997C2s to M3 E92?
Discussion
Hi All,
I currently have a 911 (997 C2S) that has just turned 6 years of age. For various reasons (mainly excessive cost of servicing and engine reliability worries) I am considering selling and getting an M3. My budget is £33-£37k and I am yet to drive an M3 but I know the performance levels are very similar & I like the look of them. I drove the older M3 with the SMG gearbox and hated it so would probably go for a manual. Whats the difference between SMG & DCT? Any advice would be appreciated as I know little about current M3s, has there been any revised versions/facelifts in the last 3 years? Thanks in advance.
I currently have a 911 (997 C2S) that has just turned 6 years of age. For various reasons (mainly excessive cost of servicing and engine reliability worries) I am considering selling and getting an M3. My budget is £33-£37k and I am yet to drive an M3 but I know the performance levels are very similar & I like the look of them. I drove the older M3 with the SMG gearbox and hated it so would probably go for a manual. Whats the difference between SMG & DCT? Any advice would be appreciated as I know little about current M3s, has there been any revised versions/facelifts in the last 3 years? Thanks in advance.
dele said:
Only "facelifts" i can think of is that the i-Drive system was upgraded from 09 onwards iirc
just to clarify to OP - even the older I-drive (on june 2008 model) is a piece of piss to operate.as said, try the DCT, apparently they're leagues ahead of the SMG but manual M3s aren't hard to find. they're great cars, i doubt quite as rewarding as a C2s but it has 4 proper seats, a big boot and cost £20k less so...it does pretty well to be honest. just find a nice one with FSH and warranty
not heard of any major problems with them yet.
Deano997 said:
Without wishing to sound too dumb, what is it??!!
electronic damper control (or damping, i can't remember which)basically allows you to run the suspension firm for when you want to go round corners a little more quickly and generally feel a little more planted. and you can have it softer for a slightly more relaxed ride.
i'll be honest and say the difference is far from massive, but it is noticeable, particularly on rough roads.
Electronic Damper Control - you can set Comfort, Sport or Sport Plus. I have it and think it is worthwhile, but people who don't have it still love their M3's. Cars without it are probably close to the Sport setting which I would use for spirited road driving. Comfort is a little more comfortable for every day - though still perhaps firmer than a C2S. Sport Plus is good for the track.
Other comments. The M3 is probably a bit faster in a straight line (Gen 2 has probably caught it up), has a higher revving engine, nicer interior, much quieter at motorway cruising speed, though louder under acceleration, uses more petrol and so has shorter range, less feelsome steering, and better minor equipment. Even the earlier iDrives are better than pre Gen 2 Porsches, 2009 onwards ones are very good.
I agree you should try DCT before deciding against; it is technically brilliant, pretty much the same as PDK but with more logical controls, it is simply a more efficient way to drive, but of course deprives you of the involvement and satisfaction you can get from a manual. It is worth mentioning that M3 manuals are not nearly as good as 997 ones.
Other comments. The M3 is probably a bit faster in a straight line (Gen 2 has probably caught it up), has a higher revving engine, nicer interior, much quieter at motorway cruising speed, though louder under acceleration, uses more petrol and so has shorter range, less feelsome steering, and better minor equipment. Even the earlier iDrives are better than pre Gen 2 Porsches, 2009 onwards ones are very good.
I agree you should try DCT before deciding against; it is technically brilliant, pretty much the same as PDK but with more logical controls, it is simply a more efficient way to drive, but of course deprives you of the involvement and satisfaction you can get from a manual. It is worth mentioning that M3 manuals are not nearly as good as 997 ones.
waremark said:
Electronic Damper Control - you can set Comfort, Sport or Sport Plus. I have it and think it is worthwhile, but people who don't have it still love their M3's. Cars without it are probably close to the Sport setting which I would use for spirited road driving. Comfort is a little more comfortable for every day - though still perhaps firmer than a C2S. Sport Plus is good for the track.
Other comments. The M3 is probably a bit faster in a straight line (Gen 2 has probably caught it up), has a higher revving engine, nicer interior, much quieter at motorway cruising speed, though louder under acceleration, uses more petrol and so has shorter range, less feelsome steering, and better minor equipment. Even the earlier iDrives are better than pre Gen 2 Porsches, 2009 onwards ones are very good.
I agree you should try DCT before deciding against; it is technically brilliant, pretty much the same as PDK but with more logical controls, it is simply a more efficient way to drive, but of course deprives you of the involvement and satisfaction you can get from a manual. It is worth mentioning that M3 manuals are not nearly as good as 997 ones.
Other comments. The M3 is probably a bit faster in a straight line (Gen 2 has probably caught it up), has a higher revving engine, nicer interior, much quieter at motorway cruising speed, though louder under acceleration, uses more petrol and so has shorter range, less feelsome steering, and better minor equipment. Even the earlier iDrives are better than pre Gen 2 Porsches, 2009 onwards ones are very good.
I agree you should try DCT before deciding against; it is technically brilliant, pretty much the same as PDK but with more logical controls, it is simply a more efficient way to drive, but of course deprives you of the involvement and satisfaction you can get from a manual. It is worth mentioning that M3 manuals are not nearly as good as 997 ones.
+1
t8cmf said:
waremark said:
It is worth mentioning that M3 manuals are not nearly as good as 997 ones.
Would a Quickshift kit improve the gearchange? I know that a few owners complain about the notchy gearchange but I absolutely have to have a manual to feel more connected to the car.
t8cmf said:
Would a Quickshift kit improve the gearchange?
I know that a few owners complain about the notchy gearchange but I absolutely have to have a manual to feel more connected to the car.
I don't think the M3 gearchange is bad for a perfomance saloon, it is just that the 997 is very good.I know that a few owners complain about the notchy gearchange but I absolutely have to have a manual to feel more connected to the car.
A friend has a DCT M3 and we have compared to my manual driving one after the other. There is no doubt the DCT is an amazing piece of technology and gets the car from A to B quicker and with both hands on the wheel, but I just don't want one in my car.
I guess it depends on personal preference and the type of driving you do.
Ive had this E92 from new (2008) and its a keeper. She's covered 34000 miles and bar a couple of stone chips is pretty much like new. She doesnt come out that often though and I avoid crap weather. I'm actually looking forward to taking her out one sunny day in 2031 and someone coming over and saying, "Wow, that vintage M3 is like new". I wonder if Ill make it? :-)
I previously had a manual Mk1 06 TT 3.2 but I ordered that with a manual box. I know all modern cars have driver aids but Ive always felt the DSG/DCT etc gearboxes were a step too far. I enjoy changing gears anyway.
I find the manual box absolutely fine. I heel toe habitually and its fine for that (better when in m-mode/power button is pressed as the throttle reacts more quickly).
The engine is superb. Between 5000 and 8400 rpm its fantastic.
Its fast, comfy, quiet, noisy, looks great, feels great, works as a sports car, works as a business car, works as a lairy tail out b*stard, works as a family car and as a motorway cruiser. Seats 4 adults easily too. Im off to the Festival of Speed tomorrow with my Dad and Brother and we will have plenty of room, comfort and gadgets (mine's loaded with all but the TV). Ive also had mine round Croft and it was great.
Its so communicative and easy to handle I find myself kicking the rear out just for the hell of it.
Personally I love the looks, especially the white on black (I dechromed mine and it has black everything/carbon badges).
Negatives...
The standard brakes are crap.
Lairy in the wet (err, I think thats a negative).
White paint is a bar steward to look after.
By the way, my previous car had red leather and it was proper red (AUDI), I got black on this one as the Fox Red looks too "lobster" for my tastes, a bit washed out.
If you're near York you're welcome round at mine for a spin.
I previously had a manual Mk1 06 TT 3.2 but I ordered that with a manual box. I know all modern cars have driver aids but Ive always felt the DSG/DCT etc gearboxes were a step too far. I enjoy changing gears anyway.
I find the manual box absolutely fine. I heel toe habitually and its fine for that (better when in m-mode/power button is pressed as the throttle reacts more quickly).
The engine is superb. Between 5000 and 8400 rpm its fantastic.
Its fast, comfy, quiet, noisy, looks great, feels great, works as a sports car, works as a business car, works as a lairy tail out b*stard, works as a family car and as a motorway cruiser. Seats 4 adults easily too. Im off to the Festival of Speed tomorrow with my Dad and Brother and we will have plenty of room, comfort and gadgets (mine's loaded with all but the TV). Ive also had mine round Croft and it was great.
Its so communicative and easy to handle I find myself kicking the rear out just for the hell of it.
Personally I love the looks, especially the white on black (I dechromed mine and it has black everything/carbon badges).
Negatives...
The standard brakes are crap.
Lairy in the wet (err, I think thats a negative).
White paint is a bar steward to look after.
By the way, my previous car had red leather and it was proper red (AUDI), I got black on this one as the Fox Red looks too "lobster" for my tastes, a bit washed out.
If you're near York you're welcome round at mine for a spin.
Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 1st July 23:39
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