Buying Land for a self-build without planning

[ascayman]

gents your advice would be very much appreciated.

I've found a plot of land i like which for the moment has a bungalow on it, my intension would be to knock it down and build a large(ish) family home.

The plot size is plenty big enough and the plans i have would make it much more in keeping with the rest of the road as the neighbouring properties are all large family homes and this property looks somewhat out of place by comparison.

The trouble is the existing property is for sale without any planning permission and isnt exactly cheap, the bungalow would be effectively useless to me if the planning were to be rejected, unfortunately the vendor is unlikely to stick around whilst i apply and receive planning before buying.

has anyone been in this position? is there anyway i can either fast track an application or find out if what i want to do is expectable prior to committing to buy?

any advise would be gratefully received.

Edited by ascayman on Wednesday 3rd August 16:11

[sinizter]

Do you mean the bungalow has been built without planning permission or that the property is not being sold without planning permission for a larger house ?

If the bungalow has planning permission to be there, then you are just going to have to pay the going rate for the property.

[louiebaby]

Did you see the Grand Designs last year about Bungalow Gobbling?

Essentially keeping the core of the old building, but adding around it. If your plans, even if just sketched out in your head, are in keeping with the area and don't encroach on the land or aspec of others, I would say your chances are good.

Hell of a punt though if you're wrong.

[ascayman]

sinizter said:

Do you mean the bungalow has been built without planning permission or that the property is not being sold without planning permission for a larger house ?

If the bungalow has planning permission to be there, then you are just going to have to pay the going rate for the property.

Apologies for not being clear.

no the bungalow is fine and has been there for 20 years.

I however am only interested in buying the property if i can knock it down and build my own house.

There is no planning permission in place for this and the vendor wont wait whilst i get it.

Im not trying to get a discount on the property, I guess im asking if there is anyway i can find out for sure if ill be granted planning or at least get an indication prior to me purchasing as if i cant there is no point in me buying as im not interested in the bungalow.

[ascayman]

louiebaby said:

Did you see the Grand Designs last year about Bungalow Gobbling?

Essentially keeping the core of the old building, but adding around it. If your plans, even if just sketched out in your head, are in keeping with the area and don't encroach on the land or aspec of others, I would say your chances are good.

Hell of a punt though if you're wrong.

Quite. a £500k punt hence me quite nervous to go forward with a deal without some assurances/indications.

I must have missed that GD but ill certainly look it up. thanks

[GWC]

Speak to the planning officer for that area and ask for their views on what you are proposing to do.

[monthefish]

ascayman said:

Apologies for not being clear.

no the bungalow is fine and has been there for 20 years.

I however am only interested in buying the property if i can knock it down and build my own house.

There is no planning permission in place for this and the vendor wont wait whilst i get it.

Im not trying to get a discount on the property, I guess im asking if there is anyway i can find out for sure if ill be granted planning or at least get an indication prior to me purchasing as if i cant there is no point in me buying as im not interested in the bungalow.

You can have an informal or fairly formal chat with the planners and gauge their feeling on your proposals. The problem is that this isn't watertight, and they can, and do, change their minds. Further the decision is not solely down to the planners as the application will be put out for comment and will take into account any comments received (from residents, locals and government bodies such as the roads dept etc)

Unless the bungalow was in an area of special interest, I'd personally be likely to go for it (having done my own research into the situation) but I couldn't recommend someone else do the same.

Another option is to make the offer on the house (for the full price) subject to planning or, alternatively, buy the house at the Bungalow value with an agreeement you will pay further monies (up to the actual price) if you get planning. (If you don't get planning, you can punt it on).

How is it being marketed/sold? i.e. Is the vendor aware of the potential and selling it as such?

[randlemarcus]

monthefish said:

Another option is to make the offer on the house (for the full price) subject to planning or, alternatively, buy the house at the Bungalow value with an agreeement you will pay further monies (up to the actual price) if you get planning. (If you don't get planning, you can punt it on).

Can't see the upside for the bungalowner on the first idea, and a huge downside to the OP on the second.
He could see if the current owner wants to apply for PP to double the value, and pay him that value, or, like he says take the punt himself.

[ascayman]

monthefish said:

You can have an informal or fairly formal chat with the planners and gauge their feeling on your proposals. The problem is that this isn't watertight, and they can, and do, change their minds. Further the decision is not solely down to the planners as the application will be put out for comment and will take into account any comments received (from residents, locals and government bodies such as the roads dept etc)

Unless the bungalow was in an area of special interest, I'd personally be likely to go for it (having done my own research into the situation) but I couldn't recommend someone else do the same.

Another option is to make the offer on the house (for the full price) subject to planning or, alternatively, buy the house at the Bungalow value with an agreeement you will pay further monies (up to the actual price) if you get planning. (If you don't get planning, you can punt it on).

How is it being marketed/sold? i.e. Is the vendor aware of the potential and selling it as such?

excellent advice thank you for taking the time.

yes it is very much being marketed in that way the EA blub is as follows

'this 4 bedroom detached chalet style home offers scope for extension, subject to the normal planning permissions.
.... Road is one of the most popular turnings within the village and this particular property offers a good sized unoverlooked rear garden, which would be perfect for the growing family.

Many of the properties within this private road have been extended and improved to an exceptionally high standard to make this area particularly exclusive and sought after.'

[monthefish]

randlemarcus said:

monthefish said:

Another option is to make the offer on the house (for the full price) subject to planning or, alternatively, buy the house at the Bungalow value with an agreeement you will pay further monies (up to the actual price) if you get planning. (If you don't get planning, you can punt it on).

Can't see the upside for the bungalowner on the first idea, and a huge downside to the OP on the second.

Upside for the bungalow owner for both ideas is that he gets a sale. How attractive this is depends on (1) how keen he is to sell, and (2) how much other interest is in the property.
I wouldn't have said option 2 was a huge downside for the OP - it's all about achieving what he wants whilst minimise his risk/exposure. Yes, it'd be a hassle to sell it on, but at least he wouldn't lose a great deal of money.

randlemarcus said:

He could see if the current owner wants to apply for PP to double the value, and pay him that value, or, like he says take the punt himself.

But the bungalow is already being marketed at the value of it having the potential.
If there was any more to be gained from getting the consent, I'm sure the owner would do so.

[rex]

I was in exactly this situation as smaller property was for sale as a house and I took the gamble on being granted DPP for a much larger house. The gamble is not the price of the property but the costs assocciated with 1 purchase and 1 sale.

What are you prepared to gamble.

[Simpo Two]

Or buy it, and if PP isn't granted, just resell it for about what you paid for it.

[Sam_68]

Simpo Two said:

Or buy it, and if PP isn't granted, just resell it for about what you paid for it.

This.

But it's a relatively safe gamble if the land use has already been established as 'residential'.

Having said which, £1/2 million + cost of demolition makes it a bloody expensive building plot, so you must either have money to burn and/or really want to live there for it to make sense.

[monthefish]

Simpo Two said:

Or buy it, and if PP isn't granted, just resell it for about what you paid for it.

The problem, as I understand it, is that is it being sold at the value (or thereabouts) it would carry if it had planning (i.e the potential has been taken into account); the risk is that if the OP buys it, and it subsequently doesn't get planning, then there is no way he'll get back what he paid for it.

[ROB_GTR]

Sam_68 said:

Simpo Two said:

Or buy it, and if PP isn't granted, just resell it for about what you paid for it.

This.

But it's a relatively safe gamble if the land use has already been established as 'residential'.

Having said which, £1/2 million + cost of demolition makes it a bloody expensive building plot, so you must either have money to burn and/or really want to live there for it to make sense.

Agree with this. You must REALLY like the area to waste / spend so much on a building plot.

Would the new built house be worth so much to cover the cost of the Bungalow and demolition / rebuild for it to be worth while?

As i see it you have to gamble and hope it pays off or speak with the area council and the parish council as they both have a big say. Also speak to the neighbours and ask their opinions. IE, see if they would object.
Otherwise some of the above suggestions seem reasonable, see if the seller is willing to come to some agreement or willing to hold it for you while you apply for PP.

I am (within a month) about to start building my house so all this is still pretty fresh in my mind.

[Sam_68]

monthefish said:

The problem, as I understand it, is that is it being sold at the value (or thereabouts) it would carry if it had planning...

That's not how I read it, but if it's the case then the answer is simple: tell the vendor to fk right off until he comes up with an outline PP, or make an offer conditional upon obtaining the necessary consent.

If there is anyone out there stupid enough to buy land being marketed at residential development value unconditionally, without benefit of outline consent, I'd like to meet them: I've got these magic beans at home I can let them have for an absolute snip.

[Thom987]

GWC said:

Speak to the planning officer for that area and ask for their views on what you are proposing to do.

This.

[Sam_68]

Thom987 said:

GWC said:

Speak to the planning officer for that area and ask for their views on what you are proposing to do.

This.

If the land already has a non-listed dwelling on it, then it's pretty nailed on that some form of replacement dwelling will be acceptable (you don't even need to ask). It's then down to whether the detail of what the OP wants to do is acceptable and the pre-application advice of a Planning Officer on that is next to worthless: I've seen too many U-turns due to changes of personnel, differing opinion of other officers/consultees or whims of Planning Committee to give any weight to informal pre-app advice.

And in any case you won't get a straight answer - it will always carry a disclaimer (as Monthefish has already explained above).

[davepoth]

The other nearby houses are a good guide - if bungalows have been knocked down next door and replaced with bigger houses, the planners have very little argument with you doing the same unless you have designed your house in the shape of a massive penis.

[GWC]

Sam_68 said:

Thom987 said:

GWC said:

Speak to the planning officer for that area and ask for their views on what you are proposing to do.

This.

If the land already has a non-listed dwelling on it, then it's pretty nailed on that some form of replacement dwelling will be acceptable (you don't even need to ask). It's then down to whether the detail of what the OP wants to do is acceptable and the pre-application advice of a Planning Officer on that is next to worthless: I've seen too many U-turns due to changes of personnel, differing opinion of other officers/consultees or whims of Planning Committee to give any weight to informal pre-app advice.

And in any case you won't get a straight answer - it will always carry a disclaimer (as Monthefish has already explained above).

They'll certainly tell you if you're wasting your time with the sort of scheme you are proposing which it seems the OP is worried about. Obviously nothing is a given in planning until the sheet is stamped or the committee vote. As a first port of call I'd still see the planning officer as I have done many times over the years, then you need to weigh up if you think you can win it and if you don't win how much it will cost you.