BSc. Economics graduate (1st class), can't get a job!
Discussion
Long time PH reader here really struggling to get a job despite some good interviews.
A little bit about myself:
I have just recently graduated from university at the age of 21.
I worked hard and managed to obtain first class honours in BSc. Economics from an ok university.
My GCSEs and A-Levels are very good.
I have applied to many companies big and small for almost a year.
You can probably guess that I didn't get an internship during the summer holidays.
I even struggled to get a job in a shop during the summer holidays - so ended up working in the family business.
My question is....what would you do?
Thanks
A little bit about myself:
I have just recently graduated from university at the age of 21.
I worked hard and managed to obtain first class honours in BSc. Economics from an ok university.
My GCSEs and A-Levels are very good.
I have applied to many companies big and small for almost a year.
You can probably guess that I didn't get an internship during the summer holidays.
I even struggled to get a job in a shop during the summer holidays - so ended up working in the family business.
My question is....what would you do?
Thanks
At least one and possibly all of the above TBH.
Difficult to say conclusively without knowing more but are you very much an academic, rather than a little more rounded? Have you had much by way of interviews (and thus interview practice - could actually be rather important)? Have you had any advice on your CV & presentation of? Have you considered further education in something a little more obvious/rounded? What exactly are you applying for & is it the right thing? Are you being very specific in what you're applying for or going for the scattergun approach?
I've been in your position (aside from the 1st - I was far too lazy and irresponsible for that, even if I had the ability) and spent a fair old time on the rock & roll as a result of my misdemeanors. I also had an absolute raft of thank you but f
k you letters to read. However, things turn up at the most unexpected times and the most unexpected places, so don't lose hope, even if things are hard at the moment (as they were when I was in your position). Have a think about some of the points raised, see if you can do something about them & if nothing jumps out, it may almost be worth going traveling or overseas volunteering for a while. If not doing further study, it may be worth doing that rather than possibly spending another 6-12 months sponging off the state 
Difficult to say conclusively without knowing more but are you very much an academic, rather than a little more rounded? Have you had much by way of interviews (and thus interview practice - could actually be rather important)? Have you had any advice on your CV & presentation of? Have you considered further education in something a little more obvious/rounded? What exactly are you applying for & is it the right thing? Are you being very specific in what you're applying for or going for the scattergun approach?
I've been in your position (aside from the 1st - I was far too lazy and irresponsible for that, even if I had the ability) and spent a fair old time on the rock & roll as a result of my misdemeanors. I also had an absolute raft of thank you but f
k you letters to read. However, things turn up at the most unexpected times and the most unexpected places, so don't lose hope, even if things are hard at the moment (as they were when I was in your position). Have a think about some of the points raised, see if you can do something about them & if nothing jumps out, it may almost be worth going traveling or overseas volunteering for a while. If not doing further study, it may be worth doing that rather than possibly spending another 6-12 months sponging off the state Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies.
In order of replies:
I will definitely volunteer.
I'm not sure how to network - do I go to as many careers fairs as I can and talk to employers?
I'd rather not study anymore - I feel like I've done too many exams/assessments and fancy a change.
The feedback from jobs I didn't get are quite mixed.
Most were about not meeting certain competencies (e.g. leadership - I guess being massively inexperienced makes it harder to be 'competent' in this way).
A few were about not showing enough interest in the industry (that was when I was applying via the scatter gun approach as ClintonB put it).
The better interviews were from industries I have an interest in - feedback from a recent one for example was that I was enthusiastic and knew a lot about the company and role but I lacked an eye for detail(!) based on some brainteaser I was given which I disagree with but there's nothing I can do about that anymore.
Most of the time I couldn't get feedback on the basis of large application volume.
I am definitely not an academic - I can't imagine myself being a professor!
I've had perhaps a 40% hit rate with interviews compared to applications (poor competencies probably).
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say.
Recently I've abandoned the scatter gun approach and have applied to insurance based roles which I think is interesting (compared to a lot of things out there) but if I am totally honest, I haven't the faintest idea what is out there that would really really make me look forward to going into work (short of things I can't do like running an F1 team for example).
I think I will end up going abroad at some time if nothing pops up. It would probably do me a world of good.
In order of replies:
I will definitely volunteer.
I'm not sure how to network - do I go to as many careers fairs as I can and talk to employers?
I'd rather not study anymore - I feel like I've done too many exams/assessments and fancy a change.
The feedback from jobs I didn't get are quite mixed.
Most were about not meeting certain competencies (e.g. leadership - I guess being massively inexperienced makes it harder to be 'competent' in this way).
A few were about not showing enough interest in the industry (that was when I was applying via the scatter gun approach as ClintonB put it).
The better interviews were from industries I have an interest in - feedback from a recent one for example was that I was enthusiastic and knew a lot about the company and role but I lacked an eye for detail(!) based on some brainteaser I was given which I disagree with but there's nothing I can do about that anymore.
Most of the time I couldn't get feedback on the basis of large application volume.
I am definitely not an academic - I can't imagine myself being a professor!
I've had perhaps a 40% hit rate with interviews compared to applications (poor competencies probably).
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say.
Recently I've abandoned the scatter gun approach and have applied to insurance based roles which I think is interesting (compared to a lot of things out there) but if I am totally honest, I haven't the faintest idea what is out there that would really really make me look forward to going into work (short of things I can't do like running an F1 team for example).
I think I will end up going abroad at some time if nothing pops up. It would probably do me a world of good.
Anonymous Caller said:
Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies.
In order of replies:
OK, picking bits:
I'm not sure how to network - do I go to as many careers fairs as I can and talk to employers? Funny thing networking, especially as a student/recent student, since you probably have the contacts, but don't. I'll admit I'm hopeless at this (even after rolling into a second decade of wage slaveness) but it seems in essence that 'tis all about buggering (so to speak) your mates, friends of friends, friends of family, someone you talked to at the train station/bus stop etc. Always strikes me as a level below prostitution, but at the same time, it is like being in the Masons (without being in either that lot, the Mormons or even the local Golf bat club).
I'd rather not study anymore - I feel like I've done too many exams/assessments and fancy a change. Know how you feel, but at the same time beggars can't be choosers. You obviously have ability, just not anything to get people excited (even though with the 1st, you ought to get an audience at least). Just to give you an example, I'm not without ability but lazy & generally disinterested. However, I went further and tried ( a bit
) - even with my lack of interest & not doing the (apparently ) holy grail that is an MBA comedy degree)), it got me interviews that by rights I should never have had and wouldn't have had a hope of otherwise.
The feedback from jobs I didn't get are quite mixed. OK, you're more on the ball than I ever was, I never asked. Still, I guess 'tis more necessary now.
Most were about not meeting certain competencies (e.g. leadership - I guess being massively inexperienced makes it harder to be 'competent' in this way).
A few were about not showing enough interest in the industry (that was when I was applying via the scatter gun approach as ClintonB put it). You need to improve your bullsttting skills! I applied for many jobs I had cock all interest in. I'd like to run a car company TBH, but I'd also like to be employed and have money in the old sky more, TBH. However, in the short term it is all about showing how much you can give someone for nil risk and plenty of return.
The better interviews were from industries I have an interest in - feedback from a recent one for example was that I was enthusiastic and knew a lot about the company and role but I lacked an eye for detail(!) based on some brainteaser I was given which I disagree with but there's nothing I can do about that anymore. st happens, in many ways. I work in an environment I don't have that much of an interest in (but have a decent - good appreciation of). The eye for detail sounds like a convenient answer to a question they'd rather not answer TBH. You have a boring fk degree (as do I 
) & you're attention to detail is probably greater than mine (at least on the face of it!).
I am definitely not an academic - I can't imagine myself being a professor! Academic isn't quite that. Think of it more as a lover not a fighter, a doer not a thinker etc. If you aren't a charmer/worker or the like (relatively speaking), you need to have as much in your locker as you can. Even with my lazyness at your age, a vague (if obvious attempt) to look interested and a hard to fathom attitude, a couple of extra letters post nomenclature on occasion got me into opportunities I probably shouldn't have had.
I've had perhaps a 40% hit rate with interviews compared to applications (poor competencies probably). Far from the worst hit rate in the world!!!
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say. Hmmmmmmm, while Uni career services are worthy, they have their place and no more. You should speak to Phil Han of Accountancy Talent
- He'll get you in places you'd never imagine were possible! Otherwise, if you know anyone in a decent/big company who recruits, I'd say that's a far better option, if only to give you a bullst view of the real world.
Recently I've abandoned the scatter gun approach and have applied to insurance based roles which I think is interesting (compared to a lot of things out there) but if I am totally honest, I haven't the faintest idea what is out there that would really really make me look forward to going into work (short of things I can't do like running an F1 team for example). -- If considering insurance (and you have the mathematical background), go for the actuarial world. Outside of Slime & Shark, that's about as lucrative as you'll probably get
I think I will end up going abroad at some time if nothing pops up. It would probably do me a world of good. I suspect it really would, if at the right time. I never did and now a good part of me regrets not doing so. You're only young enough once (approximately) to do it and then build a life afterwards for a few years. If not, I'll swap you a job for a once in a lifetime!!!
In order of replies:
OK, picking bits:
I'm not sure how to network - do I go to as many careers fairs as I can and talk to employers? Funny thing networking, especially as a student/recent student, since you probably have the contacts, but don't. I'll admit I'm hopeless at this (even after rolling into a second decade of wage slaveness) but it seems in essence that 'tis all about buggering (so to speak) your mates, friends of friends, friends of family, someone you talked to at the train station/bus stop etc. Always strikes me as a level below prostitution, but at the same time, it is like being in the Masons (without being in either that lot, the Mormons or even the local Golf bat club).
I'd rather not study anymore - I feel like I've done too many exams/assessments and fancy a change. Know how you feel, but at the same time beggars can't be choosers. You obviously have ability, just not anything to get people excited (even though with the 1st, you ought to get an audience at least). Just to give you an example, I'm not without ability but lazy & generally disinterested. However, I went further and tried ( a bit
) - even with my lack of interest & not doing the (apparently ) holy grail that is an MBA comedy degree)), it got me interviews that by rights I should never have had and wouldn't have had a hope of otherwise.The feedback from jobs I didn't get are quite mixed. OK, you're more on the ball than I ever was, I never asked. Still, I guess 'tis more necessary now.
Most were about not meeting certain competencies (e.g. leadership - I guess being massively inexperienced makes it harder to be 'competent' in this way).
A few were about not showing enough interest in the industry (that was when I was applying via the scatter gun approach as ClintonB put it). You need to improve your bulls
ttting skills! I applied for many jobs I had cock all interest in. I'd like to run a car company TBH, but I'd also like to be employed and have money in the old sky more, TBH. However, in the short term it is all about showing how much you can give someone for nil risk and plenty of return.The better interviews were from industries I have an interest in - feedback from a recent one for example was that I was enthusiastic and knew a lot about the company and role but I lacked an eye for detail(!) based on some brainteaser I was given which I disagree with but there's nothing I can do about that anymore. s
t happens, in many ways. I work in an environment I don't have that much of an interest in (but have a decent - good appreciation of). The eye for detail sounds like a convenient answer to a question they'd rather not answer TBH. You have a boring fk degree (as do I ) & you're attention to detail is probably greater than mine (at least on the face of it!).I am definitely not an academic - I can't imagine myself being a professor! Academic isn't quite that. Think of it more as a lover not a fighter, a doer not a thinker etc. If you aren't a charmer/worker or the like (relatively speaking), you need to have as much in your locker as you can. Even with my lazyness at your age, a vague (if obvious attempt) to look interested and a hard to fathom attitude, a couple of extra letters post nomenclature on occasion got me into opportunities I probably shouldn't have had.
I've had perhaps a 40% hit rate with interviews compared to applications (poor competencies probably). Far from the worst hit rate in the world!!!
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say. Hmmmmmmm, while Uni career services are worthy, they have their place and no more. You should speak to Phil Han of Accountancy Talent
- He'll get you in places you'd never imagine were possible! Otherwise, if you know anyone in a decent/big company who recruits, I'd say that's a far better option, if only to give you a bullst view of the real world.Recently I've abandoned the scatter gun approach and have applied to insurance based roles which I think is interesting (compared to a lot of things out there) but if I am totally honest, I haven't the faintest idea what is out there that would really really make me look forward to going into work (short of things I can't do like running an F1 team for example). -- If considering insurance (and you have the mathematical background), go for the actuarial world. Outside of Slime & Shark, that's about as lucrative as you'll probably get
I think I will end up going abroad at some time if nothing pops up. It would probably do me a world of good. I suspect it really would, if at the right time. I never did and now a good part of me regrets not doing so. You're only young enough once (approximately) to do it and then build a life afterwards for a few years. If not, I'll swap you a job for a once in a lifetime!!!
Getting a 40% hit rate of interviews to applications seems good to me and would suggest the CV is sort of working but interview technique is not.
More interview practice, more research on the company and work areas before interview, look interested in everything and learn to bullst better.
More interview practice, more research on the company and work areas before interview, look interested in everything and learn to bulls
t better.You're in a similar situation to mine when I graduated - I finished my masters not long after the dot-com collapse so although I was a decent graduate I was up against lots of other candidates who had the degree plus a few years commercial experience so I was losing out left right and centre on jobs that in better times I would have stood a good chance of getting. The difference now is that the struggle is across most industries which makes it even harder. I ended up getting my break in a sales job of all things but it was in the right industry and I was able to move across in to a more technical role as time went on so it might be worth looking at other more general roles in the industry you're trying to get in to.
Good luck fella!
Good luck fella!
Pabl0 said:
Getting a 40% hit rate of interviews to applications seems good to me and would suggest the CV is sort of working but interview technique is not.
More interview practice, more research on the company and work areas before interview, look interested in everything and learn to bullst better.
+1 More interview practice, more research on the company and work areas before interview, look interested in everything and learn to bulls
t better.40% is excellent
your interview technique need work- there are a fair few places thta cab help
sounds like you don’t have any real world experience and struggle with the competency based interview questions:
"describe a time when.. blah blah"
get some work, any work where you interact with teams etc, even tescos, to give some experience
within a month or two, if you are any good you'll be promoted into a position or given opportunities to build up examples in the real world to answer some of those interview questions
... or you'll be found out as an academic that can learn from a book, but not think for themselves or apply themselves in the real world (only joking... ish)
And keep applying... sometimes you’ll be offered 2 jobs within a week, sometimes it can take upto a year to do a sideways move even with experience.
Sometimes you think the job was a perfect fit and you don’t get it sometimes you think you flunked the interview... but get the job
Keep trying
Custard
"describe a time when.. blah blah"
get some work, any work where you interact with teams etc, even tescos, to give some experience
within a month or two, if you are any good you'll be promoted into a position or given opportunities to build up examples in the real world to answer some of those interview questions
... or you'll be found out as an academic that can learn from a book, but not think for themselves or apply themselves in the real world (only joking... ish)
And keep applying... sometimes you’ll be offered 2 jobs within a week, sometimes it can take upto a year to do a sideways move even with experience.
Sometimes you think the job was a perfect fit and you don’t get it sometimes you think you flunked the interview... but get the job
Keep trying
Custard
custardkid said:
And keep applying... sometimes you’ll be offered 2 jobs within a week, sometimes it can take upto a year to do a sideways move even with experience.
Sometimes you think the job was a perfect fit and you don’t get it sometimes you think you flunked the interview... but get the job
IME, there is a lot of truth in this. Just got to keep plugging at it, do some voluntary in the meantime if possible. The 'answer' will come up in the most unlikely place Sometimes you think the job was a perfect fit and you don’t get it sometimes you think you flunked the interview... but get the job
"I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say."
well you can get the interviews off the CV, but something ain't right........just had my CV re-jigged after some "experts" buggered it up, two job offers post interview so far, go figure....
As for volunteering DON'T limit yourself to "career" paths alone.
Get out and do something, community wise, anything.
I have am going through the vetting process for AFYD [aphid-Angling For Youth Development] an organisation that takes kids from deprived areas and teaches them angling and the countryside in general.
It all helps.
well you can get the interviews off the CV, but something ain't right........just had my CV re-jigged after some "experts" buggered it up, two job offers post interview so far, go figure....
As for volunteering DON'T limit yourself to "career" paths alone.
Get out and do something, community wise, anything.
I have am going through the vetting process for AFYD [aphid-Angling For Youth Development] an organisation that takes kids from deprived areas and teaches them angling and the countryside in general.
It all helps.
I would be interested to speak with you about your interview technique.
I work as a recruitment consultant and own a CV writing website (newly founded). Feel free to PM me and we can discuss your options, I might be able to point you in the right direction. I certaintly have a lot of excellent material on various interview techniques.
I work as a recruitment consultant and own a CV writing website (newly founded). Feel free to PM me and we can discuss your options, I might be able to point you in the right direction. I certaintly have a lot of excellent material on various interview techniques.
I must admit I am massively impressed with the support you guys are giving
In order of replies again (roughly):
With regards to networking, I have asked relatives, parents of my friends, etc. (but not strangers) and it seems no-one can help.
Hmm...further study - I suppose if I get nowhere I will apply (but perhaps in a different country so I can enjoy being abroad as well).
Yes I think I do need to learn how to bullst more as you say... I suppose I can't be that picky with jobs at the moment.
Perhaps my CV could do with an overhaul? Probably not with the fellow you mention though
In insurance, to be considered for an actuarial role, don't I need some sort of actuary degree/qualification?
To be honest, job wise, I find it hard to know what else I am interested in and suitable for without experiencing it.
Yes I will probably need to work on interviews a bit more, especially for jobs that I am not near 100% keen on.
Yes I will look at more general roles (scatter gun approach again but with better bullstting).
Yes I have zero real world experience and struggle hugely with competency based interviews.
I'll try to get some work - it's just very difficult, even at Tesco (never see any vacancies at my local).
Volunteering sounds good. I won't limit it to any path as I have no idea where or what my 'career path' is anyway
I'll keep applying in the mean time - this thread has boosted my morale.
Vladikar - I'm not sure how to PM you...
In order of replies again (roughly):
With regards to networking, I have asked relatives, parents of my friends, etc. (but not strangers) and it seems no-one can help.
Hmm...further study - I suppose if I get nowhere I will apply (but perhaps in a different country so I can enjoy being abroad as well).
Yes I think I do need to learn how to bulls
t more as you say... I suppose I can't be that picky with jobs at the moment. Perhaps my CV could do with an overhaul? Probably not with the fellow you mention though
In insurance, to be considered for an actuarial role, don't I need some sort of actuary degree/qualification?
To be honest, job wise, I find it hard to know what else I am interested in and suitable for without experiencing it.
Yes I will probably need to work on interviews a bit more, especially for jobs that I am not near 100% keen on.
Yes I will look at more general roles (scatter gun approach again but with better bulls
tting).Yes I have zero real world experience and struggle hugely with competency based interviews.
I'll try to get some work - it's just very difficult, even at Tesco (never see any vacancies at my local).
Volunteering sounds good. I won't limit it to any path as I have no idea where or what my 'career path' is anyway
I'll keep applying in the mean time - this thread has boosted my morale.
Vladikar - I'm not sure how to PM you...
Anonymous Caller said:
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say.
I wouldn't rely on them, most probably left school went to uni graduated then couldn't find work else where so stayed on at uni, my CV was posted up on the job boards at the start of the week and every day since I have had calls from agencies. The current job market needs cleverer CVs than in the past. Engineer1 said:
Anonymous Caller said:
I've had my CV checked by uni careers staff - all fine they say.
The current job market needs cleverer CVs than in the past. Edited by rog007 on Sunday 7th August 05:17
OP - you mentioned leadership as being on of the things they mentioned in the feedback process. This got me thinking - have you been applying for senior or Management positions? When I was at Uni, lots of my mates thought they would walk straight into well paid Management Consultancy-type positions but very few of them did.
Could it be that you are aiming a bit too high or being a bit picky with the work you would like to do (aside from the shop work you mentioned). It is often easier to get a lower-grade job and prove your worth in the company to get promoted up.
I currently deal with many Managing Directors and Chief Execs and many of these have worked up from Junior positions in their organisations.
It sounds like you have some strong qualifications, but you must realise that for the top jobs there will be others out there with better qualifications from better Universities AND lots of experience in similar roles.
Good luck with finding a job though - keep at it!
Could it be that you are aiming a bit too high or being a bit picky with the work you would like to do (aside from the shop work you mentioned). It is often easier to get a lower-grade job and prove your worth in the company to get promoted up.
I currently deal with many Managing Directors and Chief Execs and many of these have worked up from Junior positions in their organisations.
It sounds like you have some strong qualifications, but you must realise that for the top jobs there will be others out there with better qualifications from better Universities AND lots of experience in similar roles.
Good luck with finding a job though - keep at it!
I've not applied to senior positions however I have applied to some entry level graduate management schemes.
I don't think I was being particularly picky with the job hunt, especially earlier during the year. I was also applying to roles that had little resemblance to what I studied at university, such as sales and recruitment...
Thanks for the support though
Time to get my CV overhauled...
however I have applied to some entry level graduate management schemes.I don't think I was being particularly picky with the job hunt, especially earlier during the year. I was also applying to roles that had little resemblance to what I studied at university, such as sales and recruitment...
Thanks for the support though
Time to get my CV overhauled...
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