So I test drove a clio 197....Not impressed.

[pops and bangs]

I've decided to get rid of my car soon, and have been starting to look at other options.

I'm looking at hot hatches, I went and test drove a clio 197, 50k on the clock on a 3 year old, and 2 owners, which put me off in a way, but mileage isn't always the be all and end all.

First impressions were it was nice and subtle to look at, the first thing I noticed were the silver brembo brakes, but I'm a bit of a brake freak lol.

Cosmetically I didn't really like the way the exhausts were pointing down and hidden, and the diffuser looked ugly.

Now you might wonder why I test drove a car I wasn't overly impressed by in terms of looks, but looks are not a priority at all.

Anyway the interior was ok, nothing to shout about, although I did like the support the seats gave. And the keyless start and entry was pretty cool.

Now onto the drive, and I've always heard people ranting and raving about the clio sports range, now the weather wasn't great (it was peeing down unfortunately) but I still tried to give the car a good run, the salesman was more than happy for me to floor it.

Now the first thing that struck me was how gutless they were at lower revs, obviously I wasn't expecting massive power, but even up the higher rev range I felt underwhelmed.

I'm not sure whether my expectations were possibly too high, but I was expecting more.

The car was up for £8000 and I've got a budget of £9000 but the lower the better obviously.

The only thing is I want to buy from a dealer, so private sales are not an option as I want to have some comeback when spending that sort of money.

Now obviously I'm going to test drive cars, and wouldn't buy strictly from what a random person told me on the internet, but I'm wanting some recommendations on alternatives to the clio 197, insurance wasn't a problem.

They wanted an extra £100 lump sum for 7 months (premium was paid in full), so I'm not wanting cars in much higher insurance groups.

Thanks in advance

[hewlett]

Great engine and good handling car but...far too heavy which blunts acceleration and far too big IMHO.

[16v_paddy]

I'd suggest having a look at the Renaultsport Meganes, your budget allows for some of the better R26 F1's

[pops and bangs]

hewlett said:

Great engine and good handling car but...far too heavy which blunts acceleration and far too big IMHO.

Yeah to be honest I was expecting to be blown away, I drive a little mx5 now which is the 1.8 and isn't particularly fast, but I wouldn't say it was like night and day.

It was definitely faster, and definitely had more torque though.

I think I was maybe expecting too much though...

16v_paddy said:

I'd suggest having a look at the Renaultsport Meganes, your budget allows for some of the better R26 F1's

I'd love one (or rather to go and see one), it's finding one that's a problem. The dealer I went to only had the clio 197 instock, nothing else remotely sporty at all.

Out of interest with regards to hot hatches where does the clio 197 stand, as what I'm thinking is if it's meant to be one of the faster ones I'm going to be very underwhelmed at alternatives.

[MGZRod]

From what i've gathered the megane seems to be a more agile type of focus ST competitor.

the clio I can imagine being great on track flat out, but not enough for day to day fun. great cars though.

[pops and bangs]

MGZRod said:

From what i've gathered the megane seems to be a more agile type of focus ST competitor.

the clio I can imagine being great on track flat out, but not enough for day to day fun. great cars though.

To be honest driving that day to day wouldn't be anything special I imagine.

No real sense of occasion at all.

Not that I get that with my current car though....

On the one hand I do like the subtle touches, e.g the wide front arches, the vents to cool the brakes etc, and I did like the seats, very comfy.

What's odd though is I had a look at parkers, which isn't the most accurate but they quote just under 7 seconds to 60, I had a stilo abarth before the mazda and that actually felt faster. (Or I could be looking back with rose tinted glasses)

[Checkmate]

16v_paddy said:

I'd suggest having a look at the Renaultsport Meganes, your budget allows for some of the better R26 F1's

One particular one of these nearly dissuaded me from the Clio. I decided I had to have a car as close to group B as possible though, and not a hot hatch - so I ended up with a different machine. Can't say I regret my choice at all.
BTW you can pick up a phase 1 in your budget

[16v_paddy]

pops and bangs said:

Out of interest with regards to hot hatches where does the clio 197 stand, as what I'm thinking is if it's meant to be one of the faster ones I'm going to be very underwhelmed at alternatives.

Depends who you ask really, ask an owner of a clio 200 & they'll probably say the 197 is utter tosh & bore you with the details of what massive changes they made with the 200 & why that made the 197 so crap

I think the problem with the mk3 clio is how bloody big they are or how much bigger they've got but the engine power hasn't gone up in the same sort of proportions. It's something I only realised the 1st time I parked my mk1 next to a 197, it's bloody massive in comparison
With how big the cars are now, I don't think modern, naturally aspirated hot hatches can really be considered as fast any more, hence suggesting something with a turbo like the megane

[nickythesaint]

16v_paddy said:

I'd suggest having a look at the Renaultsport Meganes, your budget allows for some of the better R26 F1's

+1. Probably a more satisfying car ownerships experience all around too (apart from the stickers).

[Checkmate]

16v_paddy said:

Depends who you ask really, ask an owner of a clio 200 & they'll probably say the 197 is utter tosh & bore you with the details of what massive changes they made with the 200 & why that made the 197 so crap

I think the problem with the mk3 clio is how bloody big they are or how much bigger they've got but the engine power hasn't gone up in the same sort of proportions. It's something I only realised the 1st time I parked my mk1 next to a 197, it's bloody massive in comparison
With how big the cars are now, I don't think modern, naturally aspirated hot hatches can really be considered as fast any more, hence suggesting something with a turbo like the megane

It's daft how many times people have said my Clio is inferior to say a 182 Cup. Ooh it's quicker around a track they say. Entirely missing the point. If I wanted a fast car the Clio would not be it, but for how much of a joyful machine it is to hurl around good roads there is no comparison IMO. Size is only a concern if you can't park. If you want a fast hatch go ahead and buy a turbo Focus or Seat or such. It just depends what you are after.

[16v_paddy]

My point about the size of the car is more about the increase in weight & resulting impact on the power to weight ratio

As much as I don't like the V6 & how much I slag off my mates one, they are a massive giggle to drive

I'm (sort of)trying to avoid making a sweeping statement about the 197/200 as I've never driven one

Edited by 16v_paddy on Wednesday 20th July 02:08

[Checkmate]

Well I'm not really in a position to comment on the 197 or 200 as I haven't had a chance to have a play with either. I do though agree that the modern breed of "hot" hatches have lost a lot of what made them special in the first place. Extra weight, and power to compensate, makes hot hatches somewhat less interesting these days. But a fast hatch is still about the best fun on wheels.

Look at the Megane, OP.

[frosted]

Think the biggest problem was the fact it was raining , any hot hatch owner should know this . Can't believe no one mentioned yet grrr...

[John D.]

frosted said:

Think the biggest problem was the fact it was raining , any hot hatch owner should know this . Can't believe no one mentioned yet grrr...

Yeah everyone knows hot hatches go slower in the rain

[vrsmxtb]

OK depending on if you're willing to give TDI's a look, how about a late 07 plate Fabia VRS (maybe an LE for the leather interior, far better than the standard) and spend the rest of the budget on a remap, brake upgrade and new suspension and extra bracing / rear ARB. That will be night and day in terms of power with a MX5 (I know, I have both!) and sorting the suspension will bring the night and day difference in handling that bit closer too!

Or see the Mazda 3 MPS thread that's running here? The old shape should be in budget.

[S3_Graham]

16v_paddy said:

I don't think modern, naturally aspirated hot hatches can really be considered as fast any more, hence suggesting something with a turbo like the megane

My 130 does just fine without a turbo 6 seconds to 60 is quick enough!

ETA: £9000 will get you a non AUC 130 from a dealer with 60k on it.

[philmots]

I had a 172 Cup. Test drove a 197 and although it was better in every other way it felt like a step back in terms of power. So I bought the Megane F1 which was substantially quicker (even before the remap!)

It lost about 5% of the Clios chuckability but gained a lot more stability and ibhad confidence in it that I couldn't of dreamt of in the Clio.

Try out a Megane OP

[autofocus]

Hi there,

I bought my 197 F1 in December 2010, and have done around 10,000 miles in it since then.

The car is superb, and a reel hoot it you drive it right. The key to getting the best out of the 197 is to rev it, these things have a red line around 7000 rpm and you need to drive it to just over 6000 rpm before the shift light comes on. If you pootle along at 3000 rpm then it will feel heavy, and pretty slow.
Mine still surprises me, on a dual carriageway last night I was doing around 75mph, dropped it down a couple of gears and pulled out to overtake and the bloody thing took off.

I have done a Donington track day in mine and it was great fun, you really ought to give it another look.

Out of interest was the one you test drove a Cup or a normal car. It will make a difference.

Regards

Tim

[nottyash]

I test drove one when they first came out. The Mrs said "put your foot down" My reply "it is". Her reply "Thats rubbish"
The end

[waterwonder]

I have had a variety of Renaultsports as company cars and i would say It's pretty hard to 'get' the clio 197/200 until you've driven it anger. It's a car that needs to be driven hard on or just over the limit. Othewise as the OP has suggested it just feels a bit slow and cumbersome. Apart from the 182 i've yet to find another car that i was so confident about flinging into a corner. It also never feels like it's been punnished the brakes don't fade, the suspension keeps up on bad surfaces etc etc.

The megane is the same but significantly quicker although i never felt as comfortable pushing even the R26 as far as the clios.

By contrast i've owned a Cooper S and a Focus ST, both have vastly better engines than their respective renault counterparts and feel quicker and both probably gave more smiles on daily basis. However neither felt particularly good being really hustled.

It depends what you want. When i was i younger and driving the Renaults i used to drive everywhere like my hair was on fire and thus loved the clios. However now i'm a bit older and realise the roads aren't my own private race track the car i would buy again without hesitation is the Focus ST. IMO it is happiest 7-8 tenths and probably a bit of a bruiser for track days but the torque and noise, that made me grin everyday................. :-)

Edited by waterwonder on Wednesday 20th July 08:51