390 Engine woes
Discussion
I'm having a nightmare with the 390 at the moment, I wonder what I may have done wrong.
It began last week when I started up to move the car out of the garage for the first time since winter. I heard a bit of clatter from the valve hydraulics and I noticed that there was no oil pressure so I stopped the engine straight away.
Turning the engine over for a bit I could see no pressure at all and I thought the problem could be the pump sucking air or the pressure relief thingy. I took the dissy off and turned the pump round on a drill but I still didn't get any pressure. I looked it up in the bible and saw there was another easier solution so I took the inlet pipe off the remote filter assembly and poured oil down the pipe. This worked and is a much simpler method - and I really wish that I'd done this first.
Putting the dissy back involves sorting out the timing and things, I haven't had the car running properly since.
I set the engine at around 6 degrees BTDC on the pulley and put the dissy back so the rotor arm points just after the wire inlet (this is what the Rover manual says), this should be number 1 cylinder. I then reconnect the plug leads in the firing order round the engine 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 clockwise around the cap.
Sanity check ? Cylinder no 1 is the front cylinder on the driver's side (RHD) isn't it?
But it is difficult to start and runs like a box of spanners on a dumper truck with square wheels. I can turn the dissy round quite a few degrees without it getting sweeter or worse. Idle is very slow and stuttering.
At some time during this process the oil pressure light has gone - but the gauge still works and I have pressure.
There is a knocking from around nos 3 and 5 cylinders which feels like a loose piston! But it doesn't get any worse at higher revs which I would expect if it were. The next diagnosis test may be a compression test.
The immobiliser has started giving problems with the engine refusing to budge at times.
If I don't get this going properly I will end up having to drive the van to BBWF which I certainly will not be happy with.
Oh woe is me.
Russ
It began last week when I started up to move the car out of the garage for the first time since winter. I heard a bit of clatter from the valve hydraulics and I noticed that there was no oil pressure so I stopped the engine straight away.
Turning the engine over for a bit I could see no pressure at all and I thought the problem could be the pump sucking air or the pressure relief thingy. I took the dissy off and turned the pump round on a drill but I still didn't get any pressure. I looked it up in the bible and saw there was another easier solution so I took the inlet pipe off the remote filter assembly and poured oil down the pipe. This worked and is a much simpler method - and I really wish that I'd done this first.
Putting the dissy back involves sorting out the timing and things, I haven't had the car running properly since.
I set the engine at around 6 degrees BTDC on the pulley and put the dissy back so the rotor arm points just after the wire inlet (this is what the Rover manual says), this should be number 1 cylinder. I then reconnect the plug leads in the firing order round the engine 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 clockwise around the cap.
Sanity check ? Cylinder no 1 is the front cylinder on the driver's side (RHD) isn't it?
But it is difficult to start and runs like a box of spanners on a dumper truck with square wheels. I can turn the dissy round quite a few degrees without it getting sweeter or worse. Idle is very slow and stuttering.
At some time during this process the oil pressure light has gone - but the gauge still works and I have pressure.
There is a knocking from around nos 3 and 5 cylinders which feels like a loose piston! But it doesn't get any worse at higher revs which I would expect if it were. The next diagnosis test may be a compression test.
The immobiliser has started giving problems with the engine refusing to budge at times.
If I don't get this going properly I will end up having to drive the van to BBWF which I certainly will not be happy with.
Oh woe is me.
Russ
Sorry to hear this Russ.
On your cylinder number 1 question: it is the one on the front of the left hand bank, RHD the passenger side. My way to remember this is that nr1 is closest to the distributor.
Think that your ignition setup is out of range. Have a different method then you used, when taking the distributor out and never had any issues perhaps based on that I leave the crankshaft as is and put distributor back to the position as when taken out...
But before sorting that I would investigate the engine first, as it could perhaps have a small damage to bearings etc. and if continuing you could make matters worse.
Hope it is just the ignition and nothing serious.
Rob
On your cylinder number 1 question: it is the one on the front of the left hand bank, RHD the passenger side. My way to remember this is that nr1 is closest to the distributor.
Think that your ignition setup is out of range. Have a different method then you used, when taking the distributor out and never had any issues perhaps based on that I leave the crankshaft as is and put distributor back to the position as when taken out...
But before sorting that I would investigate the engine first, as it could perhaps have a small damage to bearings etc. and if continuing you could make matters worse.
Hope it is just the ignition and nothing serious.
Rob
No definately the V8 on page 13, the V6 is on page 10.
The BL/Rover manual (I can't find the Haynes book of lies and half-truths at the moment) says that the engine no is on the left - the RHD passenger side. And it says the left hand bank is 1,3,5,7 - the right hand bank is 2,4,6,8.
That makes the bible suspect.
I have moved everything round and now the starter motor isn't working - may need a bit of a hammer - but where?
Russ
The BL/Rover manual (I can't find the Haynes book of lies and half-truths at the moment) says that the engine no is on the left - the RHD passenger side. And it says the left hand bank is 1,3,5,7 - the right hand bank is 2,4,6,8.
That makes the bible suspect.
I have moved everything round and now the starter motor isn't working - may need a bit of a hammer - but where?
Russ
IME the usual way to do it is to set the crank at TDC on No. 1 compression, install the distributor (with the rotor arm in more-or-less the right direction) and rotate its body to set the BTDC adjustment once the engine starts.
One cockup that can occur is that you set the crank at TDC but it's actually 180 degrees out (so firing on No. 6 IIRC) - that way even if you have the HT leads in the right order it'll never run properly.
One cockup that can occur is that you set the crank at TDC but it's actually 180 degrees out (so firing on No. 6 IIRC) - that way even if you have the HT leads in the right order it'll never run properly.
E Ponym said:
The "refusing to budge problem" is the starter motor, completely open circuit.
Can anybody recommend a supplier for starter motors, are these Hi-Torque units any good?
Russ
Open-circuit how? Where are you measuring from? If it's O/C regardless of where you position the rotor it could be the brushes are shot or the commutator needs a bloody good clean (ironically, too much carbon on the segments prevents them from conducting Can anybody recommend a supplier for starter motors, are these Hi-Torque units any good?
Russ
).Hi Adam, I did get a Land Rover motor off e-Bay but I must have got the wrong type because it doesn't fit (£87 down the drain), can you give me details of your supplier and his part number if it is available, I can never see enough detail of the nose arrangement on the web adverts.
I think that there are at least 3 different arrangement of the nose of the similar starters, where the cut-out is, where the bolt holes are and where the solenoid sits. If like me you get the wrong type the solenoid will foul the exhaust more than a little bit of "Birmingham Easing" will manage.
Russ
I think that there are at least 3 different arrangement of the nose of the similar starters, where the cut-out is, where the bolt holes are and where the solenoid sits. If like me you get the wrong type the solenoid will foul the exhaust more than a little bit of "Birmingham Easing" will manage.
Russ
E Ponym said:
Hi Adam, I did get a Land Rover motor off e-Bay but I must have got the wrong type because it doesn't fit (£87 down the drain), can you give me details of your supplier and his part number if it is available, I can never see enough detail of the nose arrangement on the web adverts.
I think that there are at least 3 different arrangement of the nose of the similar starters, where the cut-out is, where the bolt holes are and where the solenoid sits. If like me you get the wrong type the solenoid will foul the exhaust more than a little bit of "Birmingham Easing" will manage.
Russ
Bring it to Wedgefest, as I may buy it off as a you as a spare as on the racer it has Griff headers so should fit.I think that there are at least 3 different arrangement of the nose of the similar starters, where the cut-out is, where the bolt holes are and where the solenoid sits. If like me you get the wrong type the solenoid will foul the exhaust more than a little bit of "Birmingham Easing" will manage.
Russ
Using the method you did..or setting the car at TDC by the wheel will give you one of two results;
1. you are approximately where you want to be
2. you are 180 degrees from where you want to be
To check, careful remove the distributor and then turn the rotor 180 degrees and reinstall. Verify the wires position. .
All that being said, the most infamous weak point on ALL pre-GEMS Rover/LR v8s is the ignition system. The distributors, amplifiers and ignition wires are substandard and have the habit of aging VERY badly, inevitably beaching the owner. http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/MalloryUnilite.html
Holy thread resurrection Batman!
It has taken me this long to get around to replacing the starter but I got a used one off EBay and although it is longer and wider than the original it does fit and it works. There wasn't room for a heat-shield between the exhaust and the starter so I hope it doesn't cook.
After fitting the starter it didn't take long to get the timing approximately right and started the the engine and got the timing more nearly correct.
I'll be getting the old starter refurbished so I have a spare and I will be trying to find a way to refit the heat-shield.
What a relief!
It has taken me this long to get around to replacing the starter but I got a used one off EBay and although it is longer and wider than the original it does fit and it works. There wasn't room for a heat-shield between the exhaust and the starter so I hope it doesn't cook.
After fitting the starter it didn't take long to get the timing approximately right and started the the engine and got the timing more nearly correct.
I'll be getting the old starter refurbished so I have a spare and I will be trying to find a way to refit the heat-shield.
What a relief!
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