E36 328 Problem........again!

[pringle1988]

Hello all,

Ive had so many problems with the above car its unbelievable. I ran it over the winter when a number of things started to go wrong so I took it off the road and used another car.
I have slowly fixed these issues which were snapped springs and dodgy power steering pump. as the car had been stood a while I decided to change the coolant before putting it back on the road.
This is where the problems have started. I ran the car up to temperature and all seemed fine, I then went to pull away and the temperature needle shoots straight near to the red. So I turned the engine off.
Looking in the engine bay no water is escaping from anywhere and all seems fine, but there is a sound as if bubbles are moving around in the engine block / head. Not a boiling sound though.
Could this be caused by an airlock? I do have a feeling the thermostat is stuck as no coolant is in the hoses and will check this tommorow.
Im just looking for advice really as I ran it in winter no problems unless this was due to the colder outside temps.

Thanks

[swansea v6]

definitely sounds like an airlock, did you bleed the system when you changed the coolant??

[pringle1988]

I tried doing it as the haynes manual describes by undoing the bleed screw, however it states that water will come out once all air has come out but all I get is steam.
Any other tips for filling / bleeding the system? I know it shouldnt be a hard job but im having trouble

[chrisr29]

Sounds like a stuck thermostat. Is the rad getting hot?

Easy to test - remove thermostat and stick it in some boiling water and see if it opens.

[Frances The Mute]

I've never had an issue bleeding the M52 coolant system. However, there are a few areas that should be adhered to.

Don't just dump the water in. This can cause an airlock in itself. Just fill slowly with water until the system is full and is bled properly, then add the coolant. I'd flush the whole system through first before trying to bleed it again.

Put the heaters on full heat but a low fan setting. Start the car with the bleed screw partially open. You'll get plenty of bubbles which may take some time to escape so you may need to repeat the procedure.

Some people recommend undoing the top hose to the rad and filling it through there so it's your call on that one.

When the bubbles have stopped, close the screw and go for a drive. Don't use high revs and stay close to home incase you have to stop. If the heaters go cold at any point, there's still air in the system.

Bleeding these is a doddle. You should try it on the M30 engines.

[pringle1988]

Thanks for the replies.
Im going to test the thermostat tommorow, but the rad isnt getting hot at all. The top hose is but the bottom one isnt really.
Theres quite a bit of pressure in the hoses too.
I did fill the water bottle up quite fast so probably did get air in there.
Is it worth checking the water pump whilst im down there as ive heard the impellers are prone to breaking with them being plastic?

[Frances The Mute]

For the cost of a pump and stat (around £60), it's certainly worth doing if you've no proof of it being done recently. These engines really don't like getting hot.
Earlier pumps has plastic impellers which did disintegrate over time.

Be careful with the stat housing. It's plastic so is easily broken when refitted if you're a touch over zealous with the spanner/socket. You can get metal housings from BM that were on the 325 if you're a bit of a slag and feel like upgrading.

[pringle1988]

Thanks for the replies people.
Ive replaced the thermostat and the water pump was fine. I drained all coolant and filled it up again. This time I get hot air from the blowers and no overheating

I have another problem now though. The car has been stood a while and the ABS light is on. Could this be down to rust on the discs, pads etc? The ASC (traction control) light is also on, on the dashboard, and I cant get it to go out so im guessing the traction control is stuck off?

Thanks again

[Frances The Mute]

Sounds like a sensor has gone open circuit if they're both on.

[Tinod]

pringle1988 said:

Thanks for the replies people.
Ive replaced the thermostat and the water pump was fine. I drained all coolant and filled it up again. This time I get hot air from the blowers and no overheating

I have another problem now though. The car has been stood a while and the ABS light is on. Could this be down to rust on the discs, pads etc? The ASC (traction control) light is also on, on the dashboard, and I cant get it to go out so im guessing the traction control is stuck off?

Thanks again

Mine has this issue (ABS/Traction control lights on and TC always off) I am replacing the pads this weekend as the rears are worn also revs have been limited to approx 5,500rpm this thread helped out http://www.driftworks.com/forum/technical/140819-5... though I have yet to go down the route as tackling the pads first then will run a diagnostics to see what else is up with it.

[4rephill]

pringle1988 said:

Thanks for the replies people.
Ive replaced the thermostat and the water pump was fine. I drained all coolant and filled it up again. This time I get hot air from the blowers and no overheating

I have another problem now though. The car has been stood a while and the ABS light is on. Could this be down to rust on the discs, pads etc? The ASC (traction control) light is also on, on the dashboard, and I cant get it to go out so im guessing the traction control is stuck off?

Thanks again

Frances The Mute said:

Sounds like a sensor has gone open circuit if they're both on.

+1 . The ABS and the traction control lights being on at the same time is more often than not a sign that the rear wheel sensor is either dirty or broken (this is a very common problem on the E36!).

[jamiepeers]

Changing the coolant is easy if you follow this guide. Take no notice about putting the front up in the air or all that bks. Do you really think BMW jack your car up at the front when refilling an engine full of coolant???? Its all about getting the air in the system out as fast as you are putting coolant in. This way you won't get an air lock.

By filling through the radiator you will most likely get an air lock in the system. So here's what to do.

There's only one sure fire way to fill an M50 (and M52) system and that is through the top radiator hose with the ignition on and the heater set to hot. The worst way is to try and fill it via the radiator cap, a guaranteed way of creating a massive air lock.

Undo the top rad hose at the radiator end and pull it off the rad. Slacken the engine end of the hose and turn it through 90 degrees so it points upwards, retighten the hose clip. Take the bleed screw out of the rad but leave the rad cap on. Pour the coolant in through the top hose slowly, a pint at a time. By the time the water level is steady in the top hose you should also start to see it dribbling from the top rad hose elbow. The engine and radiator are now full, no air locks. Refit the top hose, wash all the spilt coolant off with clean water and fire the engine up. Top up the coolant in the expansion bottle and refit the bleed screw.

Now take it for an 'enthusiastic' run up the road. Use plenty of revs. As soon as the heater starts to pump out warm air, it's bled. Run it back home, crack open the bleed screw to let the last small pocket of air out and it's done. If the heater is stiff iffy, take the plastic cover off the heater valve unit (passenger side rear corner) and give the unit a sharp smack with a small hammer to free the sticky valves.

Obviously its been done now, but for anyone else searching the forum and wondering how to do it, this is by far the easiest method.

Edited by jamiepeers on Friday 29th July 17:56

[pringle1988]

Afternoon all, I managed to sort out the airlock problem by constantly getting it to temp and loosening the bleed screw and repeating for what seemed like 100 times.

The problem with the abs and traction control light turned out to be the front passenger side wheel sensor. Hope this helps anybody with similar problems.

I have a query now however, I recently serviced the car and now every time I start the car from cold (say longer than 6 hours of standing) I get a bit of rattle from the engine (about 2 seconds) and it takes about 5 - 7 seconds for the oil light to go out. Ive had a google and it does seem to vary among people for how long it takes to go out. It also does mention that sometimes servicing the car without replacing both O-rings causes oil to drain out of the filter housing when standing and takes longer to build pressure. I can remember replacing the big O-ring but not the smaller one. Most people seem to say it is fine but im just wanting some clarification if it is or not and some advice really.

Thanks

[StuB]

pringle1988 said:

Afternoon all, I managed to sort out the airlock problem by constantly getting it to temp and loosening the bleed screw and repeating for what seemed like 100 times.

The problem with the abs and traction control light turned out to be the front passenger side wheel sensor. Hope this helps anybody with similar problems.

I have a query now however, I recently serviced the car and now every time I start the car from cold (say longer than 6 hours of standing) I get a bit of rattle from the engine (about 2 seconds) and it takes about 5 - 7 seconds for the oil light to go out. Ive had a google and it does seem to vary among people for how long it takes to go out. It also does mention that sometimes servicing the car without replacing both O-rings causes oil to drain out of the filter housing when standing and takes longer to build pressure. I can remember replacing the big O-ring but not the smaller one. Most people seem to say it is fine but im just wanting some clarification if it is or not and some advice really.

Thanks

I had a high mileage 328 and I think the hydraulic tappet adjusters take a moment or two to sort themselves out. I take it it's quiet and smooth after this initial 1-2 second 'rattle'?

The oil light sounds more of a concern, so I'd recommend you get the pressure checked. What grade oil is in the car?

[Dwmotorworks]

Hi all,

Bleeding is so simple with this engine,
1 . ignition on, heater on hot
2. Fill till you see plenty water/coolant coming from both bleed screws
3. Put the cap on and start it up ..

Simple..

Make sure your heaters blow hot air,

Also make sure before you start that the car isn't nose down, ie on a level surface or with the front end higher than the rear..

Don't try and complicate matters by filling through hoses etc etc, believe me the Germans are far cleverer than to design a cooling system in that way..

Traction light on it's own= cable snapped or not attached to restricted throttle..

Abs light and traction light = in most cases a sensor or pick up on any of the wheels ( not just the rear )

As for your rattle on starting, re do you oil filter and make sure you change all the o rings, if it still persists then you most definately have an oil pressure issue ( very rare )

Hope this helps ( 10 years bmw trained techie )

[pringle1988]

Yeah it becomes quiet and smooth, the mileage on the car is 130,000.

I cant remember if the car has done this for a while but I think il take it to be pressure tested to be safe.
The grade of oil is 10 40w semi synthetic.

Dwmotorworks - If this was the case would I start getting problems whilst the engine was running?

Thanks for the reply

Edited by pringle1988 on Saturday 26th November 19:24

[Tielst]

Hi, I have the same ABS/TC light on problem too. Can you just clean the sensors or do they have to be replaced?

Cheers, T.

[pringle1988]

Tielst said:

Hi, I have the same ABS/TC light on problem too. Can you just clean the sensors or do they have to be replaced?

Cheers, T.

hello, it is possible to clean the sensors but I'm sure you've got to take them out to do it correctly. Problem being they are stuck in there so tight I had to smash it up to get it out.
Also the sensor which has gone faulty could be on any of the 4 wheels, so if you can get access to a fault reader it will be useful. Failing that you can do it with a multimeter and check for low readings but I'm not sure how to do it this way.

[Dwmotorworks]

pringle1988 said:

Yeah it becomes quiet and smooth, the mileage on the car is 130,000.

I cant remember if the car has done this for a while but I think il take it to be pressure tested to be safe.
The grade of oil is 10 40w semi synthetic.

Dwmotorworks - If this was the case would I start getting problems whilst the engine was running?

Thanks for the reply

Edited by pringle1988 on Saturday 26th November 19:24

The noise/lack of oil pressure is only at initial start up after a period of time ( the time it takes for the oil to drain from the oil filter housing) therefore the answer to your question is no ..

However, if it's left like this for to long then damage can eventually occur at the timing chain guides which can break up due to the chain "flapping around" this then can in worste case lead to the bits of plastic guides blocking the oil pump pick up .. Causing engine failure (quite rare on this engine)

Also the lack of oil pressure at start up will over time cause premature wear of cam bearings, crank mains and big ends etc etc ...

[Dwmotorworks]

Tielst said:

Hi, I have the same ABS/TC light on problem too. Can you just clean the sensors or do they have to be replaced?

Cheers, T.

Hi,

Cleaning the sensors in most cases will not work..
The sensors are of the hall effect type which is based upon a small magnetic field of which metal is passed through this results In a digital signal received by the abs control unit..

The only thing that can effect this signal is metal, so cleaning off dust grease etc etc won't have any effect..

The pick up ring mounted on the hub (front) or drive shaft(rear) can become corroded which eventually leads to the distance between the magnetic field and its metal pick becoming to great for a good signal ( symptoms of this are a mysteriously vibrating brake pedal normally at low speeds and eventually the warning lights)

Testing the sensors with an ohms meter is quite simple, measure across the connectors in the wheel housings , expect a high resistance normally possibly in k ohms and look for the one that's open circuit ..

Or get the fault codes read this saves you getting dirty ..