Lexus / Toyota Soarer V8 - Reliable Alternative To XK8 ?
Discussion
I fancy a bit of a change and thought I might buy a nice wafty V8.
Not really into saloons when I could have a coupe and whilst I like the XK8 a friend repairs them and their reliability and the parts costs seem horrific. He is massively biased in favour of Jags which is why I thought I'd post here.
I like Jap reliability and I like the look of the Soarer and whilst I'll admit the interior isn't as nice, a good soarer with leather isn't a bad place to be.
As good Soarers are about half the price of the cheapest XK8 are they a viable alternative ?
(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
Not really into saloons when I could have a coupe and whilst I like the XK8 a friend repairs them and their reliability and the parts costs seem horrific. He is massively biased in favour of Jags which is why I thought I'd post here.
I like Jap reliability and I like the look of the Soarer and whilst I'll admit the interior isn't as nice, a good soarer with leather isn't a bad place to be.
As good Soarers are about half the price of the cheapest XK8 are they a viable alternative ?
(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
redgriff500 said:
I fancy a bit of a change and thought I might buy a nice wafty V8.
Not really into saloons when I could have a coupe and whilst I like the XK8 a friend repairs them and their reliability and the parts costs seem horrific. He is massively biased in favour of Jags which is why I thought I'd post here.
I like Jap reliability and I like the look of the Soarer and whilst I'll admit the interior isn't as nice, a good soarer with leather isn't a bad place to be.
As good Soarers are about half the price of the cheapest XK8 are they a viable alternative ?
(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
I think something to remember is any REPAIRER of a car make, will through the normal course of business have lots of cars which need fixing..... If they were fine, people wouldn't take them to the repairers. Not really into saloons when I could have a coupe and whilst I like the XK8 a friend repairs them and their reliability and the parts costs seem horrific. He is massively biased in favour of Jags which is why I thought I'd post here.
I like Jap reliability and I like the look of the Soarer and whilst I'll admit the interior isn't as nice, a good soarer with leather isn't a bad place to be.
As good Soarers are about half the price of the cheapest XK8 are they a viable alternative ?
(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
Meaning - how do you know Jags are unreliable? Basing it on seeing a Jag person working on them is a bit like trying to hit water by jumping off a boat. - Predictable result.
As for the Soarer, yes I believe they are very good. Not massivly quick in standard form but tunable. The 2.5TT is the quickest and only one available with a manual (auto only on V8 unless you convert it).
That said, remember they are big car and when new were a premium car. So suspension bits are complex and expensive and the cars are of the right age to need this overhauling (much like the Jags I suspect).
In terms of faults, suspect they are as good as anything else. But unreliability and the need to replace worn items is not really the same thing.
Total bargains though, even £1000 will snatch you a decent'ish one.
If you want something really special keep an eye out for the ultra rare Active Handling/Suspension ones.
Suspect you won't be interested (sigh....) but XK8 money will buy you quite a bit of American metal for a similar class of car. I myself replaced a V12 XJ-S with a 5.7 Camaro, both big 2+2 coupes, front engine rwd.
Jag's have easily the best interiors but the Yanks are visually as good as the Jap offerings and just as solidly built.
redgriff500 said:
But I see the same cars keep coming back !
Water pumps
Knocking engines
Heater control systems
Welding the floor
If it's exactly the same cars, maybe they aren't being fixed correctly Water pumps
Knocking engines
Heater control systems
Welding the floor
I've not owned an XK8 so I can't directly comment, however I can apply a little logic, common sense and some first hand Jag experience. But feel free to make of it what you will.
1. Jaguar have for many many years trounced BMW, Merc and Audi in all customer satisfaction and reliability surveys.
2. Between myself and my Dad we owned 6 or 7 Jags of various models and types. (2.9's to 6.0 litres). In truth none were unreliable or expensive to maintain. The I accept the XK has a different engine though.
3. I've actually looked on some Jag forums in the course of research. And as a general rule my observations lead me to believe most owners have a trouble free ownership experience. I've seen several threads on annual running costs and all are low with comments like costing only a fraction to maintain compared to 'x' persons previous Porsche Boxster.
4. In the course of this research I've also looked up parts costs. Brake discs, alternators non CATS suspension parts are all pretty cheap tbh. Certainly similar costs to buying similar items for something like a Rover 200.
5. There are lots of x308 (V8) Jaguar XJ saloons available for £2-3k. These are largely similar to an XK8, similar floorpan and the same engines, gearbox and largely similar suspension design. Many people happily run these no problems at this price point, so I fail to see how an XK8 can be more unreliable using the same parts?
6. I'm hugely confident that if you spoke to a Nissan specialist, or a BMW specialist all would also always have lots of broken cars of that make in for repair.
I think the Soarer looks really appealing if you are wanting to spend £1-3.5k on purchasing a big coupe.
However I'd have said £5-7k is more realistic if you want a Jag XK.
And I'd expect running costs to be similar for both overall.
unpc said:
Ok I might be a bit biased but I don't see an old Lexus being significantly more reliable than an old XK. If you're seeing the same cars coming back all the time to your mate's garage I'd suggest he's not repairing them very well.
Thats why I put down the failures.If you weld the floor up its hardly your fault when it's back for a water pump.
A while later it was back as it has a complicated heater valve system that had failed.
Then back with the engine knocking.
My uncle also had an early XK8 from new and needed a new engine after 60k - a problem with the early ones - nikasil maybe ?
redgriff500 said:
Thats why I put down the failures.
If you weld the floor up its hardly your fault when it's back for a water pump.
A while later it was back as it has a complicated heater valve system that had failed.
Then back with the engine knocking.
My uncle also had an early XK8 from new and needed a new engine after 60k - a problem with the early ones - nikasil maybe ?
The engines suffer two main issues that I know of.If you weld the floor up its hardly your fault when it's back for a water pump.
A while later it was back as it has a complicated heater valve system that had failed.
Then back with the engine knocking.
My uncle also had an early XK8 from new and needed a new engine after 60k - a problem with the early ones - nikasil maybe ?
1. The Tension system can fail. Fixed on latter cars (4.2's) but fixable on the 4.0's, so something to check.
2. Nikasil, but lets keep this in perspective, this same issue affect BMW, Porsche and several others too and for exactly the same reasons. I think it's fairly fair to say any car running ok today is either fine or has already been replaced with a steel liner variant. It's certainly not something I'd worry about.
Gearboxes can fail, mostly due to the "sealed for life" oil isn't. So an oil and filter change is well worth considering if not done.
The early V8 jags had nikasil linings and they are the ones that are worth avoiding although almost all of them will either have died or been replaced by now.
Aside from that the only real issue is timing chains and tensioners AFAIK which jag went through several iterations of before getting it right and is more likely a real concern.
Heater valve is a common thing on most cars that have dual climate systems as its a complex bit of kit so the question is does the Lexus have dual climate?
My opinion is that the Lexus might be more reliable at the lower price points but that's more down to desirability of the car rather than inherent quality. If I was gonna spend £3K it'd be the Lexus but if I was gonna spend £6K I'd be looking at the XK and not even thinking of the Lexus.
Aside from that the only real issue is timing chains and tensioners AFAIK which jag went through several iterations of before getting it right and is more likely a real concern.
Heater valve is a common thing on most cars that have dual climate systems as its a complex bit of kit so the question is does the Lexus have dual climate?
My opinion is that the Lexus might be more reliable at the lower price points but that's more down to desirability of the car rather than inherent quality. If I was gonna spend £3K it'd be the Lexus but if I was gonna spend £6K I'd be looking at the XK and not even thinking of the Lexus.
Ooh interesting choices
Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
The soarer in my view is simply awesome, better than the jag in my view.
My best mate runs a methanol injected 600hp, 10 second soarer as his daily, luxurious and capable of making you defecate bricks. Stuff has gone wrong with the heating and and Electrics but it's not been that bad, then again it really helps that his dad owns a vw workshop. However the engine is seriously indestructible, 1uz engines are amazing.
Can only tell you that Electrics and ancillaries can be an issues.
Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
The soarer in my view is simply awesome, better than the jag in my view.
My best mate runs a methanol injected 600hp, 10 second soarer as his daily, luxurious and capable of making you defecate bricks. Stuff has gone wrong with the heating and and Electrics but it's not been that bad, then again it really helps that his dad owns a vw workshop. However the engine is seriously indestructible, 1uz engines are amazing.
Can only tell you that Electrics and ancillaries can be an issues.
MrQuick said:
Ooh interesting choices
Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
But that's just daft.Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
Easy thing to do is get one from a breakers (scrap yard) or from a Jag specialist and either fit yourself or pay a local mechanic £50 to do.
Motor on its own £45: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-LEFT-WINDOW-WINDING-...
Motor and regulator £100: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JAGUAR-XK8-R-WINDOW-MOTOR-RE...
Worst case is total fix for £150-175, but maybe as cheap as £40-50 if you do it yourself.
300bhp/ton said:
MrQuick said:
Ooh interesting choices
Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
But that's just daft.Personally I methinks you're a brave idiot getting the jag, ill respect you because you're brave. A friend got a cheapish convertible a while back and the electric motor for the passengers window decided to pack up, quote is $1500 to fix here in aus, translates to about 1k over there.
Easy thing to do is get one from a breakers (scrap yard) or from a Jag specialist and either fit yourself or pay a local mechanic £50 to do.
Motor on its own £45: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-LEFT-WINDOW-WINDING-...
Motor and regulator £100: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JAGUAR-XK8-R-WINDOW-MOTOR-RE...
Worst case is total fix for £150-175, but maybe as cheap as £40-50 if you do it yourself.
And how much do you think a Lexus dealer would charge for a broken window motor/regulator in a Soarer?
I think £6k is the entry level for an XK8 and you really want to spend £9 - £10k to get one that's not been neglected and doesn't have intergalactic mileage. Lots of scruffy ones out there on tired suspension and with gearboxes towards the end of their lives. That said every Soarer I've ever seen looks like a neglected shed.
Dave
I think £6k is the entry level for an XK8 and you really want to spend £9 - £10k to get one that's not been neglected and doesn't have intergalactic mileage. Lots of scruffy ones out there on tired suspension and with gearboxes towards the end of their lives. That said every Soarer I've ever seen looks like a neglected shed.
Dave
redgriff500 said:
I like Jap reliability and I like the look of the Soarer and whilst I'll admit the interior isn't as nice, a good soarer with leather isn't a bad place to be.
(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
I think the Soarer looks cool as well. Hard to find a decent unmolested one these days.(no I wouldn't consider a BMW 8 series)
Out of interest, why wouldn't you consider an 8 series?
How about a Merc CL? This was probably the car that Lexus benchmarked the Soarer against.
Edited by excel monkey on Friday 1st July 10:53
excel monkey said:
I think the Soarer looks cool as well. Hard to find a decent unmolested one these days.
Out of interest, why wouldn't you consider an 8 series?
How about a Merc CL? This was probably the car that Lexus benchmarked the Soarer against.
8 series is massively complicated - Dad's had a couple in stock before, park them up for a few weeks and you can get electrical issues costing hundreds to sort out - been there done that.Out of interest, why wouldn't you consider an 8 series?
How about a Merc CL? This was probably the car that Lexus benchmarked the Soarer against.
Mercs are old man's cars IME - driven loads inc Cosworths - all awful - no fun at all.
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