Cheap awesome V8s, where to put them?
Discussion
I have a Fisher Fury and a late-model Lexus LS400. The Fury has awesome handling and grip, and is no slouch with a 2.0 Zetec. The LS has a beautiful 4.0 litre, quad-cam, 280bhp VVTi engine which can get a two-ton car moving at an indecent rate of knots. Unfortunately, 10 minutes with a tape measure in the garage was enough to ruin my dream of putting the big lump in the small car. 
Big petrol engined cars are cheap right now, and a couple of different drivetrains spring to mind. Lexus 1UZFE V8 with a Supra W58 five speed box and bellhousing adapter plate would be great for a front engined, RWD scaled up 7 or 3/4 scale Cobra type thing. The Audi 4.2 V8 (I think it's the ABZ?) with a five or six speed Audi transaxle (01X from memory) would make a good package for a mid engined car, like a junior Ultima. Either of these setups would give ~300bhp, loads of torque, and decent reliability. Cost would be fairly low, you can buy a whole LS400 AND a whole Supra non-turbo and have change from a grand!
Unfortunately there seems to be a gap in the kit car market between the smaller chassis which will accept the (old, expensive to tune) Rover V8, and the "big boys" (Cobras, Ultimas etc) which will accept large american V8s. Is there anyone making a light, simple, cheap kit which would accept an Audio or Lexus V8 in either configuration?
I know that a big DOHC V8 won't do much for weight distribution or ultimate circuit performance, but I can't be the only person who would relish the challenge of building/wiring one of these beasts into a car that is far too small for it and enjoying the resulting surplus of power over grip (along with a wicked soundtrack). I'm a good mechanic, but I'm no chassis designer; while I could easily adapt and rewire the engine and it's mounts, I doubt that major chassis mods would be within my grasp, so I'm stuck waiting for a decent kit car designer to do it for me!
Big petrol engined cars are cheap right now, and a couple of different drivetrains spring to mind. Lexus 1UZFE V8 with a Supra W58 five speed box and bellhousing adapter plate would be great for a front engined, RWD scaled up 7 or 3/4 scale Cobra type thing. The Audi 4.2 V8 (I think it's the ABZ?) with a five or six speed Audi transaxle (01X from memory) would make a good package for a mid engined car, like a junior Ultima. Either of these setups would give ~300bhp, loads of torque, and decent reliability. Cost would be fairly low, you can buy a whole LS400 AND a whole Supra non-turbo and have change from a grand!
Unfortunately there seems to be a gap in the kit car market between the smaller chassis which will accept the (old, expensive to tune) Rover V8, and the "big boys" (Cobras, Ultimas etc) which will accept large american V8s. Is there anyone making a light, simple, cheap kit which would accept an Audio or Lexus V8 in either configuration?
I know that a big DOHC V8 won't do much for weight distribution or ultimate circuit performance, but I can't be the only person who would relish the challenge of building/wiring one of these beasts into a car that is far too small for it and enjoying the resulting surplus of power over grip (along with a wicked soundtrack). I'm a good mechanic, but I'm no chassis designer; while I could easily adapt and rewire the engine and it's mounts, I doubt that major chassis mods would be within my grasp, so I'm stuck waiting for a decent kit car designer to do it for me!
Go over to the two brutal and see where they've stuck the Audi V8 in....a Mk1 MR2 and a mk3 roadster. Reason I know, is the mk3 roadster with the 4.2 in it is mine. 
Both Paul and I used the AHC rather than the ABZ which is 340hp as standard rather than the 300 you get with the ABZ. OOh and an 01x and 01e is a six speed box. They're good value but you need to find the right kit to put them into, something like a modern GT40
Both Paul and I used the AHC rather than the ABZ which is 340hp as standard rather than the 300 you get with the ABZ. OOh and an 01x and 01e is a six speed box. They're good value but you need to find the right kit to put them into, something like a modern GT401UZFE into a Cobra?
I've done it.
Twice.
Currently getting 300 bhp and 31mpg. Although a planned hike in rear axle ratio should get us the magic 35 mpg with no loss in acceleration. A couple of ex Scooby turbos should also get us 500 bhp plus. On an unopened engine.
Oh and the spare LS400 engine and box donor cost us £300 three years and 12,000 miles ago but its too good and reliable to break even after spending 18 months immobile as a garage antibreak in door stop. Its now on daily driver and caravan towing duty. We took the Shelby stripes of it however.
If your car has a 700mm cube space in the engine bay you can get a 1UZfe in it. You can even get a supercharged one in an MX5..........
Cheers,
Tony
I've done it.
Twice.
Currently getting 300 bhp and 31mpg. Although a planned hike in rear axle ratio should get us the magic 35 mpg with no loss in acceleration. A couple of ex Scooby turbos should also get us 500 bhp plus. On an unopened engine.
Oh and the spare LS400 engine and box donor cost us £300 three years and 12,000 miles ago but its too good and reliable to break even after spending 18 months immobile as a garage antibreak in door stop. Its now on daily driver and caravan towing duty. We took the Shelby stripes of it however.
If your car has a 700mm cube space in the engine bay you can get a 1UZfe in it. You can even get a supercharged one in an MX5..........
Cheers,
Tony
OP mentions weight- an all Ali v8 is often of similar weight as a iron block straight 4.
For exmple the wet weight of a mazda Mx5 block is something silly like 175kg. An LS1 wet weight is about 205kg. Yes its 30kg heavier, but you can balance the weight gain out by moving the battery to the boot! and to be honest 30kg really isn't going to destroy the handling in any car (unless your car weighs 500kg!).
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
For exmple the wet weight of a mazda Mx5 block is something silly like 175kg. An LS1 wet weight is about 205kg. Yes its 30kg heavier, but you can balance the weight gain out by moving the battery to the boot! and to be honest 30kg really isn't going to destroy the handling in any car (unless your car weighs 500kg!).
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
Racing8 said:
Go over to the two brutal and see where they've stuck the Audi V8 in....a Mk1 MR2 and a mk3 roadster. Reason I know, is the mk3 roadster with the 4.2 in it is mine. Both Paul and I used the AHC rather than the ABZ which is 340hp as standard rather than the 300 you get with the ABZ. OOh and an 01x and 01e is a six speed box. They're good value but you need to find the right kit to put them into, something like a modern GT40
Hopefully there will be one in the back of a GTM Spyder soon. Both Paul and I used the AHC rather than the ABZ which is 340hp as standard rather than the 300 you get with the ABZ. OOh and an 01x and 01e is a six speed box. They're good value but you need to find the right kit to put them into, something like a modern GT40pugwash4x4 said:
OP mentions weight- an all Ali v8 is often of similar weight as a iron block straight 4.
For exmple the wet weight of a mazda Mx5 block is something silly like 175kg. An LS1 wet weight is about 205kg. Yes its 30kg heavier, but you can balance the weight gain out by moving the battery to the boot! and to be honest 30kg really isn't going to destroy the handling in any car (unless your car weighs 500kg!).
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
The battery is already in the boot of an MX5.For exmple the wet weight of a mazda Mx5 block is something silly like 175kg. An LS1 wet weight is about 205kg. Yes its 30kg heavier, but you can balance the weight gain out by moving the battery to the boot! and to be honest 30kg really isn't going to destroy the handling in any car (unless your car weighs 500kg!).
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
Flyin Miata in the USA supplies every part you need to fit an LS engine in an MX5. I seem to remember that the weight distribution is barely changed even using their recommended gearbox and diff etc.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/
bae001 said:
What's the biggest someone has got into a type 7 replica?
Would love to yank the pinto out and put something bigger in
Errrrrr This one?Would love to yank the pinto out and put something bigger in
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid...
I would love to know more about the 1UZ-powered Cobra, what engine management you are using, mods to the engine etc. Unfortunately the Cobra, GT40, Ultima kits are well out of my price range. Big kits designed for big engines at a big price tag. Also, you expect one of those to have a big V8 fitted, I would like the "shock and awe" of a big engine in an inappropriately small car.
I love the Mk1 Mr2s and have followed Pauls V8 build since the beginning when he was going to use a transverse 1UZ. There is a lot of skilled fabrication in that though, and as cool as the project is it will still only be about 300bhp/ton - I get that with my Zetec Fury.
So what I'm after is a super-lightweight small car, around 700kg finished weight, with room for a big cheap engine, so it can be built for a similar cost to a tuned Zetec or R1 package. So far I reckon building a modified Locost from plans would be the best way forwards, I guess the chassis rails under the bonnet could be lengthened and widened to accomodate the 1UZ (as Tony said above, it fits neatly into a 700mm cube) without ruining it. I guess that's now they fitted the Viper engine in the one pictured? I would have to fit some ITBs though, imagine a normal looking 7-type car with eight induction trumpets poking through the bonnet, that sounded like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSmllpDQ8lA&fea...
I love the Mk1 Mr2s and have followed Pauls V8 build since the beginning when he was going to use a transverse 1UZ. There is a lot of skilled fabrication in that though, and as cool as the project is it will still only be about 300bhp/ton - I get that with my Zetec Fury.
So what I'm after is a super-lightweight small car, around 700kg finished weight, with room for a big cheap engine, so it can be built for a similar cost to a tuned Zetec or R1 package. So far I reckon building a modified Locost from plans would be the best way forwards, I guess the chassis rails under the bonnet could be lengthened and widened to accomodate the 1UZ (as Tony said above, it fits neatly into a 700mm cube) without ruining it. I guess that's now they fitted the Viper engine in the one pictured? I would have to fit some ITBs though, imagine a normal looking 7-type car with eight induction trumpets poking through the bonnet, that sounded like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSmllpDQ8lA&fea...
I'm using the standard ECU out of the LS400 donor and the standard auto box. The engine will spark up with three 90 pence relays and as long as you keep the first pair of Lambda sensors in the factory exhaust manifolds ( ditch the second set after the cats, they are not needed) the ECU will be self tuning.
Get the earliest engine you can as they have the strongest rods, for forced induction should you really want mental power,are non interference, and anything pre 1996 will allow you to run without cats.
If the engine is running well simply change the timing belt, water pump and tensioner idler bearings and thats it, stick it in your chassis. Do not be tempted to open up the engine, they are bombproof.
6 bolt mains, 100psi oil presure, revs to 8k with no drama, cheap as chips with an ebayable goldmine around it whats not to like?
Cheers,
Tony
Get the earliest engine you can as they have the strongest rods, for forced induction should you really want mental power,are non interference, and anything pre 1996 will allow you to run without cats.
If the engine is running well simply change the timing belt, water pump and tensioner idler bearings and thats it, stick it in your chassis. Do not be tempted to open up the engine, they are bombproof.
6 bolt mains, 100psi oil presure, revs to 8k with no drama, cheap as chips with an ebayable goldmine around it whats not to like?
Cheers,
Tony
Three options - Full body racere look, Se7en alike, and mid engine racer.
Have a look at the AGM WLR - http://www.agmsportscars.co.uk/
Designed to take the Cossie and the V8's alike IIRC. I also like the Batman/lemans reject styling. I'd love one of these with a TVR Cerbera AJP8 - benefit is that it uses a T5 Cossy gearbox I think so is well set up for that. This engine is probably also small enough to fit in a Fury - now there's a thought !
There is also the Dax Rush - these often have Rover v8s but there is the odd one about with a Chevy Small Block in there so quite a bit of room.
You may be able to squeeze a V8+audi transaxle in the back of a Spire as well.
Have a look at the AGM WLR - http://www.agmsportscars.co.uk/
Designed to take the Cossie and the V8's alike IIRC. I also like the Batman/lemans reject styling. I'd love one of these with a TVR Cerbera AJP8 - benefit is that it uses a T5 Cossy gearbox I think so is well set up for that. This engine is probably also small enough to fit in a Fury - now there's a thought !
There is also the Dax Rush - these often have Rover v8s but there is the odd one about with a Chevy Small Block in there so quite a bit of room.
You may be able to squeeze a V8+audi transaxle in the back of a Spire as well.
James,
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
[/quote]
I'm no Audi expert but I believe the latest 4.2 in one of the models, possibly the S5 churns out a naturally aspirated 425 or 450bhp, or was it 475bhp I read somewhere.
An all alloy LS3 crate engine still tops out at 515bhp though.
OHC or OHV, it's your choice.
Phil
On a different note- does anyone have any good guides to the Audi range of engines- ie what specs they have, if they are all interchangeable, common problems etc etc?
[/quote]
I'm no Audi expert but I believe the latest 4.2 in one of the models, possibly the S5 churns out a naturally aspirated 425 or 450bhp, or was it 475bhp I read somewhere.
An all alloy LS3 crate engine still tops out at 515bhp though.
OHC or OHV, it's your choice.
Phil
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