Do we need a ps4, 720, etc?
Discussion
Been doing some reading recently, and came across a number of "The PS3 will have a ten year shelf life" type statements from Sony, affirming their commitment to the platform whilst also mentioning that globally, the ps2 still sells a few million units globally each year.
I do understand R&D plus manufacturer cost implications, as well as the need to build a userbase, but in my view, 10 years is five years too many. I don't want to be playing a ten year old games machine, when I'd be happy to give Sony whatever they wanted to charge for a new model, if I could have one tomorrow.
Sony seem committed to getting 10 years out of the ps3. Presumably they think their fans want this. Is this what you want?
I do understand R&D plus manufacturer cost implications, as well as the need to build a userbase, but in my view, 10 years is five years too many. I don't want to be playing a ten year old games machine, when I'd be happy to give Sony whatever they wanted to charge for a new model, if I could have one tomorrow.
Sony seem committed to getting 10 years out of the ps3. Presumably they think their fans want this. Is this what you want?
Return on investment is the reason. They spent a huge amount of money (it was in the billions IIRC) developing the hardware and they will need to keep it on the shelves as long as possible in order to recoup that. It has nothing to do with the fans (since when has Sony cared about them!). However, saying that they want 10 years out of it doesn’t mean they won’t bring out a successor before then, just like they did with the PS2 (which they only recently stopped making). I think that was released in 1999/ 2000?, so they had over 10 years out of it (and they're still selling games for it AFAIK)
If MS bring out a successor to the 360 they’ll have no choice, there’s no way they could keep market share with a console that’s a generation behind (and there would be a pretty big gap between them in terms of hardware).
To answer the question of whether we need one, probably not, but as PC hardware has been moving on year-on-year (it’s about a generation ahead now) it’s a natural evolution.
If MS bring out a successor to the 360 they’ll have no choice, there’s no way they could keep market share with a console that’s a generation behind (and there would be a pretty big gap between them in terms of hardware).
To answer the question of whether we need one, probably not, but as PC hardware has been moving on year-on-year (it’s about a generation ahead now) it’s a natural evolution.
Well, I don't want to be paying out another large sum for a new console when the graphics etc on the current lot are good enough already. Upgrade them when the games actually look dated compared to PC games. Still on my launch PS3, and I don't feel like it's anywhere near the end of its useful life - there aren't many obvious upgrades to make.
The 360's lack of Blu-ray is probably a bit behind the curve now though - with games coming on more than one DVD I think it's really time to upgrade.
The Wii upgrade makes sense, but only because they've stopped focusing on the motion controls, so they don't really have that USP any more.
The 360's lack of Blu-ray is probably a bit behind the curve now though - with games coming on more than one DVD I think it's really time to upgrade.
The Wii upgrade makes sense, but only because they've stopped focusing on the motion controls, so they don't really have that USP any more.
Mazdarese said:
Why? What particular functions do you need that the PS3 doesn't currently support?
Only the important ones 
The ability to store more data (ps3 games are often built with 360 DVD storage limitations in mind as regards file size) and to render and display high res textures in 1080p, so I can enjoy games on the 50 inch plasma to the same standard as Blu-ray discs... HD has been available for a bloody long time, yet there are still no true HD consoles on the Market.
720p isn't too far away from super VHS, which was 600-and-something, and that technology was developed around the same time wealthy businessmen rode to work on a brachiosaurus or triceratops.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course.
I'm ready for a new console, and I want one now!!
Meoricin said:
Well, I don't want to be paying out another large sum for a new console when the graphics etc on the current lot are good enough already. Upgrade them when the games actually look dated compared to PC games. Still on my launch PS3, and I don't feel like it's anywhere near the end of its useful life - there aren't many obvious upgrades to make.
The problem is, in terms of hardware, everything is advancing quicker than many people probably anticipate. Apple don't seem to see anything wrong with releasing a slightly better version of the iPod/iPhone every year or so, and yet thousands of people out there are willing to fork out £500 upwards every 6-12 months as the brand 'fashion' continues.I'm actually surprised that neither Microsoft or Sony have done anything brand new for this length of time, considering the possible scope to do so. Then again, I agree with Neil's points and perhaps they have realised that for many, they already spend enough on current gaming. Surely everyone must remember just how expensive the 360 and PS3 were upon release. No one anticipated them selling, and yet given 6 months, nearly everyone had one. Releasing a much more powerful console now would come at an even larger price. One which many people in this current financial climate probably wouldn't be prepared or in the position to pay.
Console development means that release of consoles will be further and further apart unless someone brings something radically new to the Market which forces the others to try to up their game or loose Market share, ie Sony and Microsoft taking over from sega and nintendo. When the 360 and ps3 were released I'm pretty sure that work on the next generation had already begun, but they are not sand bagging the products like apple do so that slightly improved models can be released year after year.
Although they do refresh the line up with slimline versions and different colours etc.
It's been far easier to go from lines and dots moving on a screen-space invaders etc, to master system- 8 bit
Doubling the bit to 16 for the mega drive
I can still remember as a kid that my older brother wanted a mega drive, it makes me laugh now at the thought of him going to my mum "the graphics the graphics" as he desperately tried to justify them buying one.
Of course consoles have had their own beta max.....
How long did the snes last-
3 years, wasn't great for the people that bought it,
Xbox not much better at 4 years
(the following dates are taken from wiki)
Master system lasted About 9 years in europe
Mega drive lasted about 7 years
Playstation lasted about 6 years as did the playstation 2
The xbox 360 is currently about 6 years old,(replacement rumoured anywhere between 2011-2013 according to Internet sites) but who knows.
Playstation 3 about 4 years old (but had a delayed release if I remember correctly) so there's still a few years left in it unless Microsoft release the 720 anytime soon.
Personally I think Sony will be keeping their heads down for a bit after the whole hackers saga.
Games on the ps3 all seem very short, completable in very little time, I don't know if this is down to the limitations of the system or disks, development on online play being more of a feature of the games and a major part of the game cost taken up.
Eta actual life span of consoles Has been getting shorter, personally I think that's due to the pace of development that has occurred, similar to tvs and as we progress gains will get smaller and take longer to achieve.
Although they do refresh the line up with slimline versions and different colours etc.
It's been far easier to go from lines and dots moving on a screen-space invaders etc, to master system- 8 bit
Doubling the bit to 16 for the mega drive
I can still remember as a kid that my older brother wanted a mega drive, it makes me laugh now at the thought of him going to my mum "the graphics the graphics" as he desperately tried to justify them buying one.
Of course consoles have had their own beta max.....
How long did the snes last-
3 years, wasn't great for the people that bought it,
Xbox not much better at 4 years
(the following dates are taken from wiki)
Master system lasted About 9 years in europe
Mega drive lasted about 7 years
Playstation lasted about 6 years as did the playstation 2
The xbox 360 is currently about 6 years old,(replacement rumoured anywhere between 2011-2013 according to Internet sites) but who knows.
Playstation 3 about 4 years old (but had a delayed release if I remember correctly) so there's still a few years left in it unless Microsoft release the 720 anytime soon.
Personally I think Sony will be keeping their heads down for a bit after the whole hackers saga.
Games on the ps3 all seem very short, completable in very little time, I don't know if this is down to the limitations of the system or disks, development on online play being more of a feature of the games and a major part of the game cost taken up.
Eta actual life span of consoles Has been getting shorter, personally I think that's due to the pace of development that has occurred, similar to tvs and as we progress gains will get smaller and take longer to achieve.
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 4th July 15:33
CypherP said:
The problem is, in terms of hardware, everything is advancing quicker than many people probably anticipate. Apple don't seem to see anything wrong with releasing a slightly better version of the iPod/iPhone every year or so, and yet thousands of people out there are willing to fork out £500 upwards every 6-12 months as the brand 'fashion' continues.
I'm actually surprised that neither Microsoft or Sony have done anything brand new for this length of time, considering the possible scope to do so. Then again, I agree with Neil's points and perhaps they have realised that for many, they already spend enough on current gaming. Surely everyone must remember just how expensive the 360 and PS3 were upon release. No one anticipated them selling, and yet given 6 months, nearly everyone had one. Releasing a much more powerful console now would come at an even larger price. One which many people in this current financial climate probably wouldn't be prepared or in the position to pay.
Hardware has been advancing constantly for many years, buy a top spec computer, get it home, set it up, connect to Internet and see that it is already outdated by a new model.I'm actually surprised that neither Microsoft or Sony have done anything brand new for this length of time, considering the possible scope to do so. Then again, I agree with Neil's points and perhaps they have realised that for many, they already spend enough on current gaming. Surely everyone must remember just how expensive the 360 and PS3 were upon release. No one anticipated them selling, and yet given 6 months, nearly everyone had one. Releasing a much more powerful console now would come at an even larger price. One which many people in this current financial climate probably wouldn't be prepared or in the position to pay.
For pc users it's easy to upgrade with new parts as long as they are all still compatible with each other, this is not a route easily achieved with consoles en masse although it would not be impossible to do.
Slimline and colour revisions have allowed for release dates of new consoles, without much being changed
Apple release stuff every year, but it's sometimes that the previous generation was left with flaws, perhaps intentionally, i phone comes out without ability to send text messages, rubbish camera etc so that the next generation can be improved both with the hardware and the abilities of the device, far easier to Market visual changes or additions than a slightly more powerful unit to the people that want a fashion accessory rather than a piece of tech.
Recession or no recession when the xbox 720 or ps4 are released they will sell as will i pads and I phones,etc,etc
Mobsta said:
Mazdarese said:
Why? What particular functions do you need that the PS3 doesn't currently support?
Only the important ones The ability to store more data (ps3 games are often built with 360 DVD storage limitations in mind as regards file size) and to render and display high res textures in 1080p, so I can enjoy games on the 50 inch plasma to the same standard as Blu-ray discs... HD has been available for a bloody long time, yet there are still no true HD consoles on the Market.
720p isn't too far away from super VHS, which was 600-and-something, and that technology was developed around the same time wealthy businessmen rode to work on a brachiosaurus or triceratops.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course.
I'm ready for a new console, and I want one now!!
It would be interesting to look at a recent PS3 BD and see what is actually taking up what space.
Personally, I'd rather game developers concentrated on making games that are revolutionary in terms of gameplay rather than graphics. Portal 2 for example was a fantastic game, looks fine on a 50" plasma, and I'm sure doesn't take up more than 10gb on a BD?
Britespark has a point. What I will also add is there is always the "Better one" of the group. This one usually lasts longer than the competition and almost forces them to make a new console. Also alot of the time the most powerful console loses out.
Master System,9 yrs, more powerful...lost to the NES
Mega Drive - 9 yrs, more powerful...lost to SNES
N64 - 6 yrs, most powerful of 5 consoles)...lost to PSX
XBOX - 4 Yrs, most powerful...lost to PS2
PS3....losing to XBOX 360??
Look back at the other consoles that should of been better, Saturn, Dreamcast, Jaguar etc and shows power is not the be all and end all. So makes me wonder what will be around the corner.
Master System,9 yrs, more powerful...lost to the NES
Mega Drive - 9 yrs, more powerful...lost to SNES
N64 - 6 yrs, most powerful of 5 consoles)...lost to PSX
XBOX - 4 Yrs, most powerful...lost to PS2
PS3....losing to XBOX 360??
Look back at the other consoles that should of been better, Saturn, Dreamcast, Jaguar etc and shows power is not the be all and end all. So makes me wonder what will be around the corner.
Can developers keep up with the latest hardware & make FULL use of the hardware's capabilities if Sony/MS decide to upgrade every 2-4 years?
Personally, the graphics still seem pretty decent to me & can't see it improving much if they brought a new console out tomorrow so I'm happy to wait another few years. I just want them to make consoles that physically last more a year or 2.
Personally, the graphics still seem pretty decent to me & can't see it improving much if they brought a new console out tomorrow so I'm happy to wait another few years. I just want them to make consoles that physically last more a year or 2.
FellowPazzini said:
Can developers keep up with the latest hardware & make FULL use of the hardware's capabilities if Sony/MS decide to upgrade every 2-4 years?
Personally, the graphics still seem pretty decent to me & can't see it improving much if they brought a new console out tomorrow so I'm happy to wait another few years. I just want them to make consoles that physically last more a year or 2.
Before PC's were always alot more powerful than consoles. Nower days consoles on launch are about as powerful as high end gaming PC's. Also with game development mainly being on PC's it means multi platforms can be worked on and ported around. So not that problematic anymore.Personally, the graphics still seem pretty decent to me & can't see it improving much if they brought a new console out tomorrow so I'm happy to wait another few years. I just want them to make consoles that physically last more a year or 2.
russ_a said:
720 is release date is 2012. So i have heard 
360's have just dropped in price because of this
I read last month, some comment about Microsoft refusing to confirm or deny that recent ads for development related employees relayed to the "720" - and today I followed a link on PH which speculatively confirmed this. Either way, how can we be expecting a 2012 release if they are only just getting started.360's have just dropped in price because of this
I'm also wondering whether shareholders are being catered for, with (say) sony fibbing to us. Whoever releases their system first will have a huge advantage over the other. (I don't even consider Nintendo an option anymore. I enjoyed several drunken hours standing on several mates puddles of Nintendo weeee's rocking back and forth to make them work, and no longer consider Nintendo a purchasing option.
What do sony/ms make monetarily from sales of software development kits? Must licesnses be bought per game developed? Are any royalties accrued, in the same way apple gets 30% of anything sold on the app store?
I'd steamroller my own penis into a pancake disc, and insert it into my ps3 if I knew it would provide a 'twice as good' gaming experience. 10 years is too long to wait. The fact that I feel I'm waiting clearly means I want more.
Mobsta said:
720p isn't too far away from super VHS, which was 600-and-something, and that technology was developed around the same time wealthy businessmen rode to work on a brachiosaurus or triceratops.
SVHS is 560x480.Basically, you have 2 manufacturers staring at each other in a Mexican standoff, trying to see who flinches first. Sony paid WAY too much in development costs for the processor and is still trying to claw back the costs. Microsoft can see that Sony aren't moving and so has no reason to move its own product forward.
Additionally, software houses can see that higher resolutions and abilities lead directly to higher production costs. Software is already pushing what most people can afford, not helped by many titles being mediocre, but still with high dev costs.
As stated above somewhere, the development has switched to software in recent years.
Look at all the "new" things we have on the consoles, iPlayer, Sky, films, facebook, LastFM, Twitter etc. Plus Kinnect and the PS3 equivalent.
I would argue this has added maybe 2 years to the life of the consoles in this generation.
Sales are still high, people have been buying the "new" (i.e. updated) consoles in their droves so why would the manufacturers put a stop to it?
We also still appear to be pushing the hardware, like we saw with the PS2, more and more. Battlefield 3 in particular stands out for me.
I wonder if the new "mega" games like COD, which now compete with big release films in terms of the revenue they drive from sales has also had an impact on console development i.e. work more with what you have.
Anyway, my bet is on a new xbox announced next year for release in 2013, Sony to follow up in 2014.
Look at all the "new" things we have on the consoles, iPlayer, Sky, films, facebook, LastFM, Twitter etc. Plus Kinnect and the PS3 equivalent.
I would argue this has added maybe 2 years to the life of the consoles in this generation.
Sales are still high, people have been buying the "new" (i.e. updated) consoles in their droves so why would the manufacturers put a stop to it?
We also still appear to be pushing the hardware, like we saw with the PS2, more and more. Battlefield 3 in particular stands out for me.
I wonder if the new "mega" games like COD, which now compete with big release films in terms of the revenue they drive from sales has also had an impact on console development i.e. work more with what you have.
Anyway, my bet is on a new xbox announced next year for release in 2013, Sony to follow up in 2014.
Mobsta said:
Forgot to say... Heard from what credible source?
Sorry no, just read it on a well known website. MS are trying to off load stock of 360's for a 2012 release of the 720.To be honest they dont need that much design time as the xbox is just a cheap pc in a box.
Again it could all be a load of crap!
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