Is Cameron / Coalition going down in people's estimations
Discussion
I must admit I had high hopes for this Goverment (coalition) and Cameron but am bitterly disappointed. 
Debated many times before but the SDSR was a huge screw up. Cameron taking the choice personally to smash up new aircraft despite the Defence Secretary and Chief of Airstaff advising of the risk of cancellation and the huge capability gap. Effectively, personally ignoring the people who do the job.
The unfair Child Allowance where if you earn over 45k you lose child allowance, but if the pair of you earn 40k each you will still get it. How is that fair?
Cameron coming back from Europe and proudly boasting that the increase in contributions at 3% was a victory, when in fact it had been rumoured months before and had not even been finalised. A bit of PR showboating.
Employing and defending his PR man, ex-News of the World Editor (and friend) over the Phone Hacking scandal, only for him to later resign when things got too hot.
Blundering over employing a photographer on 30k-35k to follow him around.
The Forest Sell off where the Government hit opposition, then embarrasingly u-turned.
The Sports Budget where they U-turned.
The NHS reforms which were not thought out, announced, then embarrasingly u-turned.
The Reforms to prison sentencing which were ridiculous, and then again it was announced then embarrasingly u-turned.
He has increased the international Aid/Bribe Budget, which has left a lot of people concerned when cuts are being made at home.
Run into Libya (reminiscent of Blair) under the auspices of a No-Fly Zone, with a depleted and overworked military post SDSR, with no exit strategy. There was confusion in the Government and amongst the Senior Military whether Gaddaffi was a target or not and no clear objective.
Osbourne saying the Military action would not cost "Hundreds of Millions," when now with no end in sight, it has cost £250 million. How could they have got it so spectacularly wrong, when many were saying it would go on for many, many months?
Cameron telling concerned Navy and RAF Commanders who feel that long term ops will be difficult to sustain to "Do the Fighting and He'll do the talking." Nice of him wasn't it, you put your life on the line and keep quiet.
Now the reports of Bullying of an MP by Number 10, over the Circus Animals debate where the PM would "look Dimly" if he proceeded with the debate, it looks like he is trying to silence those in his party aswell.
I surely can't be the only one slightly concerned that we have got rid of one power hungry clueless lot and got another batch, that are out of touch, rush into decisions and then only u-turn when they hit significant opposition.
Worrying that in light of us needing strong,decisive leadership under the current tough climate that we have not got that. We have a PR Man that does not listen. Blair number 2?
Worrying also that the Tories will lose the next election, and Labour will be back in.
Just my view, it seems the Tory supporters are now more quiet than they were six months or a year ago. Are people losing faith in Cameron and his ability to lead?
Debated many times before but the SDSR was a huge screw up. Cameron taking the choice personally to smash up new aircraft despite the Defence Secretary and Chief of Airstaff advising of the risk of cancellation and the huge capability gap. Effectively, personally ignoring the people who do the job.
The unfair Child Allowance where if you earn over 45k you lose child allowance, but if the pair of you earn 40k each you will still get it. How is that fair?
Cameron coming back from Europe and proudly boasting that the increase in contributions at 3% was a victory, when in fact it had been rumoured months before and had not even been finalised. A bit of PR showboating.
Employing and defending his PR man, ex-News of the World Editor (and friend) over the Phone Hacking scandal, only for him to later resign when things got too hot.
Blundering over employing a photographer on 30k-35k to follow him around.
The Forest Sell off where the Government hit opposition, then embarrasingly u-turned.
The Sports Budget where they U-turned.
The NHS reforms which were not thought out, announced, then embarrasingly u-turned.
The Reforms to prison sentencing which were ridiculous, and then again it was announced then embarrasingly u-turned.
He has increased the international Aid/Bribe Budget, which has left a lot of people concerned when cuts are being made at home.
Run into Libya (reminiscent of Blair) under the auspices of a No-Fly Zone, with a depleted and overworked military post SDSR, with no exit strategy. There was confusion in the Government and amongst the Senior Military whether Gaddaffi was a target or not and no clear objective.
Osbourne saying the Military action would not cost "Hundreds of Millions," when now with no end in sight, it has cost £250 million. How could they have got it so spectacularly wrong, when many were saying it would go on for many, many months?
Cameron telling concerned Navy and RAF Commanders who feel that long term ops will be difficult to sustain to "Do the Fighting and He'll do the talking." Nice of him wasn't it, you put your life on the line and keep quiet.
Now the reports of Bullying of an MP by Number 10, over the Circus Animals debate where the PM would "look Dimly" if he proceeded with the debate, it looks like he is trying to silence those in his party aswell.
I surely can't be the only one slightly concerned that we have got rid of one power hungry clueless lot and got another batch, that are out of touch, rush into decisions and then only u-turn when they hit significant opposition.
Worrying that in light of us needing strong,decisive leadership under the current tough climate that we have not got that. We have a PR Man that does not listen. Blair number 2?
Worrying also that the Tories will lose the next election, and Labour will be back in.
Just my view, it seems the Tory supporters are now more quiet than they were six months or a year ago. Are people losing faith in Cameron and his ability to lead?
Its Blair Mk2. Yes he sounds good sometimes but nothing has changed.
He's had a bit of bad press recently so what does he do? starts a classic aunt sally to keep the faithful happy and has a go at absent fathers. Then what next oh yeah you won't be prosecuted in your own home if you use 'reasonable force' blah blah
He's had a bit of bad press recently so what does he do? starts a classic aunt sally to keep the faithful happy and has a go at absent fathers. Then what next oh yeah you won't be prosecuted in your own home if you use 'reasonable force' blah blah
I hoped for more too, there seems to be a lack of conviction with their policies, perhaps the move to the middle ground has left them a bit lost. Ideas such as shorter prison sentences are not at all conservative and would never play well to the electorate.
The overseas aid budget commitments seem ridiculous when they are allegedly trying to cut spending. The involvement in Libya is a mistake and an expensive one, we cannot afford to get involved in all these conflicts when we are cutting military spending and having smaller forces.
Perhaps the tories will try to blame the lib dems for the failures of the Coalition when it comes to the next election, they are just fortunate that labour is so inept.
The overseas aid budget commitments seem ridiculous when they are allegedly trying to cut spending. The involvement in Libya is a mistake and an expensive one, we cannot afford to get involved in all these conflicts when we are cutting military spending and having smaller forces.
Perhaps the tories will try to blame the lib dems for the failures of the Coalition when it comes to the next election, they are just fortunate that labour is so inept.
The last Conservative manifesto was clearly socialist.
Cameron is clearly a socialist, and he was clearly a socialist before the last election. If you had read the Labour and Conservative manifestos, then you would have realised that there was bugger all difference between them.
I genuinely struggle to understand why anybody voted Conservative to keep Labour out.
Dave Cameron finds it easy to work with Nick Clegg because they really do agree on most issues.
Don
--
Cameron is clearly a socialist, and he was clearly a socialist before the last election. If you had read the Labour and Conservative manifestos, then you would have realised that there was bugger all difference between them.
I genuinely struggle to understand why anybody voted Conservative to keep Labour out.
Dave Cameron finds it easy to work with Nick Clegg because they really do agree on most issues.
Don
--
don4l said:
The last Conservative manifesto was clearly socialist.
Cameron is clearly a socialist, and he was clearly a socialist before the last election. If you had read the Labour and Conservative manifestos, then you would have realised that there was bugger all difference between them.
I genuinely struggle to understand why anybody voted Conservative to keep Labour out.
Dave Cameron finds it easy to work with Nick Clegg because they really do agree on most issues.
Don
--
yep totaly agree ... I had no interest in voting for them at the last election They seemed to have little to offer conservtive voters.. but to be honest they lost me when treassa May coined the we are the nasty party and they started down the wishey washy blue labour path and around the same time elected camoron over david davis because cameron was a sort of pinko blair clone.. almost all the front bench are absulute tossers... RIP once great tory party maybe you will rise again and win back your core voters and a majorty at a general election...Cameron is clearly a socialist, and he was clearly a socialist before the last election. If you had read the Labour and Conservative manifestos, then you would have realised that there was bugger all difference between them.
I genuinely struggle to understand why anybody voted Conservative to keep Labour out.
Dave Cameron finds it easy to work with Nick Clegg because they really do agree on most issues.
Don
--
Wow. Just wow.
THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT.
We cannot afford to have a big armed forces any more if we want all the other stuff too without paying French levels of tax. People in this thread are alternatively moaning about milk snatching tories, as well as moaning about socialist tories.
The fact that everybody is hating them for being either too tory or not tory enough means they are in exactly the right place at the moment, being hated by everyone pretty evenly for having to do difficult things to sort out the utter clusterf
k left by the last government.
I mean strikes for fk's sake. What fking good are the teachers intending to do? Every parent in this country who works in the private sector has been scaled by their boiling piss this last week as they try to figure out how the hell to organise their day around the feckless s who would rather be outside moaning about their pension being reduced to merely substantially better than average. If they think any part of the populace on their side, apart from children who will spend the day smoking weed and drinking cider, they are deluded.
If I wasn't worried that by not working I would lose my job, I would be standing opposite them with a placard that read "Get back in the classroom you workshy tts".
THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT.
We cannot afford to have a big armed forces any more if we want all the other stuff too without paying French levels of tax. People in this thread are alternatively moaning about milk snatching tories, as well as moaning about socialist tories.
The fact that everybody is hating them for being either too tory or not tory enough means they are in exactly the right place at the moment, being hated by everyone pretty evenly for having to do difficult things to sort out the utter clusterf
k left by the last government. I mean strikes for f
k's sake. What fking good are the teachers intending to do? Every parent in this country who works in the private sector has been scaled by their boiling piss this last week as they try to figure out how the hell to organise their day around the feckless s who would rather be outside moaning about their pension being reduced to merely substantially better than average. If they think any part of the populace on their side, apart from children who will spend the day smoking weed and drinking cider, they are deluded.If I wasn't worried that by not working I would lose my job, I would be standing opposite them with a placard that read "Get back in the classroom you workshy t
ts".Had massive reservations about the NHS reforms at the time as they were announced too quickly after the election without proper consultation in my view. Same goes for the other embarassing u-turns.
Big let down - but perhaps this is coalition government? Thank god for Minigland that's all I can say, we don't want them in again.
Big let down - but perhaps this is coalition government? Thank god for Minigland that's all I can say, we don't want them in again.
I don't think Cameron is a socialist, but I do think he is a populist. That might sound like something obvious to say about a politician, but what I mean is that he is allowing immediate public reaction to dictate what he does and is acting as though he has no firm principles. No policy is safe from a negative poll reaction. What he does is intended to get good headlines and not resolve the major problems at hand.
The trouble with this is that it maintains the status quo. In order for major changes to be made, you need someone with enough belief in what they are doing to do it anyway, even if it is initially unpopular. Thatcher had that sort of determination, but I don't think Cameron does.
The wider problem with politics is that it is now headline lead, with no one willing to say anything that might upset someone. Every comment is jumped on and every word scrutinised and taken out of context as far as possible. The result is a bland political landscape where there is no room for idealism and little chance of anything positive happening.
The trouble with this is that it maintains the status quo. In order for major changes to be made, you need someone with enough belief in what they are doing to do it anyway, even if it is initially unpopular. Thatcher had that sort of determination, but I don't think Cameron does.
The wider problem with politics is that it is now headline lead, with no one willing to say anything that might upset someone. Every comment is jumped on and every word scrutinised and taken out of context as far as possible. The result is a bland political landscape where there is no room for idealism and little chance of anything positive happening.
Agree with tank slapper to quite an extent, but don't think it is too serious just yet. Bottom line is that No. 10 was a bit of a mess after the election and the ministries shot off in their own directions without much central coordination. A lot of the u-turns are indeed about populism, but the real problem is that the policies weren't sold properly to the public in the first place (and some were also daft) so it became inevitable that they would have to be changed or abandoned. No. 10 now seems to be fulfilling its role better as a central coordinator of policy and key communication, so one hopes this spate of u-turns won't have to be repeated.
davepoth said:
Wow. Just wow.
THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT.
We cannot afford to have a big armed forces any more if we want all the other stuff too without paying French levels of tax.
True. But then why commit those same armed forces to a new conflict in Libya when we were already stretched in Afghanistan before SDSR?THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT.
We cannot afford to have a big armed forces any more if we want all the other stuff too without paying French levels of tax.
AJS- said:
I never really had very high expectations for them anyway really.
And I did warn you. It would have been better for Labour to win the last election and really have enough rope to hang themselves, then a much more right wing Tory government come in next time.
Agreed, although seeing Brown or Millipede continuing to blame the problem solely on the banks would have stuck in my craw a wee bit.And I did warn you. It would have been better for Labour to win the last election and really have enough rope to hang themselves, then a much more right wing Tory government come in next time.
Cameron was a good opposition leader, it doesn't always make you a good PM
Bing o said:
Agreed, although seeing Brown or Millipede continuing to blame the problem solely on the banks would have stuck in my craw a wee bit.
Cameron was a good opposition leader, it doesn't always make you a good PM
Indeed. But having Brown touted as an IMF big shot and financial genius, and Millipede as Prime Minister in another 3 or 4 years sticks a lot worse!Cameron was a good opposition leader, it doesn't always make you a good PM
What is sorely needed is a leader. What we currently have is a figurehead.
Those who should be leading, are allowing their politics and policies to be led and influenced by the media. The media is of course not really the voice of the people, nor the last bastion of the country's long term economics, so why these politicians allow themselves to be dictated to by them is beyond me. Conspiracy anyone?
Those who should be leading, are allowing their politics and policies to be led and influenced by the media. The media is of course not really the voice of the people, nor the last bastion of the country's long term economics, so why these politicians allow themselves to be dictated to by them is beyond me. Conspiracy anyone?
Edited by Pints on Friday 24th June 08:44
Gordon Brown should be on trial for criminal incompetence. How we cheered when he went. then we realised we had a clone. We had another PM who wrings his hands and talks about 'protecting the worlds poor', 'educating Africa's children', 'giving the poor a better life'.
THERE'S NO MONEY LEFT!
I don't care what people's opinions regarding aid is. Does it encourage trade? Does it give us influence. As far as I can see, the corrupt Governments that get it are laughing all the way to the bank. Why are we educating Africa's children when our schools are falling to bits and I get begging letters off my kid's school every week. Our whole infrastructure is crumbling. We have 80-90 year olds who are now at the mercy of private companies to take care of them, at vastly increased prices. Our emergency services are being savaged. Our armed Forces are being decimated. He has done nothing to sort out the feral scum who see benefits as an entitlement and way of life.
I've voted in every election since I was 18 years old (and voted Conservative at that, despite being brought up on a northern council estate). I just don't see the point any more. There is absolutely no difference between any of them, NONE.
THERE'S NO MONEY LEFT!
I don't care what people's opinions regarding aid is. Does it encourage trade? Does it give us influence. As far as I can see, the corrupt Governments that get it are laughing all the way to the bank. Why are we educating Africa's children when our schools are falling to bits and I get begging letters off my kid's school every week. Our whole infrastructure is crumbling. We have 80-90 year olds who are now at the mercy of private companies to take care of them, at vastly increased prices. Our emergency services are being savaged. Our armed Forces are being decimated. He has done nothing to sort out the feral scum who see benefits as an entitlement and way of life.
I've voted in every election since I was 18 years old (and voted Conservative at that, despite being brought up on a northern council estate). I just don't see the point any more. There is absolutely no difference between any of them, NONE.
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