PDK - owners real thoughts?
Discussion
My Cayman S (manual) is in at the Wilmslow OPC for some maintenance today and I've been given a Boxster S with PDK as a courtesy car for the day.
Now the novelty of this gearbox has entertained me a bit this morning but I'm interested to know what regular drivers with PDK transmissions really think of it? I imagine drivers that would ordinarily have bought a Tiptronic car think its fantastic but what about you guys and gals that bought it instead of manual's? Does the novelty wear off or does the experience keep getting better?
I'm asking because today is the first time I can honestly say I've enjoyed driving an auto EVER! I would definitely consider a PDK when I come to change my car in 18-24 months time but would I hate it 6months into ownership...
I tell you what though, I wouldn't want to race one from a set of lights, that's for sure!
Now the novelty of this gearbox has entertained me a bit this morning but I'm interested to know what regular drivers with PDK transmissions really think of it? I imagine drivers that would ordinarily have bought a Tiptronic car think its fantastic but what about you guys and gals that bought it instead of manual's? Does the novelty wear off or does the experience keep getting better?
I'm asking because today is the first time I can honestly say I've enjoyed driving an auto EVER! I would definitely consider a PDK when I come to change my car in 18-24 months time but would I hate it 6months into ownership...
I tell you what though, I wouldn't want to race one from a set of lights, that's for sure!
It's awesome, wonderfully smooth, super efficient, and about as interactive as you can ever want from an auto box.
You'll never replace a manual for total involvement, but this is about as good as it gets in terms of the best of both worlds.
Face it, these type of boxes are here to stay, so you may aswell get used to it I'm afraid.
G.
You'll never replace a manual for total involvement, but this is about as good as it gets in terms of the best of both worlds.
Face it, these type of boxes are here to stay, so you may aswell get used to it I'm afraid.
G.
Driven 4 or 5 PDK equipped cars, and echo the comments about traffic light grand prix.
You need sports chrono or the retro fit sports program though, I drove a 997 PDK without it and it was dull (the gearbox that is).
PDK is very impressive in the way it responds in sport mode, without the need for driver intervention it puts you in the right gear at the right time every time.
But I wouldn't swap my manual for one.
If you don't have the paddles then it's not the most exciting thing in the world, and tbh I really didn't get on with my C2S at all until I had the wheel retrofitted. From that point however, it became like having two very different cars. The first you leave in auto and pootle around on motorways and through town with, barely getting past 2K rpm before the 'box shifts you up a gear. The second car is the fun one.
Drop it into manual mode and it feels like a genuine supercar, and when you hit the right bit of road then banging through the gearbox is equally as satisfying as driving a manual car, just in a completely different way. You can concentrate on your lines and steering technique more than with a stick shift car, and for me it makes it a very exhilarating drive.
I don't think a PDK car is necessarily better than a manual, but for me it makes the car into what I specifically wanted.
Drop it into manual mode and it feels like a genuine supercar, and when you hit the right bit of road then banging through the gearbox is equally as satisfying as driving a manual car, just in a completely different way. You can concentrate on your lines and steering technique more than with a stick shift car, and for me it makes it a very exhilarating drive.
I don't think a PDK car is necessarily better than a manual, but for me it makes the car into what I specifically wanted.
I've had my PDK-equipped C4S since the end of February and have covered over 3,000 miles in it since then, on everything from demanding twisties, through towns, and down the autobahnen at 170+ mph (I work in Frankfurt, and my car's here with me).
Most of my driving sees PDK stuck in auto mode and sport off.
In that mode, it's amazingly slick, smooth and rarely caught out. It's also incredibly economical, something I genuinely hadn't expected when I bought it.
In sport mode, the box seems almost telepathic, with up- and down-shifts happening pretty much where I would do them myself.
In sport plus mode, the revs are held high and you're constantly encouraged to push on... it's like having a little devil on your shoulder going "go on, just a bit faster". So you do
And of course there's good old-fashioned manual mode. It'll change down when you come to a halt, but unlike conventional autos and even some sequential boxes, it won't change up at the red line. The exception is when you push past the kick-down detent, when it reverts to auto mode until you lift off to above the detent again.
In other words, manual mode is genuinely predictable so long as you understand how it's designed to work (and many who post against it don't).
I've used launch control a couple of times just for the sake of using it. Never as part of the traffic light grand prix though. It's an amazing, drama-free system and absolutely miles away from the wheel-spinning insanity of my old SMG-boxed E46 M3.
In fact, it's absolutely everything I would want from a daily driver and I have no desire whatsoever to ever have anything else.
The only time I ever miss a clutch is when I fancy a bit of a blip going through a tunnel or something. Slipping to neutral, or changing down and letting it roar that way isn't quite the same, but it's a small thing to give up for all the benefits.
There will always be some people that will miss having a clutch to play with. If you're one of those people then, yes, PDK will be a novelty for you and it'll get old fast.
But that's not through any shortcoming of the box itself.
Most of my driving sees PDK stuck in auto mode and sport off.
In that mode, it's amazingly slick, smooth and rarely caught out. It's also incredibly economical, something I genuinely hadn't expected when I bought it.
In sport mode, the box seems almost telepathic, with up- and down-shifts happening pretty much where I would do them myself.
In sport plus mode, the revs are held high and you're constantly encouraged to push on... it's like having a little devil on your shoulder going "go on, just a bit faster". So you do
And of course there's good old-fashioned manual mode. It'll change down when you come to a halt, but unlike conventional autos and even some sequential boxes, it won't change up at the red line. The exception is when you push past the kick-down detent, when it reverts to auto mode until you lift off to above the detent again.
In other words, manual mode is genuinely predictable so long as you understand how it's designed to work (and many who post against it don't).
I've used launch control a couple of times just for the sake of using it. Never as part of the traffic light grand prix though. It's an amazing, drama-free system and absolutely miles away from the wheel-spinning insanity of my old SMG-boxed E46 M3.
In fact, it's absolutely everything I would want from a daily driver and I have no desire whatsoever to ever have anything else.
The only time I ever miss a clutch is when I fancy a bit of a blip going through a tunnel or something. Slipping to neutral, or changing down and letting it roar that way isn't quite the same, but it's a small thing to give up for all the benefits.
There will always be some people that will miss having a clutch to play with. If you're one of those people then, yes, PDK will be a novelty for you and it'll get old fast.
But that's not through any shortcoming of the box itself.
tuffer said:
Only thing is miss is the ability to dip the clutch and blip the throttle just for the hell of it.
Isn't that the truth!After a year with my PDK '7S I can honestly say the damned thing is absolutely blo*dy infuriating. In normal mode it wants to be in top too soon, it won't drop a gear when you need it to (and if you prod the throttle a bit harder out of absolute frustration, it'll drop 4 gears and rev the nuts off the engine just to make you look a prat)! If you're pootling along a road and come to a corner, the damned computer doesn't know you need 2nd for the bend not 6th (just like all autos) and you're then using the paddles (don't even get me started on the useless button option) furiously to be in the right gear for the bend. Sport mode is just a little less recalcitrant but all the above still applies one way or another. Sport Plus is OK (sort of) on a real hoon but won't change up if you back off a bit - it's not 'clever' (or is that 'adaptive') it just stays between approx 4000 and 7500rpm. Big Deal.
In short, you can't trust a mindless computer to make decisions for you as it will almost always get them wrong. Truthfully PDK is not a driver's transmission at all. It's fine around town and when driving at up to 5/10ths. After that it's just a mess. Top Gear hated it. More importantly, Needell and Plato on 5th Gear absolutely slated it for never being in the right gear and taking away the driver's control.
On balance, the downsides of the PDK vastly outweigh the so-called benefits. I can honestly do without launch control (how often do you REALLY use it) and I don't need to race every plonker on earth off the lights either so where's the advantage? (As an aside, Car and Driver got the same 3.9 0-60 time from a Gen-2 '7S manual as they did from a Gen-2 '7S PDK so driven with no mechanical sympathy, the manual's actually no slower). Also, the '7S PDK has the same power output as the manual but the car's significantly heavier, so there must be a performance penalty somewhere. Finally, as the guy I quoted above said - you can't blip the throttle. That's the last straw - no flamboyance or exuberance allowed! Definitely manual for me from now on.
PS - These comments apply to the '7S. PDK in a Turbo makes a lot more sense as the turbos don't go off boost during gear changes so there's a very significant advantage there. Not driven a Turbo PDK, so I can't comment subjectively.
I spent a day with a PDK 997C2S and was very impressed with it overall. Launch control is just sublime and really shocked me.
BUT, its not for me. I just couldnt get it to do what I wanted it to do. Even in Sport Plus and 'manual' it overides your decisions! VERY frustrating.
Ultimately, it removes a big fat chunky layer of driving pleasure that a manual gives.
After my day with the car, I got into my 16 year old manual 911 and fell in love again.
However, these auto boxes are getting better and its only a matter of time before even I am won over. Not that I will have a choice as there will be no manual gearboxes in 10 years time.
MTR
BUT, its not for me. I just couldnt get it to do what I wanted it to do. Even in Sport Plus and 'manual' it overides your decisions! VERY frustrating.
Ultimately, it removes a big fat chunky layer of driving pleasure that a manual gives.
After my day with the car, I got into my 16 year old manual 911 and fell in love again.
However, these auto boxes are getting better and its only a matter of time before even I am won over. Not that I will have a choice as there will be no manual gearboxes in 10 years time.
MTR
mollytherocker said:
I just couldnt get it to do what I wanted it to do. Even in Sport Plus and 'manual' it overides your decisions! VERY frustrating.
Ultimately, it removes a big fat chunky layer of driving pleasure that a manual gives.
Precisely. IMHO PDK is for people either with no interest in (or who derive no enjoyment from) driving.Ultimately, it removes a big fat chunky layer of driving pleasure that a manual gives.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Friday 17th June 08:48
khushy said:
PDK + Sport Plus Mode + Manual + Paddles is where you wanna be!
But it still doesn't let me disconnect the drive to the transmission (as a clutch does) blip the throttle on down changes, rev match, heel & toe etc. - you get the picture. As was said above, a whole layer of driving pleasure gone missing.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff