Vintage aeroplane crash

[DieselGriff]

Seems there's been a crash at an air display BBC Looks like no major injuries thank goodness.

[aeropilot]

Bucker Jungmann at Old Warden, pilot is OK.

Not a good weekend for vintage aviation, as Anna Walker was forced to make a wheels up landing in France in Kennet Aviations lovely Seafire yesterday..... ..... but what a magnificent text book job she made of it as well

[Waynester]

Just heard this on the radio, relief pilot is ok!

Let's hope this doesn't 'fuel the fire' for the Health & safety Brigade who think old planes should not be flown!

Edited by Waynester on Sunday 3rd July 17:20

[mrloudly]

Sound to me like a bit of over eager reporting, as usual... My bet is engine problems and he/she put it down in a field. That's not a "Crash" in my book...

[DamienB]

Well to be fair it did end up upside-down...

[Aizle]

DamienB said:

Well to be fair it did end up upside-down...

How do you know that?

[aeropilot]

Aizle said:

DamienB said:

Well to be fair it did end up upside-down...

How do you know that?

Eyewitness accounts, and from the pilot

[Aizle]

aeropilot said:

Eyewitness accounts, and from the pilot

That'd do it.

I'll have to find out which field turns aircraft over so I'll miss it if I ever get an EFATO.

[Tootles the Taxi]

At least three fire appliances, an ambulance, a water tender and the local police van shot past us this morning about 10:20 as we were just entering the village of Old Warden on the way to Shuttleworth for today's flying. Mrs Tootles said "I hope its not a crash at the airfield" a suggestion I poo-pooed and mused that some nutter must have stacked it on the A1 at Biggleswade. The display at Shuttleworth was fab (as usual) and we returned home tonight to see the local BBC running pictures of the Jungmann ground-looped in a field near Old Warden. Mrs Tootles isn't often correct, but respect is due to her spider senses this morning.

[Fat Albert]

Fortunately Anna escaped with only a Black eye after a text-book wheels-up landing in the seafire, pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaantoine/sets/721576...

It should be back in the air again within a few months

[Simpo Two]

Tootles the Taxi said:

pictures of the Jungmann ground-looped in a field near Old Warden

Ground loop AND upside-down?

Pix of Seafire forced landing at http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaantoine/sets/721576...

NB: The way the propeller blades all snapped off - they can't be wood - must be a different metal alloy from WW2 ones which always seemed to bend back on impact.

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 4th July 10:03

[DamienB]

Aizle said:

I'll have to find out which field turns aircraft over so I'll miss it if I ever get an EFATO.

I should think just about any farmer's field has the capacity turn you over in a light taildragger - particularly a field full of rape.

Simpo Two said:

NB: The way the propeller blades all snapped off - they can't be wood - must be a different metal alloy from WW2 ones which always seemed to bend back on impact.

They're wooden.

[eharding]

DamienB said:

Aizle said:

I'll have to find out which field turns aircraft over so I'll miss it if I ever get an EFATO.

I should think just about any farmer's field has the capacity turn you over in a light taildragger - particularly a field full of rape.

An EFATO event isn't going to give you a lot of choice - and trying to stretch the glide or even worse turn back is invariably what will kill you. Also, arbitrary fields can change surface character in a matter of hours - I know a chap who was unlucky enough to write-off his Cap 232 in a field that the farmer was still ploughing - an hour or so earlier it would have been fine.

DamienB said:

Simpo Two said:

NB: The way the propeller blades all snapped off - they can't be wood - must be a different metal alloy from WW2 ones which always seemed to bend back on impact.

They're wooden.

From personal experience, even at idle power modern wooden-composite prop blades will just evaporate on contact with the ground, with no apparent impact shock. The engine will still need a shock-load inspection, but chances are any damage would be minimal compared to a metal prop strike.

Edited by eharding on Monday 4th July 11:55

[Simpo Two]

DamienB said:

They're wooden.

Blimey, that seems a bit regressive. I'm surprised, especially with the power of a Griffon.

[eharding]

Simpo Two said:

DamienB said:

They're wooden.

Blimey, that seems a bit regressive. I'm surprised, especially with the power of a Griffon.

Back in the day, metal props would have provided better performance than the contemporary wooden blades, and better battle-damage resilience.

Modern wooden-composite props are a step removed from those available in the 1940s, absolute high-end performance is no longer a factor, and the added benefit of saving the engine from damage in cases like this.

[mybrainhurts]

Aizle said:

if I ever get an EFATO.

You can get a cream for that...

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Having said that, the later wartime 4 blade props fitted to the MkIX and MkXVI et al were composites. I remember my Father telling me that they were made of something like compressed cardboard!

The Seafire MkXVII was really merely a 'cleaned up' variant of the MkXV with things like longer oleos with a different bump/rebound rate in order to give it better deck handling characteristics. As such it had the single stage supercharged Griffon (hence the 4 blade prop and the increased chord rudder of the late Mk IXs and XVIs). Thus it didn't have the grunt of the Mk XIVs, XVIIIs or XIXs (which had a 5 blade prop, an even bigger increased chord rudder, and a two stage supercharger).

[Tootles the Taxi]

The Jungmann from Old Warden was upside down. My misunderstanding of the term "Ground-loop" may have caused confusion. Apologies.

[mrloudly]

It's common for taildraggers to flip on forced landings into fields. Ruts, standing crops or soft ground they'll all have 'em over. Paul Morgan sadly
tipped the Sea Fury and that was landing on a soft grass licensed runway...(doesn't seem possible that was ten years ago!)

Still not a "Crash" IMHO more a "Landing incident"

[Aizle]

mybrainhurts said:

You can get a cream for that...

I'll have to borrow some of you 'aemorr'oid cream