Double Garage Lighting
Discussion
Hello
I really need some advice from a Pistonheader who has electrical knowledge....???
I am having a large double garage built at the bottom of our garden, 60 foot from the back of the house.
Before work commenced the buiders knocked down an old shed but retained the armoured electic cable running down the garden which supplied power to the shed.
I have been debating what lights to have in the garage (7m x 6m) but have decided to go with the architects original plan and fit 8 twin anti-corrosive 6ft flurocent tubes. The garage will be used as a workshop so needs to be brilliantly lit.
When I have discussed this with the builder he is adamant that there is some kind of 'maximum' wattage that you are allowed to use with an armoured cable. If we go over this wattage the lights will trip very often.
Yesterday I called an electrican I know through work and he said the opposite; you can run pretty much what ever you like with no problems. This electrician is a true professional and would not do anything other than strictly by the book
Surely it is the electrician who should know this stuff?
I am baffled and worried why the builder is saying otherwise; is he saying this as he is not going to finish the job propery/safely?
I need it finished propely and professionaly and do not want it tripping every five minutes after the builder has gone.
Any advice is massively appreciated
Thank you
I really need some advice from a Pistonheader who has electrical knowledge....???
I am having a large double garage built at the bottom of our garden, 60 foot from the back of the house.
Before work commenced the buiders knocked down an old shed but retained the armoured electic cable running down the garden which supplied power to the shed.
I have been debating what lights to have in the garage (7m x 6m) but have decided to go with the architects original plan and fit 8 twin anti-corrosive 6ft flurocent tubes. The garage will be used as a workshop so needs to be brilliantly lit.
When I have discussed this with the builder he is adamant that there is some kind of 'maximum' wattage that you are allowed to use with an armoured cable. If we go over this wattage the lights will trip very often.
Yesterday I called an electrican I know through work and he said the opposite; you can run pretty much what ever you like with no problems. This electrician is a true professional and would not do anything other than strictly by the book
Surely it is the electrician who should know this stuff?
I am baffled and worried why the builder is saying otherwise; is he saying this as he is not going to finish the job propery/safely?
I need it finished propely and professionaly and do not want it tripping every five minutes after the builder has gone.
Any advice is massively appreciated
Thank you
Depends on size of cable really
as a general rule you take amps times volts to find maximum wattage
ie 13Amp times 240 volts = 3120watts
your average 6ft flouro tube runs at 70 watts so you could run 44 6ft flouro tubes before having problems!
BUT if you want to run power off the same cable you might have probelms if running large tools etc, friend has a large air compressor that was forever tripping power to the garage until he ran that on another supply.
I would say sparky knows his stuff and bulders just wants to install new larger cable!!
What are you planning to run in the workshop
What size is the existing cable?
as a general rule you take amps times volts to find maximum wattage
ie 13Amp times 240 volts = 3120watts
your average 6ft flouro tube runs at 70 watts so you could run 44 6ft flouro tubes before having problems!
BUT if you want to run power off the same cable you might have probelms if running large tools etc, friend has a large air compressor that was forever tripping power to the garage until he ran that on another supply.
I would say sparky knows his stuff and bulders just wants to install new larger cable!!
What are you planning to run in the workshop
What size is the existing cable?
shimmey69 said:
Depends on size of cable really
as a general rule you take amps times volts to find maximum wattage
ie 13Amp times 240 volts = 3120watts
your average 6ft flouro tube runs at 70 watts so you could run 44 6ft flouro tubes before having problems!
BUT if you want to run power off the same cable you might have probelms if running large tools etc, friend has a large air compressor that was forever tripping power to the garage until he ran that on another supply.
I would say sparky knows his stuff and bulders just wants to install new larger cable!!
What are you planning to run in the workshop
What size is the existing cable?
Hias a general rule you take amps times volts to find maximum wattage
ie 13Amp times 240 volts = 3120watts
your average 6ft flouro tube runs at 70 watts so you could run 44 6ft flouro tubes before having problems!
BUT if you want to run power off the same cable you might have probelms if running large tools etc, friend has a large air compressor that was forever tripping power to the garage until he ran that on another supply.
I would say sparky knows his stuff and bulders just wants to install new larger cable!!
What are you planning to run in the workshop
What size is the existing cable?
Many thanks for your reply!
At least you wrote it in a language that I understand.
I dont know the exact size of the cable; I just tried having a look but its a bit dark. All I can say is the cable feels very heavy duty.
The builder will fit a distribution board and there will be 2 circuits, one for the lighting and one for the sockets.
I will be occocasionally be running a fair sized air compressor like your friend. If this causes problems I could run an extension lead from the house.
The builders have quoted for the full build so I know they do not want to fit extra cable.
You were correct that the lights I am going to order are 70 watts each.
Cheers
no worries try to explain things as best i can.
what i was meaning was the builder might want to charge extra for replacing cable with heavier duty one!
with armoured cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured) it will feel a lot more heavy duty than say an extension lead as it wrapped in a steel wire protection.
Once you know what size the cable is you can figure out your maximum wattage etc and will know if the cable is strong enough.
Are you planning on working on the underside of cars etc in this garage?? as if you are then a thing my friend did was mount lights on the ceiling as normal, then had flouro tubes mounted at waist level on the walls ideal for when doing anything in the wheel arches and also had a pair of twin tubes on normal flex extension leads so he could have them lying either side of him whilst he was lying on the floor doing work on the underside!
Usually you will find your socket ring will be using a lot more than the lighting ring. what wattage is your compressor??? my friends is a 150-200 litre believe.
also are you looking to heat it in winter??? as an large heater can put a standard socket to its limit!!
what i was meaning was the builder might want to charge extra for replacing cable with heavier duty one!
with armoured cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured) it will feel a lot more heavy duty than say an extension lead as it wrapped in a steel wire protection.
Once you know what size the cable is you can figure out your maximum wattage etc and will know if the cable is strong enough.
Are you planning on working on the underside of cars etc in this garage?? as if you are then a thing my friend did was mount lights on the ceiling as normal, then had flouro tubes mounted at waist level on the walls ideal for when doing anything in the wheel arches and also had a pair of twin tubes on normal flex extension leads so he could have them lying either side of him whilst he was lying on the floor doing work on the underside!
Usually you will find your socket ring will be using a lot more than the lighting ring. what wattage is your compressor??? my friends is a 150-200 litre believe.
also are you looking to heat it in winter??? as an large heater can put a standard socket to its limit!!
shimmey69 said:
no worries try to explain things as best i can.
what i was meaning was the builder might want to charge extra for replacing cable with heavier duty one!
with armoured cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured) it will feel a lot more heavy duty than say an extension lead as it wrapped in a steel wire protection.
Once you know what size the cable is you can figure out your maximum wattage etc and will know if the cable is strong enough.
Are you planning on working on the underside of cars etc in this garage?? as if you are then a thing my friend did was mount lights on the ceiling as normal, then had flouro tubes mounted at waist level on the walls ideal for when doing anything in the wheel arches and also had a pair of twin tubes on normal flex extension leads so he could have them lying either side of him whilst he was lying on the floor doing work on the underside!
Usually you will find your socket ring will be using a lot more than the lighting ring. what wattage is your compressor??? my friends is a 150-200 litre believe.
also are you looking to heat it in winter??? as an large heater can put a standard socket to its limit!!
Not sure what wattage the compressor is but it is a 150 litre tank.what i was meaning was the builder might want to charge extra for replacing cable with heavier duty one!
with armoured cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured) it will feel a lot more heavy duty than say an extension lead as it wrapped in a steel wire protection.
Once you know what size the cable is you can figure out your maximum wattage etc and will know if the cable is strong enough.
Are you planning on working on the underside of cars etc in this garage?? as if you are then a thing my friend did was mount lights on the ceiling as normal, then had flouro tubes mounted at waist level on the walls ideal for when doing anything in the wheel arches and also had a pair of twin tubes on normal flex extension leads so he could have them lying either side of him whilst he was lying on the floor doing work on the underside!
Usually you will find your socket ring will be using a lot more than the lighting ring. what wattage is your compressor??? my friends is a 150-200 litre believe.
also are you looking to heat it in winter??? as an large heater can put a standard socket to its limit!!
I will try and find out what amp the cable is tomorrow, will it actaully say on the cable?
Cheers again
TROOPER88 said:
Not sure what wattage the compressor is but it is a 150 litre tank.
I will try and find out what amp the cable is tomorrow, will it actaully say on the cable?
Cheers again
if it a 150 litre then defo see what the wattage is as if you are using as a workshop, could be worth running a 16mm2 SWA from your house main supply to the workshop, then having a mini Fuseboard in the workshop, so you can have a mains plug socket ring, a lighting ring, a compressor hooked to it own ring, plus a couple of spares incase you want to do heating etc!!I will try and find out what amp the cable is tomorrow, will it actaully say on the cable?
Cheers again
it might say on the outer cable if not take a photo of the end with a pound coin or tape measure accross it.
TROOPER88 said:
VX Foxy said:
Why have you chosen anticorrosive fittings? Also, 6' 70W is very old hat. I'd suggest looking at 2x49W T5 battens.
HiWhy not anti corrosive?
The next bit went straight over my head I am afraid!!
2 x49W battens??
Cheers
T5 is the new flouro fitting, bit like xenon is the new halgen in car head lights!
t5 are very good, but some poeple who have been used to working under 6-8ft flouro tubes dont like the way that t5 distribute light, all a personal thing really but t5 fitting are a lot thinner in diameter and are also a lot shorter in length but can give out more light! so depends on what your used to and what floats ya boat, might be worth looking into!
T8 means 8/8ths of an inch or 25mm diameter tubes. T5 are 5/8th of an inch, 16mm diameter tubes.
T5 tubes ONLY run on High frequency control gear - as opposed to wound electromagnetic switch-start gear (I.E. with a starter) that your probably used to seeing with T8 and T12 fittings.
For a garage, really you want to look at something IP Rated and 'tough', so what has been called here an 'anti corrosive' batten will fit the fill. A sealed batten avoids any issued with broken lamps etc, and the maintenance will be easier - you should give them a wipe down every so often ( How many of you in your garage have ancient fluorescent lamps with a thick coating of dust and dead flies encrusted onto them!) And yes - in a T5 format, typically 2X49W as suggested, will be much more modern and a fair chunk more efficient than T8, particularly switch-start driven T8.
Also in a Garage a High frequency fitting is much safer and avoids any nasty flicker effects when using any machinery etc.
And if you want my best advice - for good quality lighting - make sure you paint your new garage walls white! The difference between grey bare block work, and a few coats of white emulsion to seal in the dust, will make a Massive difference to the perceived brightness. Trust me, I've been there!
T5 tubes ONLY run on High frequency control gear - as opposed to wound electromagnetic switch-start gear (I.E. with a starter) that your probably used to seeing with T8 and T12 fittings.
For a garage, really you want to look at something IP Rated and 'tough', so what has been called here an 'anti corrosive' batten will fit the fill. A sealed batten avoids any issued with broken lamps etc, and the maintenance will be easier - you should give them a wipe down every so often ( How many of you in your garage have ancient fluorescent lamps with a thick coating of dust and dead flies encrusted onto them!) And yes - in a T5 format, typically 2X49W as suggested, will be much more modern and a fair chunk more efficient than T8, particularly switch-start driven T8.
Also in a Garage a High frequency fitting is much safer and avoids any nasty flicker effects when using any machinery etc.
And if you want my best advice - for good quality lighting - make sure you paint your new garage walls white! The difference between grey bare block work, and a few coats of white emulsion to seal in the dust, will make a Massive difference to the perceived brightness. Trust me, I've been there!
Hi
The T5 49w def sound like a great idea if they are smaller in size and give out more light than the normal tubes.
Ok, I have just been to have a look at the cable/s and have taken 2 pictures but Pistonheads picture uploader is not working!! It says there is no picture to upload.... I will try again on a new posting.
What I find very strange is that originally there was a grey armoured cable running down the length of the garden behind a fence. It was very safe and the architect saw the cable and commented what good quality it was (and how expensive it is to buy). It was clearly specified in the plan that this was the cable to be used for the garage. It was put in by the previous owners of the house to supply an outside office and a shed with lighting and electricity.
I have just looked and the cable from behind the fence has gone. There is a black think power lead running under the ground that enters the garage and comes out of the ground where the office used to be. They dug a trench and put this cable in along with the water supply pipe (for a parts washer) and few weeks ago.
Why would the builder not have used the armoured cable??
I find this very strange.
The exact wording from the plan is:
Extend the existing armoured cable to the garage and fit a new distribution board and undertake electrical services to the garage in strict accordance with the IEE regulations.
It then goes on to say: fit 8 double tubes, 2 external hologen lighs and 8 double power sockets etc etc
Any advice??
Thank you
The T5 49w def sound like a great idea if they are smaller in size and give out more light than the normal tubes.
Ok, I have just been to have a look at the cable/s and have taken 2 pictures but Pistonheads picture uploader is not working!! It says there is no picture to upload.... I will try again on a new posting.
What I find very strange is that originally there was a grey armoured cable running down the length of the garden behind a fence. It was very safe and the architect saw the cable and commented what good quality it was (and how expensive it is to buy). It was clearly specified in the plan that this was the cable to be used for the garage. It was put in by the previous owners of the house to supply an outside office and a shed with lighting and electricity.
I have just looked and the cable from behind the fence has gone. There is a black think power lead running under the ground that enters the garage and comes out of the ground where the office used to be. They dug a trench and put this cable in along with the water supply pipe (for a parts washer) and few weeks ago.
Why would the builder not have used the armoured cable??
I find this very strange.
The exact wording from the plan is:
Extend the existing armoured cable to the garage and fit a new distribution board and undertake electrical services to the garage in strict accordance with the IEE regulations.
It then goes on to say: fit 8 double tubes, 2 external hologen lighs and 8 double power sockets etc etc
Any advice??
Thank you
Ganglandboss said:
I do not understand why the architect has said extend the existing armoured cable. Has he done any design checks as to whether the existing cable is adequately sized?
To be honest I dont know,Edited by Ganglandboss on Wednesday 27th July 09:21
The architect looked at the cable and knew that the garage was going to be used as a workshop.
TROOPER88 said:
Original armoured cable coming out of the ground where the previous owners had an outdoor office
Which cable are you saying is armoured? I can see:- Two blue water (I think) pipes
- A conduit with two pieces of twin and earth
- A conduit containing comms cables
- Some Hep2O water pipe
- A grey pipe or cable (goes straight through picture - ends not shown)
TROOPER88 said:
New power lead that comes from the garage and in the new trench up the garden
Can you find out what size the new cable is? It is difficult to tell from the picture but it looks like a 2.5 mm2, which will not be big enough.Also, do you know the wattage of the halogen lights?
Ganglandboss said:
Can you find out what size the new cable is? It is difficult to tell from the picture but it looks like a 2.5 mm2, which will not be big enough.
Also, do you know the wattage of the halogen lights?
HiAlso, do you know the wattage of the halogen lights?
I thought that the grey cables with the black insulation tape on the end was the armoured cable but asyou can tell I have zero knowledge of electrics.
Do I measure the circumfrence of the new cable they have installed or the width?
I am unsure of the wattage of the outside lighting but the interior lights will be 70 watts x 8 = 560 watts
Thanks Paul
Cheers
TROOPER88 said:
Hi
I thought that the grey cables with the black insulation tape on the end was the armoured cable but asyou can tell I have zero knowledge of electrics.
Do I measure the circumfrence of the new cable they have installed or the width?
I am unsure of the wattage of the outside lighting but the interior lights will be 70 watts x 8 = 560 watts
Thanks Paul
Cheers
The grey cables are definitely not SWA. If you can tell me the total width (i.e. the diameter of the cable), that will give me an idea. Are there any markings on the outer sheath?I thought that the grey cables with the black insulation tape on the end was the armoured cable but asyou can tell I have zero knowledge of electrics.
Do I measure the circumfrence of the new cable they have installed or the width?
I am unsure of the wattage of the outside lighting but the interior lights will be 70 watts x 8 = 560 watts
Thanks Paul
Cheers
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