Donor Engine RWD or FWD ( newbie )

[JRzwevegem]

Hi,

I'm currently building a mid engine kit car ( Radical style ) and i want to know what is best to use as a donor car. A FWD car or a RWD car. The reason why I'm asking this is because I've noticed that most people us a FWD car.

The engines i'm thinking about are the following:
Alfa romeo 3.0 V6
Alfa romeo 2.5 V6
BMW 2.0i

The alfa's are my fovorite ( just love the brand ).
Does anyone have any experience with these engines?

[Sam_68]

If you're building a mid engined car, you're better off using the engine and gearbox from a front wheel drive car, as it allows you to simply shift the entire engine and gearbox backward to just in front of the rear axle. The only complication is then the gear linkage.

The gearbox from a front engined, rear wheel drive car won't work very well in a mid engined installation, because it is designed for the gearbox to be positioned at the front (usually), just behind the engine, with a propshaft connecting it to a separate differential at the rear. With a FWD car, the differential is integrated with the gearbox (called a 'transaxle' to suggest that the TRANSmission and AXLE are all in one unit).

[dave de roxby]

If it's a Radical style car, then I suggest you forget the Alfa Vs (nice engines but IMO too tall and heavy for your application) and also forget the BMW 2.0 litre (made for front engine/rear drive application, insufficient power per cubic displacement as standard and would cost more than it's worth to tune up, and it's a heavy lump).

If you like Alfas, then an earlier, aluminium block twin spark (ex 155 etc) would be a possible choice or you could consider an Audi, longitudinal variety with proper 'transaxle'. Just happen to have an Alfa 155 engine and box going cheap if you are anywhere near me! (West Yorks)

[rdodger]

Audi A4? Inline front engine with transaxle. Perfect for mid engine.

[The Game]

How about a Duratec V6? Mondeo ST's are cheap and plentiful.

[mirach]

i am currently developing a mid engine car and using the audi v6 from an a4. goes in lovely ,nice and short with driveshafts near the front of the box. well worth looking at and about 170hp in standard form and easily tuned

[JRzwevegem]

If the V6 engines of alfa romeo are to heavy, then what engines would you suggest?
No bike engines allowed ;-).

[dave de roxby]

JRzwevegem said:

If the V6 engines of alfa romeo are to heavy, then what engines would you suggest?
No bike engines allowed ;-).

Rather depends on your budget! If this is your first car, I would suggest Audi 1.8 (Turbo if possible) with is own transaxle (Audi A4) - a complete package, ready-to-go for mid-engined Radical type. Then you can play tunes!!

[JRzwevegem]

My budget for a complete donor car is about 1000€. So for that budget I don't think i will find a 1.8 audi turbo. Another engine i was thinking off was the opel 2.0 turbo from the calibra. But the problem with this is the fact that it is a 4wd car.

Is the 2.5 V6 then so much heavier? And how heavy is heavy?

My rolling chassis now weighs about 200 kg.

And I'm from Belgium so it isn't very easy to find a good engine. The most found cars are the bmw's.

Anyone els knows a small powerfull engine?

[dave de roxby]

JRzwevegem said:

My budget for a complete donor car is about 1000€. So for that budget I don't think i will find a 1.8 audi turbo. Another engine i was thinking off was the opel 2.0 turbo from the calibra. But the problem with this is the fact that it is a 4wd car.

Is the 2.5 V6 then so much heavier? And how heavy is heavy?

My rolling chassis now weighs about 200 kg.

And I'm from Belgium so it isn't very easy to find a good engine. The most found cars are the bmw's.

Anyone els knows a small powerfull engine?

We would need to know a bit more about the car to be able to offer good advice.

I take it the chassis is the one pictured in your membership page?


This chassis must have been built with a specific engine in mind? The dimensions of the engine bay will determine which engines you could use, assuming no modifications.

What will you be using the car for? Just fun or serious competition/ track days?

Without a picture and dimensions of the engine compartment, it is almost impossible to advise you. But, from the very look of the car, I doubt you will need much more than 130 hp to make this fly! Anything heavy or more powerful would just be a waste of time IMHO.

With your sort of budget, you need an existing engine/gearbox combination that will fit.

If you simply pick an engine, then try to connect it with a non-associated gearbox etc, you will need much engineering knowledge and facilities and a lot of money!

With your budget, may I suggest you look at older Audi 80s or even the Alfasud or early boxer-engined 145/6.

[JRzwevegem]

The car is a trackday only. No competition.

Ive bought the chassis from someone else. And he drove it with a VW Golf3 3.2 VR6 engine. So their is surely enough space for a 2.5 V6 from alfa romeo or another <3.0 engine. The only question is wich one.

The min of power output i want is 125 bhp.

And to be honest the main reason i am thinking of an alfa V6 ( or any other V6 ) is the sound ;-). But ill try to post some pics of the engine bay

[dave de roxby]

JRzwevegem said:

The car is a trackday only. No competition.

Ive bought the chassis from someone else. And he drove it with a VW Golf3 3.2 VR6 engine. So their is surely enough space for a 2.5 V6 from alfa romeo or another <3.0 engine. The only question is wich one.

The min of power output i want is 125 bhp.

And to be honest the main reason i am thinking of an alfa V6 ( or any other V6 ) is the sound ;-). But ill try to post some pics of the engine bay

With that information, I'm assuming the VW engine was mounted transversely, as in the donor car? If so, your Alfa V6 engine and fwd gearbox from something like a 164 would probably fit.

[JRzwevegem]

Here some pictures

[JRzwevegem]

In the last pic you see it with a 3.2 VR6

[ColinM50]

And what's wrong with the VW 3.2 engine then? Enough power there surely

[dave de roxby]

Hmmm. VW subframes front and rear! (Sorry, maybe not front)

I think the rear subframe might make the fitting of any engine other than a VW a bit tricky. But maybe not impossible - some careful measuring is called for.

Bet it oversteers like mad!

[JRzwevegem]

The VR6 engine was sold before i bought the chassis.

[JRzwevegem]

Found myself a donor car. It is a '99 ford mondeo with a 2.0 16v zetec engine.
With 130 bhp and 100.000 miles. In really good condition for a very small price ;-)

[dave de roxby]

JRzwevegem said:

Found myself a donor car. It is a '99 ford mondeo with a 2.0 16v zetec engine.
With 130 bhp and 100.000 miles. In really good condition for a very small price ;-)

That should work. However, I still wonder whether that VW subframe will needlessly complicate issues.

To keep things simple and save a few kgs, I would be thinking about ditching the subframe and welding in some additional chassis tubes to take the inner pick-up points of the existing rear wishbones. You should lower in your Zetec for a trial fit first and then design the added structure to include the new engine mounts. You'll also need to consider the best engine position relative to the position and movements of the drive shafts. And finally, you will need to organise joining the Ford output driveshafts to the outer ends of the (presumably) VW driveshaf/hub assemblies.

Good luck!

Edited by dave de roxby on Sunday 10th July 17:27

[Arthur Jackson]

I agree with Dave. That's been designed by simply joining the frame to the VW bits. You may well find it easiest to do the same with Mondeo bits inc uprights etc.