Removal Of Cylinder Head
Discussion
shpub said:I appreciate your advice but have already stripped the unit down including remval of crank, and 1 bank of pistons as the engine was bought off ebay for spares with 1 head missing. I removed the front cover as the cam chain tensioner guides are bolted to both o/s head and block which is not that difficult as long as you remove the woodruff key befor you attempt to pull the front cover off. The crank was easy to remove once the sump was removed and one bank of pistons from the side with the missing head came out with ease. The head is released from the block on one side but I suspect the dowel is holding it at the front and reckon there must be a special tool to assist in removal. The strip down took most of the day to complete and the engine is not that difficult to work on compared to some engines I have experienced.
It won't budge until you have removed the front cover and that means removing the engine from the car and then setting the whole thing back up.
Basically it is a complete engine strip down. Something to leave to the professionals.
I really wish people would not treat this engine as a sacred horse. Its a flippin engine.
You see this a lot on this forum. 'Oooo don't do that its a professional job'
There IS NO SUCH THING as a professional job. Encouragement please rather than doomsaying.
No offence intended and good on you colin.
You see this a lot on this forum. 'Oooo don't do that its a professional job'
There IS NO SUCH THING as a professional job. Encouragement please rather than doomsaying.
No offence intended and good on you colin.
[quote=Julian64]I really wish people would not treat this engine as a sacred horse. Its a flippin engine.
You see this a lot on this forum. 'Oooo don't do that its a professional job'
There IS NO SUCH THING as a professional job. Encouragement please rather than doomsaying.
No offence intended and good on you colin.[/I fully agree Julian, the APJ engine is as I say quite basic in build and I am sure if all the necessary tools and manuals were available people might consider doing a bit more themselves.I will keep you all posted on progress, however this will probably be in a few months as I have to go back to work this weekend to prepare start up and commissioning procedures for the biggest onshore oil and gas facility currently being built in Baku. When this is on line hopefully price of oil will drop.
You see this a lot on this forum. 'Oooo don't do that its a professional job'
There IS NO SUCH THING as a professional job. Encouragement please rather than doomsaying.
No offence intended and good on you colin.[/I fully agree Julian, the APJ engine is as I say quite basic in build and I am sure if all the necessary tools and manuals were available people might consider doing a bit more themselves.I will keep you all posted on progress, however this will probably be in a few months as I have to go back to work this weekend to prepare start up and commissioning procedures for the biggest onshore oil and gas facility currently being built in Baku. When this is on line hopefully price of oil will drop.
Julian64 said:
I really wish people would not treat this engine as a sacred horse. Its a flippin engine.
You see this a lot on this forum. 'Oooo don't do that its a professional job'
There IS NO SUCH THING as a professional job. Encouragement please rather than doomsaying.
Well done that man! I wish more people would open there eyes to just how simple this engine is.
Hear, hear, it is a bloody engine, designed by humans, built by humans (in a shed). As far as I can tell we are all humans and so should (in theory) face no problems taking them to bits and getting them back together in one bit.
I'd love to have a go, if only I had the time, space and cash.
D
I'd love to have a go, if only I had the time, space and cash.
D
Ouch!
Let's put this in perspective.
Yes I am sure that there are some owners who could do this type of thing... but to be honest the majority don't have the knowledge/skill/tools/time etc to do this.
So let's not get into this "I can do it so it is not rocket science and we should encourage everyone to do it" attitude and recognise that there is a wide range of skill sets and experience amongst the people who read these pages. We should not underestimate the potential damage and cost that can be done by someone who is not capable of doing the job. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in these cases. Knowing,understanding and matching your capabilities to the job requirements is key.
Taking the heads off on a AJP is a doddle once the cover is off, timing gear removed etc. Yes it is nuts and bolts. Big meccano. Easier than some engines to take apart. Don't disagree.
Putting it back ain't so easy because all the valve timing has to be reset etc which is not a trivial job, even for someone who knows what they are doing. This is not a simple drop the head back and tighten the bolts which is the case with most other engines.
THis makes it a lot more complicated than removing a few bolts on a cylinder head and lifting it off. Hence the professional comment. This is a complicated job. Think twice about doing it. For the majority, that means getting someone who does know to do it.
For some this presents a challenge because it isn't rocket science etc so it can be done. However this advice is not applicable for the majority of owners and the best advice as a whole is don't meddle.
Let's put this in perspective.
Yes I am sure that there are some owners who could do this type of thing... but to be honest the majority don't have the knowledge/skill/tools/time etc to do this.
So let's not get into this "I can do it so it is not rocket science and we should encourage everyone to do it" attitude and recognise that there is a wide range of skill sets and experience amongst the people who read these pages. We should not underestimate the potential damage and cost that can be done by someone who is not capable of doing the job. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in these cases. Knowing,understanding and matching your capabilities to the job requirements is key.
Taking the heads off on a AJP is a doddle once the cover is off, timing gear removed etc. Yes it is nuts and bolts. Big meccano. Easier than some engines to take apart. Don't disagree.
Putting it back ain't so easy because all the valve timing has to be reset etc which is not a trivial job, even for someone who knows what they are doing. This is not a simple drop the head back and tighten the bolts which is the case with most other engines.
THis makes it a lot more complicated than removing a few bolts on a cylinder head and lifting it off. Hence the professional comment. This is a complicated job. Think twice about doing it. For the majority, that means getting someone who does know to do it.
For some this presents a challenge because it isn't rocket science etc so it can be done. However this advice is not applicable for the majority of owners and the best advice as a whole is don't meddle.
Colin
Didn't appreciate you were working on your spare engine.
I am not aware of any special tool that is needed. The main issue is getting the front cover off and so on which you have already done. Probably a sticky dowel or something. Rubber mallet time as Julian suggested.
The big challenge you will have is in resetting all the valve timing and dialling in the cam when the engine is reassembled. There are no TDC marks and TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. Ideally this should be marked up on dissassembly initially to make life a lot easier as it will allow a rough positioning to be obtained which can be adjusted. Without this, it can be a long job working out it all out and making sure that it is right.
This is why I said it is not for the faint hearted.
Didn't appreciate you were working on your spare engine.
I am not aware of any special tool that is needed. The main issue is getting the front cover off and so on which you have already done. Probably a sticky dowel or something. Rubber mallet time as Julian suggested.
The big challenge you will have is in resetting all the valve timing and dialling in the cam when the engine is reassembled. There are no TDC marks and TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. Ideally this should be marked up on dissassembly initially to make life a lot easier as it will allow a rough positioning to be obtained which can be adjusted. Without this, it can be a long job working out it all out and making sure that it is right.
This is why I said it is not for the faint hearted.
shpub said:
Yes I am sure that there are some owners who could do this type of thing... but to be honest the majority don't have the knowledge/skill/tools/time etc to do this.
...there is a wide range of skill sets and experience amongst the people who read these pages.
Couldn't agree more...
Checking the oil correctly and topping it up right severely stretches my abilities
Cheers
DC
[quote=shpub]Colin
Didn't appreciate you were working on your spare engine.
I am not aware of any special tool that is needed. The main issue is getting the front cover off and so on which you have already done. Probably a sticky dowel or something. Rubber mallet time as Julian suggested.
The big challenge you will have is in resetting all the valve timing and dialling in the cam when the engine is reassembled. There are no TDC marks and TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. Ideally this should be marked up on dissassembly initially to make life a lot easier as it will allow a rough positioning to be obtained which can be adjusted. Without this, it can be a long job working out it all out and making sure that it is right.
This is why I said it is not for the faint hearted.[/
Thanks for your advice, and I have now managed to remove the head. I agree with you regarding your comments and only decided to strip the unit for spares as when I aquired it one of the heads was missing. If I can find a spare head I may contemplate on re assembly. I will post some pictures later just so people can get the chance to see what makes up the APJ. ]
Didn't appreciate you were working on your spare engine.
I am not aware of any special tool that is needed. The main issue is getting the front cover off and so on which you have already done. Probably a sticky dowel or something. Rubber mallet time as Julian suggested.
The big challenge you will have is in resetting all the valve timing and dialling in the cam when the engine is reassembled. There are no TDC marks and TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. Ideally this should be marked up on dissassembly initially to make life a lot easier as it will allow a rough positioning to be obtained which can be adjusted. Without this, it can be a long job working out it all out and making sure that it is right.
This is why I said it is not for the faint hearted.[/
Thanks for your advice, and I have now managed to remove the head. I agree with you regarding your comments and only decided to strip the unit for spares as when I aquired it one of the heads was missing. If I can find a spare head I may contemplate on re assembly. I will post some pictures later just so people can get the chance to see what makes up the APJ. ]
shpub said:
Colin
Didn't appreciate you were working on your spare engine.
I am not aware of any special tool that is needed. The main issue is getting the front cover off and so on which you have already done. Probably a sticky dowel or something. Rubber mallet time as Julian suggested.
The big challenge you will have is in resetting all the valve timing and dialling in the cam when the engine is reassembled. There are no TDC marks and TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. Ideally this should be marked up on dissassembly initially to make life a lot easier as it will allow a rough positioning to be obtained which can be adjusted. Without this, it can be a long job working out it all out and making sure that it is right.
This is why I said it is not for the faint hearted.
Thanks for your advice, and I have now managed to remove the head. I agree with you regarding your comments and only decided to strip the unit for spares as when I aquired it one of the heads was missing. If I can find a spare head I may contemplate on re assembly. I will post some pictures later just so people can get the chance to see what makes up the APJ.
(sorry, the quoting thing was bugging me
) Oh and it's
AJP not APJ 
>> Edited by arcbeer on Friday 28th May 14:49
shpub said:
TDC should be established from Valve lift as this is more accurate than using the piston rise. .
interesting comment Steve .. care to explain why? I'm struggling to see how you can work crank timing off the camshaft, it spins at half engine speed so if you're 2 deg out on the cam you're 4 deg out at the crank, and there's no guarantee the cam was timed in correctly in the first place ..
Basically a comment from Andy during the Tower View session who has found that using the piston to find TDC is not reliable as it is difficult to exactly establish where it is. i.e. it will be at TDC for several degrees of turn. He has found that then using the valve lift to confirm/adjust this he can get a more accurate/repeatable result.
BTW the cam timing on the engine was wildly out as was the shimming. Result of a lack of TLC after it left your hands Joolz
BTW the cam timing on the engine was wildly out as was the shimming. Result of a lack of TLC after it left your hands Joolz
shpub said:
Ouch!
Let's put this in perspective.
Yes I am sure that there are some owners who could do this type of thing... but to be honest the majority don't have the knowledge/skill/tools/time etc to do this.
So let's not get into this "I can do it so it is not rocket science and we should encourage everyone to do it" attitude and recognise that there is a wide range of skill sets and experience amongst the people who read these pages. We should not underestimate the potential damage and cost that can be done by someone who is not capable of doing the job. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in these cases. Knowing,understanding and matching your capabilities to the job requirements is key.
Steve
I appreciate your point and I was in no way suggesting that a foolhardy approach should be taken, after all the costs should it go wrong would be painful. However with the right tools, and information (and the level and detail of information is the key point) I would suspect that a lot of the mystery and associated fear of the AJP would vanish.
Anyway what are you doing posting on here, you have a cerbera book to write!
D
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