Discussion
I have been following this forum for the last couple of months and simply cannot come to any other conclusion then that there is the police/magistrates on one side and then on the other side is the public.
I have lost all respect for the police and the law, even though I am sure some members of the police force are not bad they are outweighed by the bad, the case of the 71 yr old having his licence taken from him is just another example of the police acting like complete tossers and the magistrates acting like members of the gestapo.
I have always prided myself on being a straight law abiding citizen but now feel that one error of judgement might have over the top consequences.
Everyday there is examples in all of the newspapers of high ranking police officers being let off for crimes we would be heavily punished, I now feel I have no civic or moral responsiblity to help the police in anyway so as far as I am concerned they are on their own.
I have lost all respect for the police and the law, even though I am sure some members of the police force are not bad they are outweighed by the bad, the case of the 71 yr old having his licence taken from him is just another example of the police acting like complete tossers and the magistrates acting like members of the gestapo.
I have always prided myself on being a straight law abiding citizen but now feel that one error of judgement might have over the top consequences.
Everyday there is examples in all of the newspapers of high ranking police officers being let off for crimes we would be heavily punished, I now feel I have no civic or moral responsiblity to help the police in anyway so as far as I am concerned they are on their own.
Have to take exception with you here, bletch. Ask just about any BiB what they think about Magistrates, and their reply wouldn't be postable.
I accept that there are a mninority of our colleagues who do the rest of us, and the public at large, a disservice. Trouble is, traffic departments are seen as an easy reduction, replaced by cameras.
If you saw a PC scrapping with (for argument's sake) an obviously pissed driver, would you really just look the other way and keep on going?
I accept that there are a mninority of our colleagues who do the rest of us, and the public at large, a disservice. Trouble is, traffic departments are seen as an easy reduction, replaced by cameras.
If you saw a PC scrapping with (for argument's sake) an obviously pissed driver, would you really just look the other way and keep on going?
WMHV70 said:I very much regret to say that I probably would these days. There is too much risk of becoming a victim oneself in such circumstances, either through being sued by the drunken driver (for some imagined injury or slight) or by being arrested by the police officer (at the time or later).
If you saw a PC scrapping with (for argument's sake) an obviously pissed driver, would you really just look the other way and keep on going?
It's the stupid rulings handed down by the courts coupled with excessive application of the law by some officers that has turned me away from proffering assistance (and I have waded in in the past).
The last time I assisted a police officer was in 1988 in Cartegna, Colombia ... but he had a Beretta 9mm and I had a Browning Hi-Power and we weren't shooting at each other ... so that was all right
. Streaky
My Ma's a magistrate, and desperately tries to see the "proper view" if you know what I mean..
The trouble is, she sits with on a bench of two other magistrates, who, by and large, seem to be opinionated bigoted fools (IMHO of course!) so it ends up being rather tricky to actually do the right thing.
Recently in Worcester people have been getting gatso'd at 31 and 32 mph in a 30, the majority of these people are not returning NIP's and going to court. Ma is sat there saying that this is ridiculous, 3 points (and a possible ban for the totters) and 60 for that is just silly, but her fellow Mag's, who no doubt have a friend who has a sister who's cousin's brother's sister in law once got driven into in a car park, feel that 30 is fast enough for anyone and so they should be punished... On the flip side, Ma commented the other week that the number of Mag's coming in and admitting that they've just picked up some points is quite amusing!
Having said that, Ma does drive into the Court car park with Radio 1 on as loud as she can bear.. Just to be a bit different you understand.. She’s mad my ma!
The trouble is, she sits with on a bench of two other magistrates, who, by and large, seem to be opinionated bigoted fools (IMHO of course!) so it ends up being rather tricky to actually do the right thing.
Recently in Worcester people have been getting gatso'd at 31 and 32 mph in a 30, the majority of these people are not returning NIP's and going to court. Ma is sat there saying that this is ridiculous, 3 points (and a possible ban for the totters) and 60 for that is just silly, but her fellow Mag's, who no doubt have a friend who has a sister who's cousin's brother's sister in law once got driven into in a car park, feel that 30 is fast enough for anyone and so they should be punished... On the flip side, Ma commented the other week that the number of Mag's coming in and admitting that they've just picked up some points is quite amusing!
Having said that, Ma does drive into the Court car park with Radio 1 on as loud as she can bear.. Just to be a bit different you understand.. She’s mad my ma!
Nah, I dont trust the Met Police at the moment! Asked for directions to Fetter Lane (MPA), knowing damn well that it was on a side street round from New Scotland Yard. BiB then gave me directions that landed me 1 mile away resulting in me being late for an appointment.....
Nah, dont trust em.....
P.S. I asked the BiB OUTSIDE New Scotland Yard too..!!
Nah, dont trust em.....
P.S. I asked the BiB OUTSIDE New Scotland Yard too..!!
WMHV70 said:
Have to take exception with you here, bletch. Ask just about any BiB what they think about Magistrates, and their reply wouldn't be postable.
I accept that there are a mninority of our colleagues who do the rest of us, and the public at large, a disservice. Trouble is, traffic departments are seen as an easy reduction, replaced by cameras.
If you saw a PC scrapping with (for argument's sake) an obviously pissed driver, would you really just look the other way and keep on going?
For the first 35 years of my life I would have got stuck in like any good citizen but not now, and as I said there are good coppers out there but I feel they are in the minority not the majority,
we live in a country where the law is an ASS, most magistrates seem to live in a little world called fucwit and the police are more interested in targets and revenue generation than catching criminals (motorists are the obvious exception as we cough up our fines quickly)
But when I see a 71 yr old man having his licence taken away for a non motoring offence then I know we are up shitcreak without even a raft never mind a paddle and yes I know it was the magistrates who did this but it was the police who nicked him.
>> Edited by bletch on Friday 4th June 11:04
WMHV70 said:
If you saw a PC scrapping with (for argument's sake) an obviously pissed driver, would you really just look the other way and keep on going?
I think most people would like to help, but would be scared to do so. Personally I would probably call 999 and get assistance if on my own, or if with a group of mates would think about wading in
Most people would step back and watch you get a kicking in my experience. This thread has once again, confirmed my view that there are many who will do just that.
As the thread starter stated, "Were on our own"
Unfortunately injuries sustained have shown this. Still, there are a few citizens, thank goodness who will help out.
As the thread starter stated, "Were on our own"
Unfortunately injuries sustained have shown this. Still, there are a few citizens, thank goodness who will help out.
It's nothing to do with you being cops though...I have been constantly amazed by peoples lack of willing to get involved. Everyone is just scared for their own skin. (which is understandable but then the same people will 'talk big' al the time) I was highly amused reading the 'pikeys warning' thread with all these people suggesting things they would do to pikeys if it were them. Yeah, right!
All I can say is that I've got myself invovled in about 5 incidents where I felt someone was being wronged, and I would do it again at the drop of a hat. I'd ALWAYS help the police (unless it was the Hertford copper who screamed abuse at me for 10 minutes once!), and especially if it gave me the chance to meet out justice to some scum with unoffcial police backing! but then I've been doing martial arts since I was eight so it's easy to be 'brave'.....
All I can say is that I've got myself invovled in about 5 incidents where I felt someone was being wronged, and I would do it again at the drop of a hat. I'd ALWAYS help the police (unless it was the Hertford copper who screamed abuse at me for 10 minutes once!), and especially if it gave me the chance to meet out justice to some scum with unoffcial police backing! but then I've been doing martial arts since I was eight so it's easy to be 'brave'.....
When the police so vocally support the use of cameras even when it is proven to be a non blackspot, when they report an old man for warning drivers of a coming danger, when they let off their own senior ranking officers etc
What the hell do they expect???
when we play on an even playing field then I will support the police and give them the respect they would deserve but when the general public is treated with such derision, heavy handedness and one sided justice then I feel i have every right to feel ever so slightly Fcuked Off
What the hell do they expect???
when we play on an even playing field then I will support the police and give them the respect they would deserve but when the general public is treated with such derision, heavy handedness and one sided justice then I feel i have every right to feel ever so slightly Fcuked Off
Any speeding ticket or whatever that I have got has the crest of the police on it. Therefore its the police. I dont care if there are any good / bad / indifferent people in it, if a company pissed you off would you use it again?
Thus follows the usual disclaimer before I get burnt by the officers on here. I am sure in crappy companies there are some good workers but if the company policy and overall view is shit I wont use them anymore.
However I cannot choose not to use the police force so I will just have to use my own silent protest and not help them.
When the senior officers realise the situation then maybe things will change and the public / police relations will improve then EVERYONE is happy again.
Until then I wish you BiB the best of luck, I really do. You have a tough job which is only going to get tougher becuase of the blinded and crappy actions of mags / your superious / Richard Brunstrom etc....
Thus follows the usual disclaimer before I get burnt by the officers on here. I am sure in crappy companies there are some good workers but if the company policy and overall view is shit I wont use them anymore.
However I cannot choose not to use the police force so I will just have to use my own silent protest and not help them.
When the senior officers realise the situation then maybe things will change and the public / police relations will improve then EVERYONE is happy again.
Until then I wish you BiB the best of luck, I really do. You have a tough job which is only going to get tougher becuase of the blinded and crappy actions of mags / your superious / Richard Brunstrom etc....
I would like to think that I would help out someone who was in trouble, in whatever way was appropriate. In the heat of the moment this would take priority.
However, sitting here now, I think about the perpetrator successfully accusing me of:
- wrongful imprisonment
- GBH
- assault
- etc
...and then successfully suing me for damages. And I wonder whether the police who I tried to help would be able to do anything against this?
It is indeed a sad time for Britain when the victim has less protection than the criminal and normal people are stigmatised for 31mph. Sadly the outcome of this is going to be too unpleasant to contemplate. Policing used to be "with consent". It's no longer willing consent, and what happens when it's actively the opposite -- everywhere, not just on sink estates?
However, sitting here now, I think about the perpetrator successfully accusing me of:
- wrongful imprisonment
- GBH
- assault
- etc
...and then successfully suing me for damages. And I wonder whether the police who I tried to help would be able to do anything against this?
It is indeed a sad time for Britain when the victim has less protection than the criminal and normal people are stigmatised for 31mph. Sadly the outcome of this is going to be too unpleasant to contemplate. Policing used to be "with consent". It's no longer willing consent, and what happens when it's actively the opposite -- everywhere, not just on sink estates?
Turning this around somewhat, if you saw a police officer hitting a drunk, would you go to the aid of the drunk?
Overnight I thought about my previous response to Dibble's question and concluded that "it would depend".
If it was one officer against more than one "drunk", I'd very probably assist. If the officer was getting the worst of it, I'd assist.
If it was one on one, I'd offer assistance. If the officer was getting the worst of it, I'd assist.
If I was with friends, we'd very probably assist.
If I was with SWMBO, I'd ask if she minded me assisting.
And, if I still had the Browning ...
There is a difference between sitting at a PC typing a reply, to being "there".
But, and this is a BIG but, if the officer told me to "eff off" (as has happened), I'd walk away; if I was subsequently arrested or subjected to any sort of intimidation by the police, I'd NEVER assist again; if I was subsequently sued by the drunk and got no support from the police - I'd NEVER assist again; if I got no thanks from the officer involved - 'd PROBABLY never assist again.
I am probably like the majority of "Middle Englanders". I was brought up to respect the police and I am a believer in appropriate punishment (I can think of crimes for which the appropriate punishments are flogging, life without parole, and execution).
Sadly, the respect that was inculcated into me as a child has been continually eroded by the actions (that I have witnessed) of some police officers, the pettiness of many laws that the police are required to enforce, many reports of laws being implemented inappropriately by the police, the continual politicisation of the "force", the evident dual standards (and involved duplicity by individuals) that apply in the police and the courts, the stupid application of the "Human Rights Act", the idiocy of much sentencing by the courts, and the adoption of "targets of opportunity" (eg. motorists) to improve crime figures in satisfying governments' lust for performance.
It's not the individual, it's "the system" that's at fault, but the individual police officer gets the blame. It's a shame ... but it's the society we've developed (into), I'm afraid.
Now, where's my coat?
Streaky
Overnight I thought about my previous response to Dibble's question and concluded that "it would depend".
If it was one officer against more than one "drunk", I'd very probably assist. If the officer was getting the worst of it, I'd assist.
If it was one on one, I'd offer assistance. If the officer was getting the worst of it, I'd assist.
If I was with friends, we'd very probably assist.
If I was with SWMBO, I'd ask if she minded me assisting.
And, if I still had the Browning ...
There is a difference between sitting at a PC typing a reply, to being "there".
But, and this is a BIG but, if the officer told me to "eff off" (as has happened), I'd walk away; if I was subsequently arrested or subjected to any sort of intimidation by the police, I'd NEVER assist again; if I was subsequently sued by the drunk and got no support from the police - I'd NEVER assist again; if I got no thanks from the officer involved - 'd PROBABLY never assist again.
I am probably like the majority of "Middle Englanders". I was brought up to respect the police and I am a believer in appropriate punishment (I can think of crimes for which the appropriate punishments are flogging, life without parole, and execution).
Sadly, the respect that was inculcated into me as a child has been continually eroded by the actions (that I have witnessed) of some police officers, the pettiness of many laws that the police are required to enforce, many reports of laws being implemented inappropriately by the police, the continual politicisation of the "force", the evident dual standards (and involved duplicity by individuals) that apply in the police and the courts, the stupid application of the "Human Rights Act", the idiocy of much sentencing by the courts, and the adoption of "targets of opportunity" (eg. motorists) to improve crime figures in satisfying governments' lust for performance.
It's not the individual, it's "the system" that's at fault, but the individual police officer gets the blame. It's a shame ... but it's the society we've developed (into), I'm afraid.
Now, where's my coat?
Streaky
Im so pissed off with many members of the public.
They never seem to obey the Laws, always thinking that they are above it.
They are the first to squeel to the Police when they are Burgled, had their car stolen etc.
When we do catch the villans then the Mags let them off with a 'soft' sentance which does nothing to deter their future conduct.
I hate them!!!
(Just to see what it looked like when the boot was on the other foot
)
They never seem to obey the Laws, always thinking that they are above it.
They are the first to squeel to the Police when they are Burgled, had their car stolen etc.
When we do catch the villans then the Mags let them off with a 'soft' sentance which does nothing to deter their future conduct.
I hate them!!!
(Just to see what it looked like when the boot was on the other foot
)Tonyrec said:
Im so pissed off with many members of the public.
They never seem to obey the Laws, always thinking that they are above it.
They are the first to squeel to the Police when they are Burgled, had their car stolen etc.
When we do catch the villans then the Mags let them off with a 'soft' sentance which does nothing to deter their future conduct.
I hate them!!!
(Just to see what it looked like when the boot was on the other foot
Ah we love you really Tony. Its nothing personal, we know you are just doing your job.
Unfortunately, your
wit bosses, muppet colleagues and 
are turning the publics support away from the likes of you. and whist we are on the subject...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3773171.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3776003.stm
so, exactly how much Police resources were taken up 'raiding' the market and subsequent follow-up investigations?
Was this really such a hennas crime?
Did this fisherman threaten the fabric of society?
Would this have lead to a breakdown of law and order?
With stuff like this hitting the press almost every day of the week, how are WE the general public supposed to view the priorities of the Police?
Then we get the story about Aldershot magistrates banning a pensioner from driving for holding up a placard to stop people speeding?
I have to say I have every sympathy for the rank and file officer, having to work in this politically correct b0ll0cks way, however, is it not about time THEY voiced their views to the powers that be? is that not what the federation is there for?
Just my 2D’s worth…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3773171.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3776003.stm
so, exactly how much Police resources were taken up 'raiding' the market and subsequent follow-up investigations?
Was this really such a hennas crime?
Did this fisherman threaten the fabric of society?
Would this have lead to a breakdown of law and order?
With stuff like this hitting the press almost every day of the week, how are WE the general public supposed to view the priorities of the Police?
Then we get the story about Aldershot magistrates banning a pensioner from driving for holding up a placard to stop people speeding?
I have to say I have every sympathy for the rank and file officer, having to work in this politically correct b0ll0cks way, however, is it not about time THEY voiced their views to the powers that be? is that not what the federation is there for?
Just my 2D’s worth…
bletch said:
When the police so vocally support the use of cameras even when it is proven to be a non blackspot, when they report an old man for warning drivers of a coming danger, when they let off their own senior ranking officers etc
What the hell do they expect???
The Police Management are the ones supporting the use of cameras! This does not include the whole 'Police'.
Let off their senior Managers? What about Stephen Thomas, ACC from GMP who was caught and prosecuted for speeding on the M6 extension toll road?
The Magistrates may have been of a different mind if it could have been proved that the pensioner had a geniune concern for the area he was protecting because he had been holding his board on previous occasions when there was no speed trap in place!
It was apparent that he was there merely to warn drivers to avoid the detection of offences which were prevalent in that area. An area which no doubt had been the subject of many requests for attention by Police from the residents therein
A geniune concern for road safety was not his motive!
bletch said:
when we play on an even playing field then I will support the police and give them the respect they would deserve but when the general public is treated with such derision, heavy handedness and one sided justice then I feel i have every right to feel ever so slightly Fcuked Off
And so you might. However The Police are directed by the Home Office. The Home Office drive policy through which is led by the general opinions of those people that live in this country. Most people want others to slow down when driving motor vehicles. You cannot argue against that as there have even been threads on this forum (including many speed freaks
) who do not want others to speed through their own residential areas. The Home office has responded to that plea by thrusting the present policy of enforcement at Chief Officers. They in turn have no choice but to act on the directions of the Home Office or their jobs are at stake!
So when the 'People' decide that it is alright to drive at "whatever speed I feel safe to drive at in any area I chose", then the policy may change.
The officer who reported the pensioner for holding the board was just doing her job! She detected an offence and reported it.
The definition of a Police Officer is 'A citizen, locally appointed but having authority under the Crown for the prevention and detection of crime, the maintenance of order and prosecution of offenders against the peace
She was unlikely to have had the ability of seeing into the future and the subsequent punishment that would be handed out. It was just another day at work for that officer reporting what she interpreted as an offence.
You say Playing on an even playing field
and you wonder why you feel hard done by! Quite frankly, most Police officers are not under any illusions of how they are perceived by the people that they Police. In most cases the thoughts are probably mutual
especially those that whinge and moan because of things that don't actually fit their own personal agenda 
As DVD said, you get the Policing you deserve and it is likley to get even worse too!
>> Edited by gone on Saturday 5th June 12:57
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