Discussion
[quote=jerseyvixen]any one no where to find decent brake shoes for vixens to use on track/hillclimb
the ones i have are that hard they might do the next 40 years
thanks[/quote
Assuming they're TR4, Moss do competition shoes at a reasonable cost. Cambridge Motorsport also do competition shoes and the b****y expensive kellated ones
R
the ones i have are that hard they might do the next 40 years
thanks[/quote
Assuming they're TR4, Moss do competition shoes at a reasonable cost. Cambridge Motorsport also do competition shoes and the b****y expensive kellated ones
R
Talk To adrian Venn.
He sells Bonded, Riveted competition linings...
Though to be honest all you will ever need with your car is std good quality, 85% of a vixen is front braking!!
The TR6 / Triumph 2000 was a much much heavier car than a vixen, a Std braking system in good / new condition is more than up to the job of stopping a little vixen!!
N.
He sells Bonded, Riveted competition linings...
Though to be honest all you will ever need with your car is std good quality, 85% of a vixen is front braking!!
The TR6 / Triumph 2000 was a much much heavier car than a vixen, a Std braking system in good / new condition is more than up to the job of stopping a little vixen!!
N.
The requirement here is to pull all 4 tyres/wheels down to the ground equally and although the front pads, something like Ferodo 2500 and standard shoes do this,they are too hard (as Lloyd says) for sprinting etc. the materials have to be soft enough to generate heat and wear (so create dust) be bonded and riveted to stopped the heat from melting them off the backing on the limits.
Standard shoes can be treated like racing motorbike parts, placed onto a back plate and set up with slave and an adjuster then dressed on a lathe to the ID of the drum, so that when in operation full contact is made (because they will never wear into full face contact in normal use) OR shot blast the interior of the drum and use this as the abrading surface which will then shape the shoes whilst dressing the drum surface back.
Adrian@
Standard shoes can be treated like racing motorbike parts, placed onto a back plate and set up with slave and an adjuster then dressed on a lathe to the ID of the drum, so that when in operation full contact is made (because they will never wear into full face contact in normal use) OR shot blast the interior of the drum and use this as the abrading surface which will then shape the shoes whilst dressing the drum surface back.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 21st July 11:04
Adrian@ said:
The requirement here is to pull all 4 tyres/wheels down to the ground equally and although the front pads, something like Ferodo 2500 and standard shoes do this,they are too hard (as Lloyd says) for sprinting etc. the materials have to be soft enough to generate heat and wear (so create dust) be bonded and riveted to stopped the heat from melting them off the backing on the limits.
Standard shoes can be treated like racing motorbike parts, placed onto a back plate and set up with slave and an adjuster then dressed on a lathe to the ID of the drum, so that when in operation full contact is made (because they will never wear into full face contact in normal use) OR shot blast the interior of the drum and use this as the abrading surface which will then shape the shoes whilst dressing the drum surface back.
Adrian@
Adrian, this is a friendly reply. i have just read this several times and now after more years than i care to admit i have been fitting brake shoes incorrectly. i always fit shoes that are ,when fitted, a smaller radius than the brake drum allowing me TO fit it quite easily. I then use tha adjusters to bring the facing material into contact with the drum so it is just binding AND then back it off A little. A couple of dabs on the brake pedal TO centralise the shoes, recheck the adjustment and Robert is your mothers brother. A few miles drive to warm everything up and bed everything in and recheck adjustment next time i have the time.Standard shoes can be treated like racing motorbike parts, placed onto a back plate and set up with slave and an adjuster then dressed on a lathe to the ID of the drum, so that when in operation full contact is made (because they will never wear into full face contact in normal use) OR shot blast the interior of the drum and use this as the abrading surface which will then shape the shoes whilst dressing the drum surface back.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 21st July 11:04
Classic car ownership is becoming far too complicated and potentially expensive. i now have the options now of A) buying a lathe BIG enough to turn a 7" brake assembly,b) take all my cars to a specialist or c)THE obvious cheapest alternative sell them all.
Adrian, I still dont understand how that could improve the rear brakes. How do you hold the backplate in the chuck? and given the slave cylinder slides in the backplate how and where do you fix it to be central? How much measured improvement do you get.
I cant imagine that the rear brakes on a hillclimb need any more effort than a road car with 2 people in, 12 gallons of fuel and luggage for a touring holiday coming down the Stelvio Pass and i,ve done that a few times in my Grantura and many other TVR,s over the years with no ill effects using standard linings just "thrown in".
Assuming the drums are round the most important things on the rear brakes is the lining material being suitable for the temperatures geneated and the slave cylinders sliding free in the backplate. The most common fault with brakes on most TVR,s is old brake fluid. Brake fluid, ignoring silicon, is hygroscopic (that means it absorbs water from the atmosphere).The result of this is the water boils in the fluid leading to a long pedal and ultimately brake failure. Of the 15% to 20% of the braking effort to the rear brakes I cant imagine how much if any improvement could be achieved by turning the shoes down, even if it were possible. Now if the rear brakes were twin leading shoes................
I cant imagine that the rear brakes on a hillclimb need any more effort than a road car with 2 people in, 12 gallons of fuel and luggage for a touring holiday coming down the Stelvio Pass and i,ve done that a few times in my Grantura and many other TVR,s over the years with no ill effects using standard linings just "thrown in".
Assuming the drums are round the most important things on the rear brakes is the lining material being suitable for the temperatures geneated and the slave cylinders sliding free in the backplate. The most common fault with brakes on most TVR,s is old brake fluid. Brake fluid, ignoring silicon, is hygroscopic (that means it absorbs water from the atmosphere).The result of this is the water boils in the fluid leading to a long pedal and ultimately brake failure. Of the 15% to 20% of the braking effort to the rear brakes I cant imagine how much if any improvement could be achieved by turning the shoes down, even if it were possible. Now if the rear brakes were twin leading shoes................
MY understanding AND when I have seen this done for me (and why I used the the word dressing rather than turning in a lathe) is to give the shoes FULL contact with the drum at a given point in time....again why I mentioned the blasting and using the drum as the abrading medium with the same results. I have used both methods and found it possible to lock rear wheels, (granted this then led to a safety issue regards tyres etc. but the last time I did this we added tyre width to compensate, which was all part of my evolution to rear disc kits for my Turbo)
Adrian@
edited to say ...what I say to anyone who asks me for more power to go faster..get better brakes!
Adrian@
edited to say ...what I say to anyone who asks me for more power to go faster..get better brakes!
Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 21st July 21:45
Now you've lost me. Why would you possibly want to be able to lock the rear brakes in a competition car? This will either stall the engine if the clutch is engaged (probably resulting in a spin) or will result in significant drive train shunt on releasing the clutch if whilst the clutch is depressed, again probably resulting in a spin.
davegt6 said:
Now you've lost me. Why would you possibly want to be able to lock the rear brakes in a competition car? This will either stall the engine if the clutch is engaged (probably resulting in a spin) or will result in significant drive train shunt on releasing the clutch if whilst the clutch is depressed, again probably resulting in a spin.
Totally right, with optimising the shoes like this there is zero consistency, I would get them working and as I said, I needed to add tyre to put that force down to the ground, I went there because I did not want to spend lots of money changing to discs, and lots of money on shoe materials. Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 26th July 08:18
Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff