Can I reject a second hand car? - Dealer saw me coming?
Discussion
Hi, I'm uncertain as to where I stand and I am hoping for a bit of advice from fellow PH members.
The situation is this:
Last week I bought a 2006 Vauxhall Signum 3.0 Diesel auto. (I know, hardly PH car!). I bought from a trader and paid around 3.5k. The car has just over 100k miles with all the correct service history/paperwork and I was told verbally I would get 1 month engine/gearbox warranty.
The problem is the car has an (intermittent) fault; the day after buying it thought it was possibly 'surging' slightly and appeared to be misfiring/idling roughly, but I put this down to me being paranoid and not used to driving an auto with a sensitve throttle.
When driving on the motorway today the car lost power and the "engine electronics/transmission electronics" warning light came on. I managed to get home (slowly) in limp mode and after turning the car off / on again the warning light as gone and it now appears to be running back at full power but still with the 'surging' / misfire around 1500-2000 rpm and poor idle.
Also, as part of the deal they MOT'd the car prior to collection (I was told it had a 'new' tyre but I think it is a part-worn). However I have since discovered (via the online check) that the car had a number of advisory issues (suspension springs, other tyres close to limit, etc) and the advisory slip was not given to me / disclosed.
Anyway, I took the car back and the dealer said he would get it 'scanned' and looked at later in the week. The problem being my research suggests this could be a difficult problem to identify and fix and I worry I could end up with a bodge repair and headache of a car once the 'warranty' is run out. Furthremore, their failure to provide the advisory slip on the MOT does not fill me with confidence.
Do I have any right to reject the car and get my cash back or am I being unreasonable in not giving them a chance to fix it? I have had it less than a week and driven approx 150miles.
The situation is this:
Last week I bought a 2006 Vauxhall Signum 3.0 Diesel auto. (I know, hardly PH car!). I bought from a trader and paid around 3.5k. The car has just over 100k miles with all the correct service history/paperwork and I was told verbally I would get 1 month engine/gearbox warranty.
The problem is the car has an (intermittent) fault; the day after buying it thought it was possibly 'surging' slightly and appeared to be misfiring/idling roughly, but I put this down to me being paranoid and not used to driving an auto with a sensitve throttle.
When driving on the motorway today the car lost power and the "engine electronics/transmission electronics" warning light came on. I managed to get home (slowly) in limp mode and after turning the car off / on again the warning light as gone and it now appears to be running back at full power but still with the 'surging' / misfire around 1500-2000 rpm and poor idle.
Also, as part of the deal they MOT'd the car prior to collection (I was told it had a 'new' tyre but I think it is a part-worn). However I have since discovered (via the online check) that the car had a number of advisory issues (suspension springs, other tyres close to limit, etc) and the advisory slip was not given to me / disclosed.
Anyway, I took the car back and the dealer said he would get it 'scanned' and looked at later in the week. The problem being my research suggests this could be a difficult problem to identify and fix and I worry I could end up with a bodge repair and headache of a car once the 'warranty' is run out. Furthremore, their failure to provide the advisory slip on the MOT does not fill me with confidence.
Do I have any right to reject the car and get my cash back or am I being unreasonable in not giving them a chance to fix it? I have had it less than a week and driven approx 150miles.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Monday 20th June 21:50
davepoth said:
You have to give them a chance to fix it. While you are there, ask about the advisory slip.
I'm not sure how I raise that question whilst keeping things friendly to be honest... 'excuse me, why did you not inform me before I handed over the cash, that the the MOT advisory slip shows the car will likely need £hundreds+ of work in the near future'I guess giving them a chance to fix it is the only option; I just worry that the job wont get done properly.
3.5k is probably nothing for some people but it is the most money I have ever spent on a car.... I know it is second hand but I would not expect it to be breaking down 5 days after purchase.
£3.5k is a lot of money on a second hand car and you have every right to expect it to be fit for purpose, and under the law the dealer is required to ensure it is fit for purpose.
I think you would be well within your rights to reject the car considering the dealer with-held important information about the results of the MOT.
How did you pay? If credit card or debit card, contact the issuer immediately and ask about your rights, if bank transfer contact your bank.
Why not go to a Citizens Advice Bureau and get some advice? What sort of dealer is it, nice or nasty? If they are reputable they may just take the car back having been caught out, if they're a dodgy dealer with loads of ccj's against them then no hope, it's important to know who you're up against before taking any sort of action.
Are you a member of the AA or RAC? If so they probably have people who can advise you on this.
Good luck anyway!
I think you would be well within your rights to reject the car considering the dealer with-held important information about the results of the MOT.
How did you pay? If credit card or debit card, contact the issuer immediately and ask about your rights, if bank transfer contact your bank.
Why not go to a Citizens Advice Bureau and get some advice? What sort of dealer is it, nice or nasty? If they are reputable they may just take the car back having been caught out, if they're a dodgy dealer with loads of ccj's against them then no hope, it's important to know who you're up against before taking any sort of action.
Are you a member of the AA or RAC? If so they probably have people who can advise you on this.
Good luck anyway!
Edited by bozmandb9 on Monday 20th June 22:20
steveo3002 said:
theyre just advisorys ,some bits n bobs go on for years and its just the tester covering his back
the car passed its test , cant really see you arguing that xyz might need replacing sometime over the next few years
what are the advisorys anyway?
First two were coil springs corroded and all 3 other tyres close to legal limit. There was something to do with a ball joint? I can't remember without looking again. - Wear and tear items I guess.the car passed its test , cant really see you arguing that xyz might need replacing sometime over the next few years
what are the advisorys anyway?
To be honest it is not the advisory that worries me as I know the MOT station is just covering their arse and I don't expect a 2006 car to be mechanically perfect anyway. The price was already agreed, so it is more the fact that they were dishonest? in not providing it with the other documents at the point of sale that bothers me. That issue, when combined with the very part-worn tyre they fitted, makes me wonder if I will get a proper repair of the fault or not.
The sudden loss of power was quite scary to be honest... I was very nearly rear ended by a lorry and I cannot be driving around in a car which is not safe/reliable.
bozmandb9 said:
£3.5k is a lot of money on a second hand car and you have every right to expect it to be fit for purpose, and under the law the dealer is required to ensure it is fit for purpose.
I think you would be well within your rights to reject the car considering the dealer with-held important information about the results of the MOT.
Hi, thanks for that. I'm a member of the RAC so I might see if they can help. I contacted consumer direct today who also said I would be within my rights to attempt to reject it as 'unfit for purpose' as I have only had it 5 days. It just seems a bit unreasoble I guess, but if I let them 'repair' it and the job isn't done right and the fault happens again later on it becomes tricky.I think you would be well within your rights to reject the car considering the dealer with-held important information about the results of the MOT.
Edited by bozmandb9 on Monday 20th June 22:20
The place is a medium sized garage, maybe 60 cars for sale. They seemed a bit nonplussed when I went back today and said come back tomorrow basically, but nothing nasty.
To be honest I have only had the car 5 days but I have lost all confidence already! I would rather get my money back unless I am assured of it being fixed properly first time.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Monday 20th June 22:36
Sounds like your car went into 'limp' mode where you get no turbo assistance and a service indicator warning. This can be caused by many diffent things, the only sure way is to plug it into diagnostics and begin there. As said at this stage you won't be able to refuse the car as you have to let them repair the current problem then see how it goes, sounds like you already have doubts with the trader due to them seemingly not including an advisory sheet in the paperwork. Let us know how you get on, good luck.
Diesel's that are either high mileage or older (6-7yrs+) are a heck of a gamble.
Why would someone who doesn't appear to know much about cars buy a 3L 100K mile Signum? Hmm, perhaps the answer is in the question.
There's another thread running from a guy with a 10yr old X5 who says he knows nothing about cars and is dismayed by a 2 grand+ estimate from the dealer after the brake-pad warning light came on.
Why would someone who doesn't appear to know much about cars buy a 3L 100K mile Signum? Hmm, perhaps the answer is in the question.
There's another thread running from a guy with a 10yr old X5 who says he knows nothing about cars and is dismayed by a 2 grand+ estimate from the dealer after the brake-pad warning light came on.
Edited by Deva Link on Monday 20th June 23:33
snotrag said:
Legal Bods - I seem to recall that its actually an offence to withold, or split from the rest of the documents, the 'advisory' section of an MOT where one has been issued?
Its very naughty by the garage and that fact along would have really pissed me off.
I've seen this question before and, bizarrely, the selling garage doesn't even have to give the MOT certificate - as they paid for it, it's their property! VOSA say everything you need is online.Its very naughty by the garage and that fact along would have really pissed me off.
Deva Link said:
I've seen this question before and, bizarrely, the selling garage doesn't even have to give the MOT certificate - as they paid for it, it's their property! VOSA say everything you need is online.
Thats different. If they'd kept the whole thing, fine. But are they allowed to split the advisory sheet, from the Pass sheet? I dont think they are?
snotrag said:
Deva Link said:
I've seen this question before and, bizarrely, the selling garage doesn't even have to give the MOT certificate - as they paid for it, it's their property! VOSA say everything you need is online.
Thats different. If they'd kept the whole thing, fine. But are they allowed to split the advisory sheet, from the Pass sheet? I dont think they are?
However, on the front of the MOT certificate there is a box that tells if an advisory notice was issued.
I'd have read what i was given and asked before i took the car away TBH.
snotrag said:
But are they allowed to split the advisory sheet, from the Pass sheet? I dont think they are?
It's a red herring anyway, they don't mean much, especially in the context of the car in the OP, where they're not going to repair anything unless they have to.
Pentoman said:
I sympathise and would feel right awful in your position. But 3.5k for a 2006 is pretty cheap and perhaps you get what you pay for. Might have to chalk some of this one down to experience.
Yup, the dealer has a legal obligation for longer than a month (either 3 or 6, can't remember). But the degree of his obligation (should he cover all faults with no contribution from the buyer? or cover 75% of costs of repair and the buyer pays the rest? 50%? or just cover a small part of the big faults and stuff the minor issues like dashboard rattles? etc) is open to negotiation over the course of this 3 or 6 month period as well.But it's more fundamental than this. The car seems to have a pre-existing fault (from my reading of the OP) and it's (quite possibly, from your account) dangerous if it happens in front of an HGV on the motorway, so get proper legal advice pronto on rejecting it.
Don't be fobbed off.
In the meantime, try looking on Vauxhall forums for people with similar/identical problems. Car Mechanics forum is also good for this type of thing. Forewarn yourself with insight into the problem and its origins and possible cures, then when the dealer bluffs you after the first attempt at repair you will feel more confident in asserting that the car will be rejected next time it 'packs up' (as clearly the dealer has just shown in his bluffing that he has not got the foggiest
).An update for anyone who is interested:
Basically I took the car back today and they read the (numerous) fault codes. Much debate / arguing followoed... mainly over whether the fault was pre-existing or not and them then trying to get me to pay for the part to do the repairs!
Their mechanic kind of let the cat out of the bag when he test drove it: He told me he had driven it back (from auction?) and it felt a bit funny then... so they obviously knew all was not 100% before selling.
To cut a long story short they eventually agreed to give a full refund once they realised I wasn't going to be fobbed off.
I think I avoided a lemon tbh, although I will still be about £100 out of pocket at the end of the day.
Now looking for another one or similar to replace it...
Basically I took the car back today and they read the (numerous) fault codes. Much debate / arguing followoed... mainly over whether the fault was pre-existing or not and them then trying to get me to pay for the part to do the repairs!
Their mechanic kind of let the cat out of the bag when he test drove it: He told me he had driven it back (from auction?) and it felt a bit funny then... so they obviously knew all was not 100% before selling.
To cut a long story short they eventually agreed to give a full refund once they realised I wasn't going to be fobbed off.
I think I avoided a lemon tbh, although I will still be about £100 out of pocket at the end of the day.
Now looking for another one or similar to replace it...
VolvoT5 said:
An update for anyone who is interested:
Basically I took the car back today and they read the (numerous) fault codes. Much debate / arguing followoed... mainly over whether the fault was pre-existing or not and them then trying to get me to pay for the part to do the repairs!
Their mechanic kind of let the cat out of the bag when he test drove it: He told me he had driven it back (from auction?) and it felt a bit funny then... so they obviously knew all was not 100% before selling.
To cut a long story short they eventually agreed to give a full refund once they realised I wasn't going to be fobbed off.
I think I avoided a lemon tbh, although I will still be about £100 out of pocket at the end of the day.
Now looking for another one or similar to replace it...
Good for you! Congratulations.Basically I took the car back today and they read the (numerous) fault codes. Much debate / arguing followoed... mainly over whether the fault was pre-existing or not and them then trying to get me to pay for the part to do the repairs!
Their mechanic kind of let the cat out of the bag when he test drove it: He told me he had driven it back (from auction?) and it felt a bit funny then... so they obviously knew all was not 100% before selling.
To cut a long story short they eventually agreed to give a full refund once they realised I wasn't going to be fobbed off.
I think I avoided a lemon tbh, although I will still be about £100 out of pocket at the end of the day.
Now looking for another one or similar to replace it...
Once you're unhappy with a purchase like this it's far better if you can get out of it. Buying a car at the top of your budget is daunting, whatever the figures involved, and you want to feel good about your purchase, once you start to regret the purchase it's unlikely to end well, so you did exactly the right thing.
I'm sure you'll do much better with your next purchase, just remember with cash in hand you'll be calling the shots, so bargain hard, and if anything doesn't feel right walk away!
oobster said:
Reasonable result, although perhaps take a mechanic along with you next time!
The funny thing is I took someone along with me who was supposed to know about these things........... I was a little unsure about buying it (gut instinct), but they assured me it was 'sound' and a good buy for the price...then the salesman jumped in and I was sold! For the replacement I'm either getting it AA/RAC inspected first or I may go for a very cheap petrol shed. It seems like there is too much electronics to go wrong with these modern diesel engines and when they do go wrong it requires a main dealer to diagnose/fix.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff