Kit car described as Dutton?? Really??

[Steffan]

See Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

I have owned various Duttons. Phaeton Legera Sierra B type etc.

I have never seen a chassis set up like this or a Dutton with a rear wheel drive or an Imp engine.

Never see a general layout like this on a Dutton but could the tub be a Duton??

I am being circumspect because it may be genuine. Any thoughts??

[Yazza54]

As naff as that looks on first glance it looks pretty well engineered at a second look. Don't know anything about it, someone on here will surely.

[Steffan]

I agree with you but is it a Dutton. If its nit its a ringer.

[Yazza54]

Well it looks nothing like any dutton I've ever seen. Looks like some random special that would never be sva friendly and has become a dutton to get on the road. Would put money on it being a ringer.

[Richardsix]

It does say "based" on a Dutton!

[Yazza54]

Richardsix said:

It does say "based" on a Dutton!

Yeah, chassis plate and v5

[Comadis]

side view from chassis, front suspension indicates that the car originally was a dutton.

[Jerkins]

To quote the seller's description - "BASED ON A 1981 DUTTON CHASSIS" - which suggests that it is a re-bodied Dutton, so probably legal.

I'd still be wary, though...

[Steffan]

Jerkins said:

To quote the seller's description - "BASED ON A 1981 DUTTON CHASSIS" - which suggests that it is a re-bodied Dutton, so probably legal.

I'd still be wary, though...

The side rails and general chassis layout do not look Dutton to me.

The geometry and material is altogether too recent.

If its been rebodied reengined with all new running gear and transmission a different chassis then its not a Dutton except as another contributor said for the vin and the plate.

I think it looks a reasonable build but as is often the case the registration is questionable. At best.

[Mr2Mike]

Steffan said:

The side rails and general chassis layout do not look Dutton to me.

I'd say it was very similar to a Dutton chassis.

[Comadis]

thanx for posting this pic(thats exactly what i searched, but didnt found), which confirms my "older" posting that the chassis from the ebay car originally was a dutton chassis!!!

[EFA]

There is nothing illegal about having a car misdescribed on the V5, so long as you have informed the DVLA of the correct details. This is your only obligation in law Statute Instrument No 2742 - The Road Vehicle (Registration and Licencing) Act 2002 as amended.

Many who post opinion on these types of threads are uninformed of what is actually the law.

[Arthur Jackson]

EFA said:

Many who post opinion on these types of threads are uninformed of what is actually the law.

Or what a Dutton chassis looks like!

[Steffan]

EFA said:

There is nothing illegal about having a car misdescribed on the V5, so long as you have informed the DVLA of the correct details. This is your only obligation in law Statute Instrument No 2742 - The Road Vehicle (Registration and Licencing) Act 2002 as amended.

Many who post opinion on these types of threads are uninformed of what is actually the law.

I suggest that you are unaware of the number of improperly registered kit cars being VOR'd by the police currently. Every week.

If the only connection between the car in reality and the registration it has is the Vin plate and mumber plates it is NOT LEGAL.

Thus a Ford Fiesta registration on a Kit Car near me which had a Dutton underneath was spotted by the Police checked and off the road in the same day. Permanently until IVA'd which is almost impossible certainly uneconomic

This is not fun.

[Frankthered]

Steffan said:

EFA said:

There is nothing illegal about having a car misdescribed on the V5, so long as you have informed the DVLA of the correct details. This is your only obligation in law Statute Instrument No 2742 - The Road Vehicle (Registration and Licencing) Act 2002 as amended.

Many who post opinion on these types of threads are uninformed of what is actually the law.

I suggest that you are unaware of the number of improperly registered kit cars being VOR'd by the police currently. Every week.

If the only connection between the car in reality and the registration it has is the Vin plate and mumber plates it is NOT LEGAL.

Thus a Ford Fiesta registration on a Kit Car near me which had a Dutton underneath was spotted by the Police checked and off the road in the same day. Permanently until IVA'd which is almost impossible certainly uneconomic

This is not fun.

Thanks for that response, Steffan. I was going to respond along similar line, but I think you said it better than I could. I visited Southways last summer and they had a Robin Hood in their workshop that somebody had bought in good faith. It was still registered as a Ford Sierra and, when the new owner tried to tax the car, he was told that he couldn't - maybe he had tried to update the V5, being a law abiding citizen!

Southways were dismantling the car to recycle the parts as the car would have needed IVA and this would have been uneconomic. Superficially, the car looked ok. This is the problem people have with this sort of thing, when an unsuspecting punter lays out a significant sum of money on something that they can't use.

The issue with the car in this thread is that, even though it could be based on a Dutton chassis, that chassis has been modified and therefore legally should be subjected to an IVA.

The slightly sad part is that (like the Westfield that we were discussing last week) this car is old enough that it might well have been modified prior to these laws having been in place, and all they needed to was update the V5 as required.

But there you go ...

[EFA]

Steffan,

Please read my post again. I am not condoning building a kit car and leaving it registered as a Fiesta and not informing the DVLA.

And the greatest legal penalty even if a V5 update is not informed is a fine. The vehicle cannot be legally seized. The owner would however need to understand the law or hire a decent lawyer.

[Frankthered]

EFA said:

Steffan,

Please read my post again. I am not condoning building a kit car and leaving it registered as a Fiesta and not informing the DVLA.

And the greatest legal penalty even if a V5 update is not informed is a fine. The vehicle cannot be legally seized. The owner would however need to understand the law or hire a decent lawyer.

Sorry EFA, I think you are missing the point. I have no reason to doubt that you are correct and that the worst consequence of an incorrect V5 is a slap on the wrist or a fine.

But what comes next? Once you try to correct the details on the V5, the DVLA tell you that if the chassis/structure of the car has been modified, you can't use that reg. no. any more and you have to apply for a new one. And to do that you will need an IVA.

If it's a recent design of kit and has been built with IVA in mind, that might not be a big deal - other than forking out almost £500 for the test!

But with older stuff, they're unlikely to be IVA friendly and some poor mug has just found out they've bought a car that they cannot legally use on the road.

[Steffan]

Frankthered said:

EFA said:

Steffan,

Please read my post again. I am not condoning building a kit car and leaving it registered as a Fiesta and not informing the DVLA.

And the greatest legal penalty even if a V5 update is not informed is a fine. The vehicle cannot be legally seized. The owner would however need to understand the law or hire a decent lawyer.

Sorry EFA, I think you are missing the point. I have no reason to doubt that you are correct and that the worst consequence of an incorrect V5 is a slap on the wrist or a fine.

But what comes next? Once you try to correct the details on the V5, the DVLA tell you that if the chassis/structure of the car has been modified, you can't use that reg. no. any more and you have to apply for a new one. And to do that you will need an IVA.

If it's a recent design of kit and has been built with IVA in mind, that might not be a big deal - other than forking out almost £500 for the test!

But with older stuff, they're unlikely to be IVA friendly and some poor mug has just found out they've bought a car that they cannot legally use on the road.

[Steffan]

Frankthered said:

EFA said:

Steffan,

Please read my post again. I am not condoning building a kit car and leaving it registered as a Fiesta and not informing the DVLA.

And the greatest legal penalty even if a V5 update is not informed is a fine. The vehicle cannot be legally seized. The owner would however need to understand the law or hire a decent lawyer.

Sorry EFA, I think you are missing the point. I have no reason to doubt that you are correct and that the worst consequence of an incorrect V5 is a slap on the wrist or a fine.

But what comes next? Once you try to correct the details on the V5, the DVLA tell you that if the chassis/structure of the car has been modified, you can't use that reg. no. any more and you have to apply for a new one. And to do that you will need an IVA.

If it's a recent design of kit and has been built with IVA in mind, that might not be a big deal - other than forking out almost £500 for the test!

But with older stuff, they're unlikely to be IVA friendly and some poor mug has just found out they've bought a car that they cannot legally use on the road.

One again I entirely agree with this comment.

In reality once the vehicle is rumbled (for rumbled it will be at some point) the DVLA withdraw the registration and the ONLY way to resolve this is by getting an IVA on the car which with old kit cars is totally uneconomic if achievable at all.

Two makes seem to suffer this particularly. Triumph and Ford based cars.

I have seen a Kit Car with a Triumph Herald Registration made up (badly) of Alfa bits a Fiat twin cam engine a Locost type chassis various bodywork some Robin Hood some definitely not all Ford suspension a complete mismatch of parts DESCRIBED as a Robin Hood in the original advert and sale and paperwork ie receipt. Bought in good faith.

Much good that did the buyer.

Not surprisingly it was rumbled ordered off the road and was broken up by a Kit Car company who bought (£200) it after quoting to the owner for an IVA.

Described on purchase as a Robin Hood with a MOT but clearly a ringer.

There was no part of a Triumph in the car not even the seats and trim.

As a contributor said only the Number Plates and Vin from a Herald were Triumph.

We have all seen Ford cars registered as Sierra's etc which are convertible sports cars loosely based on Robin Hood type cars.

The days of these are numbered the MOT stations are under pressure to refuse to MOT cars which are clearly NOT the vehicle in the Log Book and every kit car buyer should be warned. Or face a big bill and a lot of frustration.

[motco]

No more a Dutton than a Hillman Imp