What to do?........ If anything!
Discussion
So, I've had my E61 M5 for 9 months now and for some reason I've got a premature desire for change. I normally keep my cars for around 2 years and move up the power / spec ladder but at 9 months in I'm worried I'm being stupid. Asuming I'm not being stupid I've come to a bit of a dilema; what to get next! Can anything be found to replace it?
Having come up through the ranks via a Metro, 205 GTi and GTi-6 Rally cars, Mundano, L200's and Shogun Sports, Escort Cossie and previously a C5 RS6 I'm at the point where I don't want to go down the 'grunt' ladder with a lower output engine. Call it what you will but I feel I've grown out of the 4-cylinder whippet phase and am comfortable with the effortless shift of the high capacity block. On top of the issue of finding another car with equal or increased power I'm also struggling to see any 500bhp+ cars with reliability levels anywhere near the M5.
Sure I've had the normal M5 Tourer issues, such as the infamous E61 tailgate wiring issue and the whole M5 clutch release bearing saga but all in I've found the M5 to be incredibly reliable for such a potent machine. My research into this car doesnt really bring up any bad points with regard to the cars build quality. The fantastic BMW Warranty takes care of that anyway. With the RS6 I constantly worried about the gearbox, the suspension, the alloys, the mafs, the intercooler etc. With the M5 I only worry about...... well, nothing. Fuel seems to be the M5 owners only concern. Is it a boring car for this reason?
And then there's the handling. Find me a car that will handle its 2 tonne belly so well and i'll look at it with great interest. The Audis just dont cut it and again there is the issue of DRC, even on the new C6's. Mercedes AMG's are ok but are not anywhere near the handling bar BMW has set. So, what does that leave?
So why do I feel the need to change? To be honest, I don't know. The car is stupidly quick and chuckable for a 2 tonne bus, its very practical as an estate (except fuel consumption) and its very reliable (touches wood). Nothing else ticks the same boxes. Could it be that the M5 is too good or too clinical? Does it lack heart? Have i hit the wall or peaked too soon?
Anyone else suffered the same stress? If anyone has an alternative car idea (up to £30k) then please add below also.
Eddie
Having come up through the ranks via a Metro, 205 GTi and GTi-6 Rally cars, Mundano, L200's and Shogun Sports, Escort Cossie and previously a C5 RS6 I'm at the point where I don't want to go down the 'grunt' ladder with a lower output engine. Call it what you will but I feel I've grown out of the 4-cylinder whippet phase and am comfortable with the effortless shift of the high capacity block. On top of the issue of finding another car with equal or increased power I'm also struggling to see any 500bhp+ cars with reliability levels anywhere near the M5.
Sure I've had the normal M5 Tourer issues, such as the infamous E61 tailgate wiring issue and the whole M5 clutch release bearing saga but all in I've found the M5 to be incredibly reliable for such a potent machine. My research into this car doesnt really bring up any bad points with regard to the cars build quality. The fantastic BMW Warranty takes care of that anyway. With the RS6 I constantly worried about the gearbox, the suspension, the alloys, the mafs, the intercooler etc. With the M5 I only worry about...... well, nothing. Fuel seems to be the M5 owners only concern. Is it a boring car for this reason?
And then there's the handling. Find me a car that will handle its 2 tonne belly so well and i'll look at it with great interest. The Audis just dont cut it and again there is the issue of DRC, even on the new C6's. Mercedes AMG's are ok but are not anywhere near the handling bar BMW has set. So, what does that leave?
So why do I feel the need to change? To be honest, I don't know. The car is stupidly quick and chuckable for a 2 tonne bus, its very practical as an estate (except fuel consumption) and its very reliable (touches wood). Nothing else ticks the same boxes. Could it be that the M5 is too good or too clinical? Does it lack heart? Have i hit the wall or peaked too soon?
Anyone else suffered the same stress? If anyone has an alternative car idea (up to £30k) then please add below also.
Eddie
Welcome to the world of cars.
Like one, buy it, bored in less than a year.
A never ending search my friend, there is always something wrong with all of them. To heavy, poor interior, too slow, blah, blah.
The M5 is fast and refined, but it's not the ultimate driving machine and that's probably the reason you’re bored.
List your requirements; does it have to be as practical as the touring?
Like one, buy it, bored in less than a year.
A never ending search my friend, there is always something wrong with all of them. To heavy, poor interior, too slow, blah, blah.
The M5 is fast and refined, but it's not the ultimate driving machine and that's probably the reason you’re bored.
List your requirements; does it have to be as practical as the touring?
What ive tried to do over the past 5 years is buy a car that caters for all my needs in one hit. It's limitig but i dont think ive done badly.
List of criteria i have used in the past:
1. Large rear load space for my 2 dogs / luggage for holidays.
2. Comfort and style as i often have family and friends on board.
3. Pace! This is a must.
4. Reliable.
5. Interesting (yes, the M5 Tourer is an intersting car) and involving.
6. I'd say that it needs some sort of prestige appearance to go with my job, but as i use the pedal bike 95% of the time i guess thats not so important.
7. Drivability and on-road performance.
8. Enjoyable.
I know i could do all this with 2 cars to give a wider spectrum of experience. One for the daily commute and load bearing job and another for fun. But, would i get enough use out of the toy to justify it? What could i get to fill the boots of the //M?
List of criteria i have used in the past:
1. Large rear load space for my 2 dogs / luggage for holidays.
2. Comfort and style as i often have family and friends on board.
3. Pace! This is a must.
4. Reliable.
5. Interesting (yes, the M5 Tourer is an intersting car) and involving.
6. I'd say that it needs some sort of prestige appearance to go with my job, but as i use the pedal bike 95% of the time i guess thats not so important.
7. Drivability and on-road performance.
8. Enjoyable.
I know i could do all this with 2 cars to give a wider spectrum of experience. One for the daily commute and load bearing job and another for fun. But, would i get enough use out of the toy to justify it? What could i get to fill the boots of the //M?
what you need my friend is a project.
i was doing the same as you.
205
106 gti
clio 172 (several of)
vx220
TT all before i was 21
then i bought myself a z4 3.0i and a mk1 golf... ive not really considered changing either for over 18 months. The golf is the project (still doesnt run) and the z4 is an adequate daily
i was doing the same as you.
205
106 gti
clio 172 (several of)
vx220
TT all before i was 21
then i bought myself a z4 3.0i and a mk1 golf... ive not really considered changing either for over 18 months. The golf is the project (still doesnt run) and the z4 is an adequate daily
Q. What do you need in a car? Reliability, performance, four doors, a boot.....electronics, a roof? Do you do track days, long drives and do you have a garage?
BMW M6 maybe! Jag XKR, Jag XF, Maserati Quattroporte.
My choice would be a Porsche 993 Carrera....beautiful cars, somewhat different, something you need to drive and requires human input to find the rewards.
If not keep the M5 and have fun.
BMW M6 maybe! Jag XKR, Jag XF, Maserati Quattroporte.
My choice would be a Porsche 993 Carrera....beautiful cars, somewhat different, something you need to drive and requires human input to find the rewards.
If not keep the M5 and have fun.
F2CSL said:
Welcome to the world of cars.
Like one, buy it, bored in less than a year.
A never ending search my friend, there is always something wrong with all of them. To heavy, poor interior, too slow, blah, blah.
The M5 is fast and refined, but it's not the ultimate driving machine and that's probably the reason you’re bored.
List your requirements; does it have to be as practical as the touring?
Good statement, would it be worth while purchasing a motorbike to go alongside your M5, you'd have a good fix then.Like one, buy it, bored in less than a year.
A never ending search my friend, there is always something wrong with all of them. To heavy, poor interior, too slow, blah, blah.
The M5 is fast and refined, but it's not the ultimate driving machine and that's probably the reason you’re bored.
List your requirements; does it have to be as practical as the touring?
If I were in your position and had the room I'd go for two cars:
http://www.thealpinaregister.com/D3/-/estate/226
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2986086.htm
http://www.thealpinaregister.com/D3/-/estate/226
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2986086.htm
Come on guys, you cannot be suggesting a 993 or a TVR to replace an E61 M5...
Eddie, you scare me, I am about to pull the trigger on a mint approved E61 and sell my Z4MC and 540i as I have decided to cut down the number of cars that I own. I blame my 11mths old daughter. Since her arrival my Z4MC has been driven 5 times and covered 5000 miles. Most of my driving has been in the 540i, which while brilliant is a bit boring. Thus I thought I would enliven the experience by buying an E61 - sensible family car and a good tow car for my racer. Having read your post I am bit...how shall I put it...uncertain whether to part with the readies. Btw, I am getting a good deal from BMW for what the car has as miles/options...
Eddie, you scare me, I am about to pull the trigger on a mint approved E61 and sell my Z4MC and 540i as I have decided to cut down the number of cars that I own. I blame my 11mths old daughter. Since her arrival my Z4MC has been driven 5 times and covered 5000 miles. Most of my driving has been in the 540i, which while brilliant is a bit boring. Thus I thought I would enliven the experience by buying an E61 - sensible family car and a good tow car for my racer. Having read your post I am bit...how shall I put it...uncertain whether to part with the readies. Btw, I am getting a good deal from BMW for what the car has as miles/options...
Are you px'ing your BM's for the E61? Dunno why it scares you that I have this urge. Its not that the car is crap or unreliable, quite the opposite to be honest. All I'm doing is going through the 'what next?' phase a little early. You are right though, I can't accept a 993 or Cerb as an alternative. Even a 996 is pushing it.
ecain63 said:
Are you px'ing your BM's for the E61? Dunno why it scares you that I have this urge. Its not that the car is crap or unreliable, quite the opposite to be honest. All I'm doing is going through the 'what next?' phase a little early. You are right though, I can't accept a 993 or Cerb as an alternative. Even a 996 is pushing it.
Nope, buying the E61 M5 for cash and selling my Z4MC privately - it still has warranty... The reason why I am now a bit uncertain is because your problem with the E61 sounds exactly as my problem with the E39. While I am not making a direct comparison between a thoroughbred M and a boggo car, albeit with a thumping V8, I cannot help and notice some paralels. The e39 is soo good at eating miles, 286bhp/500Nm is plenty for day to day dispatch of most pesky diesels; while it lacks some of the toys found in the E61, the interior/built quality is miles better and most importantly it costs peanuts to run except the fuel bills... I am just worried that I will buy a car, which is too good and will end up being bored with it... Btw, I tend to keep my cars for ever... I only buy cars that I really want and always find the idea of selling them a very difficult one to implement...
Keep the E61 and get a Z4MC - seriously, if you want a fun, unruly, interesting to master car, nothing comes even remotely close... I may actually talk myself into keeping mine and the status quo...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 7th July 17:28
Cheburator mk2 said:
ecain63 said:
Are you px'ing your BM's for the E61? Dunno why it scares you that I have this urge. Its not that the car is crap or unreliable, quite the opposite to be honest. All I'm doing is going through the 'what next?' phase a little early. You are right though, I can't accept a 993 or Cerb as an alternative. Even a 996 is pushing it.
Nope, buying the E61 M5 for cash and selling my Z4MC privately - it still has warranty... The reason why I am now a bit uncertain is because your problem with the E61 sounds exactly as my problem with the E39. While I am not making a direct comparison between a thoroughbred M and a boggo car, albeit with a thumping V8, I cannot help and notice some paralels. The e39 is soo good at eating miles, 286bhp/500Nm is plenty for day to day dispatch of most pesky diesels; while it lacks some of the toys found in the E61, the interior/built quality is miles better and most importantly it costs peanuts to run except the fuel bills... I am just worried that I will buy a car, which is too good and will end up being bored with it... Btw, I tend to keep my cars for ever... I only buy cars that I really want and always find the idea of selling them a very difficult one to implement...
Keep the E61 and get a Z4MC - seriously, if you want a fun, unruly, interesting to master car, nothing comes even remotely close... I may actually talk myself into keeping mine and the status quo...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 7th July 17:28
I think the real problem with the E61 and E60 M5 is that you really cannot use any of the cars potential, and i mean any of it. Even though it has all this power and ability on tap, you can never find the opportunity to unleash even half of its arsenal. Either the wife is in the car (screams bloody murder at the first sight of a downshift / sound of a blip) or the roads just dont allow it. Its a 'nice to have' but it bores away at your soul when the M button is staring at you, telling you that you'll never get to poke the hornets nest good and proper. Even when you do get to drop the hammer, you are into tripple figures in a heart beat and into 'custodial sentence' speeds a second after. This country really isnt the place for the E61 and i often feel i cannot give the car the kicking it needs on a regular basis.
I think the 1M has addressed this issue nicely with the addition of the turbocharger. Maybe if the new F10 M5 actually proves to be a UK-useable car then i'll wait and progress on to that afer a year of monumental depreciation. I love the E61, its just a shame we cannot give it the life it was designed for.
Eddie
As you basically confirmed my views on the Touring and therefore in essence made me buy the same car via some subversive mind trick, I can't believe you are considering a change! For the sub £30k mark there is nothing else out there that has all the elements you need in fast car, its a car for every occasion. I spent 6 months deciding what to get next and the M5 Touring ticked all of the boxes. No fast car is suitable for the UK roads if you have interest in preserving your licence or your life.
Check out www.howmanyleft.co.uk - only 181 of these cars were licensed in Q1 2011.
Q4 2009 there were 193, so this rare beast is getting more rare by the year, due to owners topping themselves over excessive fuel bills no doubt
Check out www.howmanyleft.co.uk - only 181 of these cars were licensed in Q1 2011.
Q4 2009 there were 193, so this rare beast is getting more rare by the year, due to owners topping themselves over excessive fuel bills no doubt
BobbyK said:
As you basically confirmed my views on the Touring and therefore in essence made me buy the same car via some subversive mind trick, I can't believe you are considering a change! For the sub £30k mark there is nothing else out there that has all the elements you need in fast car, its a car for every occasion. I spent 6 months deciding what to get next and the M5 Touring ticked all of the boxes. No fast car is suitable for the UK roads if you have interest in preserving your licence or your life.
Check out www.howmanyleft.co.uk - only 181 of these cars were licensed in Q1 2011.
Q4 2009 there were 193, so this rare beast is getting more rare by the year, due to owners topping themselves over excessive fuel bills no doubt
lol. I sure do like throwing cats amongst pigeons. Dont worry though, im sure its just a phase. The E61 rocks!!Check out www.howmanyleft.co.uk - only 181 of these cars were licensed in Q1 2011.
Q4 2009 there were 193, so this rare beast is getting more rare by the year, due to owners topping themselves over excessive fuel bills no doubt
On a similar note, the weather looks a bit ropey for saturday if my research is correct.
Have you thought about:
http://www.esstuning.com/pages/E6x-M5-%7B47%7D-M6-...
Would address the low rev torque issue and give you a useful 750bhp!
Really don`t understand people that say they don`t get to use their cars to the full potential. I wonder whether it`s the roads you are driving on you are bored with not the car? I drive on some great roads throughout Wiltshire and Berkshire and give the car its head on many an occasion.
Perhaps we should organise a V10 drive-out?
J
http://www.esstuning.com/pages/E6x-M5-%7B47%7D-M6-...
Would address the low rev torque issue and give you a useful 750bhp!
Really don`t understand people that say they don`t get to use their cars to the full potential. I wonder whether it`s the roads you are driving on you are bored with not the car? I drive on some great roads throughout Wiltshire and Berkshire and give the car its head on many an occasion.
Perhaps we should organise a V10 drive-out?
J
I grew up round there and there is a heavy plod presence too. My son is still in North Dorset so still get down that way.
I think I went through the same thing with my car at about the 9 month mark with a 612 scaglietti but am very glad I kept it. I just started driving it like it was intended, in a lower gear than is strictly necessary and always in P500 mdm mode. I also learnt the limits of the lateral grip of the car, which are way beyond what you would think. Obviously you`ll have to find somewhere forgiving to do this. If you have Contis on as well, change them.
I think I went through the same thing with my car at about the 9 month mark with a 612 scaglietti but am very glad I kept it. I just started driving it like it was intended, in a lower gear than is strictly necessary and always in P500 mdm mode. I also learnt the limits of the lateral grip of the car, which are way beyond what you would think. Obviously you`ll have to find somewhere forgiving to do this. If you have Contis on as well, change them.
I went through this same thought process and got rid of my e60 after 13 months. Part of the frustration for me was that the car was too quiet at anything short of silly speeds and also that the SMG could be really stupid when driving at low speed. Hopefully the f10 will be more rewarding all round.
This thread and your comments reminds of an article I read in the latest issue of CAR (July 2011, issue 588), page 54. The best car is the one that matches the journey your undertaking. I've very recently been thinking that buying my M3 was a mistake. I live in East London and there is little opportunity to fully enjoy the capabilities of my car. Having the power is great but not enough. Prior to th M3 I had a 130i which was somehow a more enjoyable car to own maybe because I wasn't paying a large premium for performance I rarely use. Perhaps what you need is not another super duper fast car but a car that makes you appreciate what the M5 has to offer. I'm bot suggesting you go this far, but I took a break from fast cars when my grandfather died and I took on his M reg Fiat Cinquecento - what fun it was to beat people off the lights, take the car to it's limits on every journey, not care that someone has opened there door into mine. This car made me feel free but more importantly made me re-assess why I love driving - a car is just a tool, driving is my passion. If you truly love driving, fun can be had in anything so long as you manage your expections.
So my suggestion is to keep the M5 but buy something smaller and fun as well. As someone else said, the perfect car does not exist and you will always want for more.
So my suggestion is to keep the M5 but buy something smaller and fun as well. As someone else said, the perfect car does not exist and you will always want for more.
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