I think your option is coming down to running costs (MX-5 must win hands down here??) and finding a mint example of either.
I completely agree about the noise. I borrowed a 2.8 for a weekend and just couldn't get enough of the noise and smoothness of the engine. I would take it over an MX-5 for that reason alone.
So I think your option is coming down to running costs (MX-5 must win hands down here??) and finding a mint example of either.
My mum has had a few Z3 2.8's, she has really enjoyed them too. 
They are nice cars and the interior is much better than the MX5 in my opinion.
She did buy a 1.9 Z3 after she sold her last 2.8 and it was gone within a week of the log book turning up! If you go for a Z - only go for the 2.8 or 3.0!
My mum likes them so much, she's quite determined to own a Z3M at some point too.
They are nice cars and the interior is much better than the MX5 in my opinion.She did buy a 1.9 Z3 after she sold her last 2.8 and it was gone within a week of the log book turning up! If you go for a Z - only go for the 2.8 or 3.0!
My mum likes them so much, she's quite determined to own a Z3M at some point too.
hondafanatic said:
To be honest, unless you're a driving god, just about any car is a hoot on a track, so I think you'd be fine with a Z3.
I completely agree about the noise. I borrowed a 2.8 for a weekend and just couldn't get enough of the noise and smoothness of the engine. I would take it over an MX-5 for that reason alone.
So I think your option is coming down to running costs (MX-5 must win hands down here??) and finding a mint example of either.
Track days will likely be 1-2 a year for fun but if the bug bites and I want to get it is a different story...I completely agree about the noise. I borrowed a 2.8 for a weekend and just couldn't get enough of the noise and smoothness of the engine. I would take it over an MX-5 for that reason alone.
So I think your option is coming down to running costs (MX-5 must win hands down here??) and finding a mint example of either.
After boring cars (it has been 5 years since my 330 and 3 years since my Clio which despite just being a 1.4 was very fun) either will feel great I think especially as I am no driving god (I had more 'skids' in the clio than the 330!)
I want to try and get a handle on what is likely to go bang on an 'old' Z3 - anyone have some experience?
Do they rust too? What about the electric hood - problematic?
The MX-5 does seem bullet proof but scanning the reads you do see engine failures and of course the rust which is relatively easy to avoid/fix. I guess as the MX-5 are more likely be ragged very hard now (on road and track) you will see more posts about broken engines and gearboxes than a car that is used 'normally'plus there are just so many of them about.
Although I have had my experience with Jap cars and big bills - my Prelude VTI needed new callipers, wheel bearings (which needed a new hub as you can't get the bearing out) and lots of new bushes in the suspension and a driveshaft bearing so it cost me but the Prelude is known for hard to find and expensive parts (and did 185k miles when I sold it so not bad!).
The Prelude example probably not applicable for the MX-5 but I wonder if applicable to the Z3...
pixieporsche said:
My mum has had a few Z3 2.8's, she has really enjoyed them too. They are nice cars and the interior is much better than the MX5 in my opinion.
She did buy a 1.9 Z3 after she sold her last 2.8 and it was gone within a week of the log book turning up! If you go for a Z - only go for the 2.8 or 3.0!
My mum likes them so much, she's quite determined to own a Z3M at some point too.
Did she have them long, were they 'old' and did they break and cost lots to fix? They are nice cars and the interior is much better than the MX5 in my opinion.She did buy a 1.9 Z3 after she sold her last 2.8 and it was gone within a week of the log book turning up! If you go for a Z - only go for the 2.8 or 3.0!
My mum likes them so much, she's quite determined to own a Z3M at some point too.
Dino D said:
I guess as the MX-5 are more likely be ragged very hard now (on road and track) you will see more posts about broken engines and gearboxes than a car that is used 'normally'plus there are just so many of them about.
Gearbox/Engine/Other 'catastrophic' mechanical failures are very, very rare on MX5's, and even if it does happen... could you get a known decent replacement engine in your Z3 for probably less than £200?MX-5s do have common faults and problems (Believe it or not, some people on here!) but they very, very rarely 'break down' as it were.
OP, just an option for you...
If you are not using the car for the daily grind, just take a drive in a Mk1 MX5. They are a bit more raw than the Mk2/2.5 but may be the better 'sports car'. You can get into a good 1.8 for £1,500 and if it's not your thing, you can get out of it again for £1,500.
I woudn't bother 'charging it. I considered it when I had one, but a lot of the 'mind-space' enjoyment for me was how strong the engine is - you can give them hell as std and they just lap it up. and they are not exactly that slow.
And IMO, if you were impressed by hard-charging Z3 auto on a good road, take the MX5 down the same one and you will love it. That is of course if you like rowing through the gears keeping the little 4 pot on the boil, using the nice steering / brakes and well judged chassis to slice through corners. And the primary controls are very well matched and make the car gel. plus they are easy to work on yourself, or low bills for someone else to do your spannering.
Be careful though - the difference between a good one and bad one is significant!
If you get your thrills more from point and squirt urge and nice engine noise, then a 6-pot Z3 is probably going to tick more boxes for you.
Get out there and try a few, you'll soon know what rings your bell.
If you are not using the car for the daily grind, just take a drive in a Mk1 MX5. They are a bit more raw than the Mk2/2.5 but may be the better 'sports car'. You can get into a good 1.8 for £1,500 and if it's not your thing, you can get out of it again for £1,500.
I woudn't bother 'charging it. I considered it when I had one, but a lot of the 'mind-space' enjoyment for me was how strong the engine is - you can give them hell as std and they just lap it up. and they are not exactly that slow.
And IMO, if you were impressed by hard-charging Z3 auto on a good road, take the MX5 down the same one and you will love it. That is of course if you like rowing through the gears keeping the little 4 pot on the boil, using the nice steering / brakes and well judged chassis to slice through corners. And the primary controls are very well matched and make the car gel. plus they are easy to work on yourself, or low bills for someone else to do your spannering.
Be careful though - the difference between a good one and bad one is significant!
If you get your thrills more from point and squirt urge and nice engine noise, then a 6-pot Z3 is probably going to tick more boxes for you.
Get out there and try a few, you'll soon know what rings your bell.
Dino D said:
I want a fun car that is RWD.
I will do about 6k miles commuting a year (mainly motorway and consisting of 1 x 100mile round per week and around 20 airport runs per year of say 100-120mile per time) so not daily grind stuff.
Open top is nice idea for when it is warm but not essential.
I would like to try 1-2 track days for the experience, not compete.
I had a e46 330i and loved the engine for the sound and nice levels of poke - I have a soft spot for 6cyl BMWs and love the sound, especially if a quality exhaust is fitted.
Budget is 3K.
So of course a a tired high mileage Z3 2,8 fits the bill (maybe a very shagged 3.0l even).
Here is a nice 2.8 claiming only 66k miles so maybe not that tired but even still it is 13 yrs old so will need some suspension refresh I suppose and a few other bits and bobs. Most of them are over 100k miles which is about right for a car of this age although there may soem garage queens about:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2859683.htm
But what about a nice MK2 MX-5 special edition with LSD, nice seats, steering etc or one of the well modded imports with more sporty suspension, roll bars, exhaust etc. There seem to be allot of UK cars atht are already well modded meaning I get a ready made car taht is perfectly set up and will make it feel more exciting than a boggo MX-5 or even az3?
I like Jap cars too and am used to high revving Hondas and love the gear shift quality that some of the best japs can offer when driven hard.
However, when driven slowly it just isn't as much of 'occasion' as when burbling along with nice straight six.
I know on here the MX-5 is much better rated than a Z3 for handling but I drove a Z3 2.8 auto hard on some country roads many years ago (it was my first high powered RWD car that I drove on a challenging road) and found it exhilarating.
I think I know I want a Z3 because it has the ingredients - low, small, RWD, nice looking in and out (in my opinion anyway) and has an engine note I love. The thing is the sensible side of me says that at my budget I am buying a very old car that is still a 'complex' BMW and I would probably spend what I paid for it on repairs in the next few years which would sour the experience and make me think that I should have gotten a reliable Jap MX-5 with all the toys and enjoyed fun motoring without the big bills...
Anyone run a high mile Z3 on here?
My last cars were Honda Prelude 2,2 VTI, 330i saloon, Clio 1,4, Jazz and then FR-V (mini ppl carrier) so right now any low small RWD car will feel like a cart to me to be honest...
Maybe going against the grain a bit here. But out of the two I'd go BMW. Nicer place to sit most of the time and quite a chunck faster stock. I know you can mod the MX-5's with FI for more poke. But for some reason I'm not fully sold on them, although I do really like the exterior door handles on the MK1 MX's... I will do about 6k miles commuting a year (mainly motorway and consisting of 1 x 100mile round per week and around 20 airport runs per year of say 100-120mile per time) so not daily grind stuff.
Open top is nice idea for when it is warm but not essential.
I would like to try 1-2 track days for the experience, not compete.
I had a e46 330i and loved the engine for the sound and nice levels of poke - I have a soft spot for 6cyl BMWs and love the sound, especially if a quality exhaust is fitted.
Budget is 3K.
So of course a a tired high mileage Z3 2,8 fits the bill (maybe a very shagged 3.0l even).
Here is a nice 2.8 claiming only 66k miles so maybe not that tired but even still it is 13 yrs old so will need some suspension refresh I suppose and a few other bits and bobs. Most of them are over 100k miles which is about right for a car of this age although there may soem garage queens about:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2859683.htm
But what about a nice MK2 MX-5 special edition with LSD, nice seats, steering etc or one of the well modded imports with more sporty suspension, roll bars, exhaust etc. There seem to be allot of UK cars atht are already well modded meaning I get a ready made car taht is perfectly set up and will make it feel more exciting than a boggo MX-5 or even az3?
I like Jap cars too and am used to high revving Hondas and love the gear shift quality that some of the best japs can offer when driven hard.
However, when driven slowly it just isn't as much of 'occasion' as when burbling along with nice straight six.
I know on here the MX-5 is much better rated than a Z3 for handling but I drove a Z3 2.8 auto hard on some country roads many years ago (it was my first high powered RWD car that I drove on a challenging road) and found it exhilarating.
I think I know I want a Z3 because it has the ingredients - low, small, RWD, nice looking in and out (in my opinion anyway) and has an engine note I love. The thing is the sensible side of me says that at my budget I am buying a very old car that is still a 'complex' BMW and I would probably spend what I paid for it on repairs in the next few years which would sour the experience and make me think that I should have gotten a reliable Jap MX-5 with all the toys and enjoyed fun motoring without the big bills...
Anyone run a high mile Z3 on here?
My last cars were Honda Prelude 2,2 VTI, 330i saloon, Clio 1,4, Jazz and then FR-V (mini ppl carrier) so right now any low small RWD car will feel like a cart to me to be honest...
I'd have thought a 2.8i Z3 with maybe some beefed up suspension would be quite a hoot. Not as sharpe as an MX and heavier. But still grin inducing.
That said, in reality I'd say no to either and go for one of these instead:
1990 TVR 350i Series 2 in Mica Blue (1990)
56,000 miles £3,495
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2729325.htm
Although slightly the wrong time of yeah to buy one for £3k, 2 or 3 months back you could of though.
The OP seems to be worried about potential running costs. On that basis alone the MX5 is a no-brainer. Cheap as chips to fix and you can do just about everything yourself or get the bloke under the railway arches up the road to do it. A non-interference engine as well in the unlikely event the cambelt goes. £3k will buy you a very good MK2 but you'll need to look long and hard for rust-free one. A 1.8 RS would be nice; lsd, extra bracing, 6-speed box etc.
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