Is there much difference between VAG brands?
Discussion
va1o said:
Skoda owners seem to constantly be trying to insist there cars are as good/ better than the equivalent VW, but they are not and never will be.
Is this fair? This thread's a branch of another about someone wanting an 8k bigger Golf. His wife doesn't want a Skoda badge though, so a vRS is off the shopping list. That thread can be found here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Several people leapt to the vRS's defence, me included. Some mentioned Seats.
tyranical said:
The golf gti, seat leon and skoda octavia are pretty much the same car.
When I bought my vRS 2 years ago, I could have spent £13.5k on a Golf GTi or £8.5 on an Octavia in a similar state and keep the other £5k in the bank. Not a bad saving for a 32kg weight penalty, a huge boot and a subtler appearance that doesn't attract the wrong sort of attention. I think they're subtler variations on the Leon/Golf/A3/A4 theme.Are they pretty much the same car? Do Skoda/Seat/VW fans go too far supporting their own particular flavour and splitting hairs to do it? Or are there important character differences between the different brands' offerings?
Should we all MTFU and buy RWD 5.0 V8's?
Discuss.
EDIT: Be nice to va1o if you're a Skoda fan! He agreed to a discussion in good faith, and I'd rather not repay his good grace with unfair criticism.
Edited by blearyeyedboy on Thursday 7th July 23:20
Some (though far from all) Audi owners seem really, really annoyed when I overtake them in a Skoda. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I'd not noticed this before I drove a VAG car.
Conversely, a lot of Skoda drivers act in a friendly manner towards me. VW drivers are largely indifferent.
Most Audi/Skoda drivers don't care.
Conversely, a lot of Skoda drivers act in a friendly manner towards me. VW drivers are largely indifferent.
Most Audi/Skoda drivers don't care.
The whole VAG heirachy is a marketing mans dream based on part/platform sharing. Audi and VW tend to lead on the engineering and technology front, and then once the R&D cost's are recuperated it's down to Seat then Skoda to keep using the same stuff until it becomes out dated or the new replacement is coming through the cycle.
lol ... sharing engine/transmission/electrics doesn't make them any more 'the same' than many other cars out there ... main 4 have different characters/segments OK a few overlaps here & there but so do others groups
I do sometimes find people that think a golf & an audi a4 are basically the same ... goons ... perhaps they are remembering the time when a vw passat was a rebadged audi 80 -- 30 years ago & assume things haven't changed
have tried vdub a few times, seat once & will move onto skoda sometime
I do sometimes find people that think a golf & an audi a4 are basically the same ... goons ... perhaps they are remembering the time when a vw passat was a rebadged audi 80 -- 30 years ago & assume things haven't changed
have tried vdub a few times, seat once & will move onto skoda sometime
Harji said:
An Audi A3 does not drive like a Golf, the steering feedback is completely different for a start.
I can't say I share your experience. So far this year at work we've had a MkVI Golf GTi, a TTRS, a 2011 S3 and a 2011 Leaon Cupra, and I didn't feel a great deal of difference between them.blearyeyedboy said:
va1o said:
Skoda owners seem to constantly be trying to insist there cars are as good/ better than the equivalent VW, but they are not and never will be.
Is this fair? This thread's a branch of another about someone wanting an 8k bigger Golf. His wife doesn't want a Skoda badge though, so a vRS is off the shopping list. That thread can be found here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Several people leapt to the vRS's defence, me included. Some mentioned Seats.
tyranical said:
The golf gti, seat leon and skoda octavia are pretty much the same car.
When I bought my vRS 2 years ago, I could have spent £13.5k on a Golf GTi or £8.5 on an Octavia in a similar state and keep the other £5k in the bank. Not a bad saving for a 32kg weight penalty, a huge boot and a subtler appearance that doesn't attract the wrong sort of attention. I think they're subtler variations on the Leon/Golf/A3/A4 theme.Edited by blearyeyedboy on Thursday 7th July 23:20
I've a Mk1 Leon Cupra R. Now comparing my car to an Octavia VRS of the same vintage, it has Brembo brake calipers, much larger front discs, two intercoolers rather than one, a larger turbo (K04 vs K03) and many other technical differences. Yes the platform is the same, but the Mk1 Cupra R is in my opinion significantly better than the Mk 1 Octavia VRS. The Mk2 Leon Cupra is similarly better than a Mk2 Octavia vRS which also has a larger turbocharger amongst many other differences. Note I'm not trying to disparage the Octavia, but rather describe some of the differences.
Of course other cars sharing the platform such as R32 and Edition 30 Golfs are different again. So no, they are not always the same cars with a different badge.
busta said:
The whole VAG heirachy is a marketing mans dream based on part/platform sharing. Audi and VW tend to lead on the engineering and technology front, and then once the R&D cost's are recuperated it's down to Seat then Skoda to keep using the same stuff until it becomes out dated or the new replacement is coming through the cycle.
You've got a point with Seat Exeo, but the rest of Seat and Skoda's offerings all use the same generation platform as their VW equivalents.Edited by blearyeyedboy on Thursday 7th July 23:52
Olivera said:
Note I'm not trying to disparage the Octavia, but rather describe some of the differences.
Which is the point of the thread. Thanks for taking it in the spirit that was intended. I always thought the Mk 2 Octavia vRS/Mk5 Golf GTi were always more fairly compared to the Mk 2 Leon FR. The Cupra/Cupra R are clearly much more powerful vehicles, as is the GTi Edition 30.
The Golf R is a different ball game to any of those, isn't it?
At the shopping end of the range the difference is more down to the quality of the grab handle damping than anything else.
I've driven most of the Golf sized variants and there's not much difference. The premium stuff is a nicer place to be and you do wonder if the monthly lease fee may be worth it. I'm staggered that a modified Skoda Fabia platform can command over £20k
I've driven most of the Golf sized variants and there's not much difference. The premium stuff is a nicer place to be and you do wonder if the monthly lease fee may be worth it. I'm staggered that a modified Skoda Fabia platform can command over £20k
blearyeyedboy said:
busta said:
The whole VAG heirachy is a marketing mans dream based on part/platform sharing. Audi and VW tend to lead on the engineering and technology front, and then once the R&D cost's are recuperated it's down to Seat then Skoda to keep using the same stuff until it becomes out dated or the new replacement is coming through the cycle.
You've got a point with Seat Exeo, but the rest of Seat and Skoda's offerings all use the same generation platform as their VW equivalents.Edited by blearyeyedboy on Thursday 7th July 23:52
Body panels, lights and interiors are cheaper to develop than transmissions, engines and chassis. So making lots of different looking cars is cheaper than making lot's of different engines and gearboxes.
Well, I've driven & been a passenger in a mk1 Fabia & been a passenger in the equivalent Polo. As a passenger certainly I couldn't tell any difference between the two. The Fabia had marginally more engine noise but then that was a diesel whereas the Polo was a petrol. Ride quality, certainly couldn't comment on any difference. Interior 'feel' was identical. But then, I'm not massively pedantic, so it could be that I simply didn't notice. Also, note I haven't driven the Polo, only ridden in it, so truly it is only from the passenger perspective that I can comment they're identical.
IMO from what I know, I'd say that they really are the ultimate in marketing, and if my money was to go on one of the brands for most instances it would actually be SEAT, purely because I prefer the looks of the cars
IMO from what I know, I'd say that they really are the ultimate in marketing, and if my money was to go on one of the brands for most instances it would actually be SEAT, purely because I prefer the looks of the cars
Theres changes here and there, stuff like slightly older engines, different spring and shock combinations, different anti-roll bar diameters and stuff like that changes how they drive but they are all broadly similar.
The difference between a VRS and a GTI is more than some will have you believe and the Golf is the better car for it but worth the extra? Theres the sticking point.
They are all still pretty boring to drive in my opinion and in the Leon it certainly feels cheaper. Quick and competant and almost too good is why they are boring, not because they cant be driven hard or anything of the sort just a bit german.
The difference between a VRS and a GTI is more than some will have you believe and the Golf is the better car for it but worth the extra? Theres the sticking point.
They are all still pretty boring to drive in my opinion and in the Leon it certainly feels cheaper. Quick and competant and almost too good is why they are boring, not because they cant be driven hard or anything of the sort just a bit german.
I've had the opportunity to drive different VAG products of the same generation and with the same platform/engine on several occasions, as we have a very VAG biased company fleet at work.
Apart from the superficial differences of body styling and interior trim/plastics (the Audi is certainly best in terms of trim plastics quality, but the difference isn't as big as you might expect), the biggest difference is in terms of suspension.
An Audi on sports suspension is intolerably and unnecessaririly hard - everyone, without exception, who has driven one on our fleet has said that whilst it feels 'sporty' and nice to drive quickly on smooth, twisty roads, the bump-thump on motorways and the ride on badly surfaced roads is just plain irritating. Even the vRS Skodas and GTi Golfs are substantially more compliant.
I've not noticed a big difference in brakes on the latest generation cars, little difference in steering feel (and what there is of the latter might easily be just down to tyres), and the engines/gearboxes, of course, are identical.
I think it's fair to say that the further you go back to older generations of the cars, the more pronounced the differences were - they definitely seem to be converging in terms of build quality, in particular, and I guess it makes sense for VAG to continue to rationalise down to the bare minimum of different components.
Apart from the superficial differences of body styling and interior trim/plastics (the Audi is certainly best in terms of trim plastics quality, but the difference isn't as big as you might expect), the biggest difference is in terms of suspension.
An Audi on sports suspension is intolerably and unnecessaririly hard - everyone, without exception, who has driven one on our fleet has said that whilst it feels 'sporty' and nice to drive quickly on smooth, twisty roads, the bump-thump on motorways and the ride on badly surfaced roads is just plain irritating. Even the vRS Skodas and GTi Golfs are substantially more compliant.
I've not noticed a big difference in brakes on the latest generation cars, little difference in steering feel (and what there is of the latter might easily be just down to tyres), and the engines/gearboxes, of course, are identical.
I think it's fair to say that the further you go back to older generations of the cars, the more pronounced the differences were - they definitely seem to be converging in terms of build quality, in particular, and I guess it makes sense for VAG to continue to rationalise down to the bare minimum of different components.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 8th July 07:26
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