Cheap Chims

[whazzinit]

Hi all

I picked up my 4.0 Chimaera just over eight years ago. Its a lovely car, with low miles, used mainly on weekends. Always loved and garaged throughout its life, my P reg is a car to be proud of.

Over the last couple of months, Ive noticed Chim prices taking a nose dive on this site, with cars as cheap as GBP4.5K. Whilst I have no intenion on selling my TVR in the near future, I am concerned both as a british car enthusiast and a TVR owner that sellers with ridiculously low prices are damaging the market.

[JonyTVR]

last couple of months they've gone up, wait till winter then they really nose dive! its the natural progression of things, them being cheap now will end up with them getting in the wrong hands, end up smashed up or wrecked then after a couple of years the nice ones will start commanding good money as there will be far less for sale. unless your buying or selling why worry? just enjoy the car! personally I'm happy as I wouldn't have been able to afford one before, and whilst I'm young I am and always have been bonkers about TVR.

[BrightYellowTVR]

whazzinit said:

Hi all

I picked up my 4.0 Chimaera just over eight years ago. Its a lovely car, with low miles, used mainly on weekends. Always loved and garaged throughout its life, my P reg is a car to be proud of.

Over the last couple of months, Ive noticed Chim prices taking a nose dive on this site, with cars as cheap as GBP4.5K. Whilst I have no intenion on selling my TVR in the near future, I am concerned both as a british car enthusiast and a TVR owner that sellers with ridiculously low prices are damaging the market.

Actually I was thinking the opposite, I also have a P reg 4.0 chimaera owned for past 10 years and don't feel it has dropped that much. I did get a bargain at the time (circa £13k) and it's a keeper so not bothered about price really. I was looking from more of an insurance perspective and wondering how much to re-insure for, currently around the £10k mark which I feel is still about right. To me condition will vary greatly and this will drive the price. I also agree that as they become rarer the price will firm up or maybe even increase. Anyway who cares just drive it, it's the grin factor that never goes away
Jon

[ewan221]

I have been looking over last 3 months and prices very much all over the place at the moment but generally asking prices are on the up a bit, but thats no real indication of what they are actually selling for. I have noticed on ebay that by far the majority listed dont meet reserve or dont have any bis at all.

Cars in good condition are being advertised at higher price but again there can be massive differences for example near me there is two 98 450's for sale both with good history and there is £5k difference in the asking price.

[900T-R]

Chimaera prices are still very much all over the place IMO with ropey 4.0s up at higher asking prices than very nice 4.5 or 5 litres with much of the big stuff taken care for, meaning there still are relative bargains to be had. All in all though I'd say they're slightly up.

[ewan221]

Not wanting to sound like Blackpool Rocket but a good few cars for sale at moment seem to be overpriced and have been up for sale for ages. as previous poster said some pre facelift 400's are especially expensive.

[zippo73]

Totally agree with the previous posting

[peaktorque]

ewan221 said:

some pre facelift 400's are especially expensive.

That's because they're far superior in the looks department

[OldSkoolRS]

As a prospective buyer I'm aware that there are some very low priced TVRs about, but TBH I'd almost ignore them if too cheap as I'd expect them to need big money spending to make them good: Outriggers rusting, camshaft worn, needing suspension rebuilds, maybe clutch and generally scruffy interior/bodywork. I'd rather spend a bit more to get one that is ready to enjoy rather than a potential money pit.

However, if someone is selling a good example cheaply, then there's nothing you can do about it, though I don't really believe it will lower the price of yours anyway. They may be in dire need of the money and willing to undervalue it for a quick sale. Recently there was a tidy sounding 500 on here that the seller just wanted rid of as he'd already bought his next car...he just lowered the price until he got a buyer. As a buyer I'd like to think that he's set the bar for future 500 sales, but I know that isn't the case unless another cash strapped seller appears. You also have to wonder if they need the cash that desparately then have they been skimping on maintenance...

However, I have to say that a certain dealer that is based down south seems to be taking the piss regarding prices IMHO. Which may explain why the same cars I was looking at 2 months ago still seem to be for sale now.

[Alexdaredevilz]

OldSkoolRS said:

I'd expect them to need big money spending to make them good: Outriggers rusting, camshaft worn, needing suspension rebuilds, maybe clutch and generally scruffy interior/bodywork. I'd rather spend a bit more to get one that is ready to enjoy rather than a potential money pit.

But thats half the fun

[graeme4130]

OldSkoolRS said:

However, I have to say that a certain dealer that is based down south seems to be taking the piss regarding prices IMHO.

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. Went to visit said place, and although they're friendly, professional and have a good selection of cars, the ones there were circa 4-6k over open Market price and not perhaps in the absolute 'mint' condition you'd be expecting of a car for £18k for example.
Was a good opportunity to compare a bunch of cars though.

As for Market price, then I've got to agree with some of the comments above. Most of the cars that are perhaps priced near the very top end of the scale seem to he staying unsold on here, on eBay, and on tvroc website.
There are some cheap good cars out there, but I think you need to be prepared to sift through some craps ones before you find that gem. Not sure this is driving costs up or down though as I think this has been the case for some years no ?

[Flintstone]

JonyTVR said:

...them being cheap now will end up with them getting in the wrong hands...

I know the term 'wrong' sounds snobbish but I agree in part. The bit I disagree with is that they will fall into those hands when I think it's already happening. Those who think they can run one on Mondeo money are having an effect.

[OldSkoolRS]

Alexdaredevilz said:

But thats half the fun

Nah...I've got a car in bits in my garage right now and it's certainly not fun. I'd rather be driving it than fking about with a welder and grinder. Improving an already solid car, then fair enough, but not a total rebuild for me anyway. To me it doesn't make sense to buy a cheap rough one, then spend the difference (and probably more) bringing it upto scratch. The only exception I'd make to this would be one with cosmetic issues, but good mechanicals and chassis condition: I could respray one and replace the trim (perhaps good condition used seats, etc) and put some value on the car and end up with the colour combo I prefer.

graeme4130 said:

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. Went to visit said place, and although they're friendly, professional and have a good selection of cars, the ones there were circa 4-6k over open Market price and not perhaps in the absolute 'mint' condition you'd be expecting of a car for £18k for example.
Was a good opportunity to compare a bunch of cars though.

I've considered driving down there to have a look, to get a feel for how good (or not) their cars are, but I just wouldn't feel right knowing that I wouldn't be buying one from them when I could find a similar car for so much less. I'd also expect them to be totally mint for those prices, so could almost justify it if I wanted minimum risk and a pristine example. However, if they are just overpriced, then I may as well look elsewhere when the time comes, so thanks for the heads up.

[OldSkoolRS]

Flintstone said:

I know the term 'wrong' sounds snobbish but I agree in part. The bit I disagree with is that they will fall into those hands when I think it's already happening. Those who think they can run one on Mondeo money are having an effect.

Missed this comment: As a limited mileage classic insured car then I probably will be running it for Mondeo money (or at least what someone running a Mondeo as a daily driver might spend), sorry if this offends you in some way. However, should it require some work doing that I'm not prepared to do myself, rest assured I can afford to pay a specialist to fix it for me.

[graeme4130]

OldSkoolRS said:

I've considered driving down there to have a look, to get a feel for how good (or not) their cars are, but I just wouldn't feel right knowing that I wouldn't be buying one from them when I could find a similar car for so much less. I'd also expect them to be totally mint for those prices, so could almost justify it if I wanted minimum risk and a pristine example. However, if they are just overpriced, then I may as well look elsewhere when the time comes, so thanks for the heads up.

Don't take it as gospel from my experience, but the couple I did look at didn't seem to be in any more perfect condition that one's in the open market (or even at other dealers) for a fair few 1000's less.
They must move them on at that price though I guess, or they wouldn't still be in business.
Although, they do offer a 12 months warranty, but still not sure that justifies a possible £4-5k premium as the failure would have to be pretty catastrophic to cost that much to repair for it to be worthwhile

[900T-R]

OldSkoolRS said:

I'd rather spend a bit more to get one that is ready to enjoy rather than a potential money pit.

In theory, yes. Given the nature of the beasts I'd humbly submit that regardless of purchase price level, you will want to spend money on a Chim before declaring it unconditionally 'ready to enjoy'.

You could have a 'perfect' original E-type but if you were to really use it in todays traffic there'd always be a certain level of anxiety that simply isn't there with, say, an Eagle E-Type.
Though to a lesser extent, I see Chimaeras and Griffiths going the same way - they were hand built, to a price, 9-18 years ago. You can simply 'maintain' them or you can thoroughly sort them with all the fixes and re-thinks for known foibles and weak spots that have surfaced in the meantime (or something in between those extremes) - in the latter case you'll end up with a much more enjoyable car. BUT at current price level, examples that are truly sorted in this manner will only come to the market every once in a blue moon, it simply makes no sense to spend that much money on a TVR to get it at the levelwhere you can enjoy it unconditionally, and then flog it at maybe a small premium over the current market prices which are IMO at, or may just past, their lowest point (barring a total economic collapse in the UK/Europe). Far more sensible to keep enjoying the car for what it is, knowing that you won't lose out on depreciation...

[JonyTVR]

Flintstone said:

JonyTVR said:

...them being cheap now will end up with them getting in the wrong hands...

I know the term 'wrong' sounds snobbish but I agree in part. The bit I disagree with is that they will fall into those hands when I think it's already happening. Those who think they can run one on Mondeo money are having an effect.

and they cant because? I wont ever skimp on anything that needs doing but for instance I got 2 lots of oil (valvoline VR1) and filters (bosch) the day from ECP for 40 odd quid. chim/griffs/wedges are not complicated machines, they are so simple and easy to work on.

luckily enough I have a great local area who not one person has been snobbish to be despite the fact Im 22/23. When I say falling into the wrong hands I mean the people who think they can be run on nothing, will bodge anything and everything till they fly off the road into a hedge by driving beyond their limits the 1st time it rains.

[.Mark]

graeme4130 said:

OldSkoolRS said:

I've considered driving down there to have a look, to get a feel for how good (or not) their cars are, but I just wouldn't feel right knowing that I wouldn't be buying one from them when I could find a similar car for so much less. I'd also expect them to be totally mint for those prices, so could almost justify it if I wanted minimum risk and a pristine example. However, if they are just overpriced, then I may as well look elsewhere when the time comes, so thanks for the heads up.

Don't take it as gospel from my experience, but the couple I did look at didn't seem to be in any more perfect condition that one's in the open market (or even at other dealers) for a fair few 1000's less.
They must move them on at that price though I guess, or they wouldn't still be in business.
Although, they do offer a 12 months warranty, but still not sure that justifies a possible £4-5k premium as the failure would have to be pretty catastrophic to cost that much to repair for it to be worthwhile

I think I know who you are talking about...and yes their cars are dearer but from what I've seen they are top notch (not seen a ropey one there but not visited for quite a few months). Their warranty is very good and after sales service when we bought the Chimaera was absolutely second to none, so in my mind worth a premium (but maybe not 4-5k).
Would have got the Cerb from there too but they just couldn't quite source the one I was looking for so I went private.

[saml666]

900T-R said:

In theory, yes. Given the nature of the beasts I'd humbly submit that regardless of purchase price level, you will want to spend money on a Chim before declaring it unconditionally 'ready to enjoy'.

When I bought mine I looked at a few £12k 500s (etc) down to £5k 400s.

No £12k car I saw could be guaranteed as being rot free, of sound engine etc. and I REALLY wanted to know I would have a good chassis so I bought a cheap 400 and rebuilt it. I've missed out on 2 years of driving it (my own slow fault!) but I have the car I wanted.

Brand new 4.6 engine built for about 280bhp, brand new brakes from master cylinder to calipers, new bushes, new coil overs, galvanised chassis and suspensions arms etc. It has cost more than the 500s I was looking at but I just wanted everything to be sorted.

Ironically, now I know it is I'm already looking at possible resale value and what else to spend the money on. Not a good habit but boys will be boys! Anyway, point being, I'd agree with 900T-R ... I felt I would be spending money whatever I bought so decided to do the lot on the cheapest car I could find at the time.

Cheers,
Sam

Available for investment advice anytime. Guaranteed returns in excess of -200%

[pwd95]

Galvanizing went ok did it?