Discussion
I've noticed that whenever a thread on here gets to talking about MLMs, someone will quickly jump in and say "ooh, the French/Belgians/Dutch/insert European nation here don't do it. It's only British drivers who do it".
Having spent 80-odd miles on a 3 lane French motorway this morning, I can now categorically confirm that this is complete and utter b
ks.
The only reason they don't do it is because they don't usually have a middle lane to moron in. The second they do, they're just as bad. Except the Belgians, who are worse, because they actually tailgate in the middle lane when the overtaking lane is empty.
Having spent 80-odd miles on a 3 lane French motorway this morning, I can now categorically confirm that this is complete and utter b
ks. The only reason they don't do it is because they don't usually have a middle lane to moron in. The second they do, they're just as bad. Except the Belgians, who are worse, because they actually tailgate in the middle lane when the overtaking lane is empty.
I spent what seemed like most of last month driving in Belgium and Germany, as well as a bit of France. The Belgians and Germans seemed fine, whereas there were some complete idiots in the south of France...
Other times they have been a lot worse than us though. Think I got mostly lucky.
Other times they have been a lot worse than us though. Think I got mostly lucky.
Can't agree with this. I've done quite a few miles in France over the past year and I don't think the issue is as big as you've said. What I have found is that any F-MLM tends to have some sort of awareness (which UK MLMs on the whole, do not). It's a sweeping statement I know.
The French do get out the way on the whole with a polite flash is you're making good progress etc etc.
The French do get out the way on the whole with a polite flash is you're making good progress etc etc.
There are definitely motorists in Britain who observe lane discipline.
One day, I hope to observe one.
However, given that every vehicle is now a TDI, it may benefit theorists of the same contention to develop a fortitude of patience not dissimilar to that of Tim Dinsdale, long time staker-outer of Nessie.
From what I recall, his skeleton is still perched by Urqhuart with binos grimly in clasp.
One day, I hope to observe one.
However, given that every vehicle is now a TDI, it may benefit theorists of the same contention to develop a fortitude of patience not dissimilar to that of Tim Dinsdale, long time staker-outer of Nessie.
From what I recall, his skeleton is still perched by Urqhuart with binos grimly in clasp.
Edited by derestrictor on Saturday 30th July 16:53
BMW535i your thread is here 
The other popular "grass is greener" thread regards Yanks overtaking in any lane. That'll explain why they have three times the KSI figures we have in this country then.
bmw535i said:
I completely agree, but quite honestly - you are wasting your time trying to get through to some people. It has to be said the standard of driving in the UK is appalling compared to most European countries. Try lane hogging in Germany - they really will not tolerate it
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=154&t=1014653&mid=118359&nmt=Middle+lane+hoggersThe other popular "grass is greener" thread regards Yanks overtaking in any lane. That'll explain why they have three times the KSI figures we have in this country then.
Kermit power said:
I've noticed that whenever a thread on here gets to talking about MLMs, someone will quickly jump in and say "ooh, the French/Belgians/Dutch/insert European nation here don't do it. It's only British drivers who do it".
Having spent 80-odd miles on a 3 lane French motorway this morning, I can now categorically confirm that this is complete and utter bks.
I wouldn't regard 80 miles as enough to form aHaving spent 80-odd miles on a 3 lane French motorway this morning, I can now categorically confirm that this is complete and utter b
ks. complete opinion of a whole country.
Suggest return when you've done 10,000 miles.
For the record, I find the French vastly superior to the Brits
at lane discipline.
The Black Flash said:
Yup. France only seems better because the roads have less traffic density. Try near a big town during rush hour and the UK suddenly seems a lot better.
This guy has hit the nail on the head, I live 15 min from the French border in Italy and my job takes me between La Spezia (Italy) and La Ciotat (France) approx 2500kms a month. The lane discipline can be shocking, sometimes I wish I had a dash cam just so I could replay what I just saw, as some of the lane changing and barging maneuvers are beyond belief.
I quite often will come across small old Citroens and Fiats in the centre lane doing half the speed limit, and I also come across enormous German machines doing one and a half times the limit in the outside lanes therefore overtaking whilst travelling at the limit has its challenges.
What does surprise me is how bad the Swiss plated cars are at driving down here, its as if the whole thing is alien to them, I have never driven is Switzerland, but i'm guessing its predictable as opposed to spontaneous.
Having just completed >2000miles across France and Italy I'd say:
- French are very good on DCs. Will always move back to lane 1 after overtaking.
- MLMs do exist on 3 lane motorways, not to the extent that they do in the UK but certainly they are not uncommon. As mentioned, more so when the roads are busy (Paris ring road appears to be lawless).
- Far fewer Lane3Ms. As with the DCs, those overtaking in Lane 3 will move back across. There none of the '68mph in Lane 3 club because that's the law' club that exists in the UK.
- Similar situation as above in Italy. Owing to the minimum speed limits, Lane 1 really is seen as a truck only lane.
French/Italians are much much more keen to overtake on SC roads. You certainly don't get any of the crazy flashing lights and hand gestures you get in the UK post overtake.
- French are very good on DCs. Will always move back to lane 1 after overtaking.
- MLMs do exist on 3 lane motorways, not to the extent that they do in the UK but certainly they are not uncommon. As mentioned, more so when the roads are busy (Paris ring road appears to be lawless).
- Far fewer Lane3Ms. As with the DCs, those overtaking in Lane 3 will move back across. There none of the '68mph in Lane 3 club because that's the law' club that exists in the UK.
- Similar situation as above in Italy. Owing to the minimum speed limits, Lane 1 really is seen as a truck only lane.
French/Italians are much much more keen to overtake on SC roads. You certainly don't get any of the crazy flashing lights and hand gestures you get in the UK post overtake.
Having just come back from a 3000 mile road trip round Europe I would have to disagree with the OP. I found that in general, their lane discipline is far superior to ours (obviously with exceptions). There were many other dodgy driving problems they do have though, I saw many drivers that appeared to be of the opinion that one should drive down the motorway perfectly straddling the white lines rather than driving between them. Also, in Italy, indicators are never used at all except when performing an illegal and dangerous maneuver, and the french are similar though not as bad.
dcb said:
I wouldn't regard 80 miles as enough to form a
complete opinion of a whole country.
Suggest return when you've done 10,000 miles.
For the record, I find the French vastly superior to the Brits
at lane discipline.
I've easily done that in France. Lived there for 3 years, have been back pretty constantly on business for the last 15 years, and also do 1,000+ miles going on holiday there most years. complete opinion of a whole country.
Suggest return when you've done 10,000 miles.
For the record, I find the French vastly superior to the Brits
at lane discipline.
This doesn't alter the fact that the overwhelming majority of the motorway miles I've done in France, other than the perpetual carpark between Roissy and the Peripherique have been on two lane motorways where MLMs cannot exist.
Yes, the French have excellent lane discipline on two lanes, but they don't on three.
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