NA B-25 Mitchell - help needed

[Marshdweller]

I'm currently building the Airfix Mitchell, and they have helpfully neglected to give any information regarding interior colours. Can anyone suggest colours for the cockpit, gun turrets and bomb bays please? If you can suggest Humbrol paint numbers, I would be grateful but it isn't the end of the world if you can't.

Thanks!

[Eric Mc]

A bit of an old clunker, that kit.

Most American aircraft of that era used zinc chromate as their interior colour - although there would be lots of variations on that theme.

Not sure of a Humbrol version but Tamiya Acrylic XF-4 is close to the right shade.

[SlipStream77]

Some photos of the interior here.

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/b25flightse_2.h...

How about US Light Green (117) or Army Green (102)?

http://www.humbrol.com/paints/acrylic-paints/?page...

[Marshdweller]

Cheers! Given what Eric said, is that green interior an accurate representation or a mistake during restoration? (Is there a particular reason why interiors were painted green?)

Secondly, what's the best way of weighting the nose so that the model doesn't tip backwards?

[SlipStream77]

Marshdweller said:

Cheers! Given what Eric said, is that green interior an accurate representation or a mistake during restoration? (Is there a particular reason why interiors were painted green?)

Secondly, what's the best way of weighting the nose so that the model doesn't tip backwards?

Sorry, I really don't know if the green is accurate or not, remember that the light conditions when the photos were taken will also have affected the shade.

My guess would be that during the war there was a lot of green paint around for camo. reasons, also there might have been a psychological aspect to the colour selection. Many russian aircraft have green/blue interiors for that reason.

Re. weighting the nose, I use solder that is wound around a pencil and squashed until it fits into the nose, I then fix it in there with PVA.

[Eric Mc]

The interior greens used in WW2 were that colour because of the corrosion resistant chemicals that were contained within them. American colours tended to be a yellowy green (zinc chromate) and British green was a distinctive shade refered to as Interior Gereen. They are not the same colours and were not related in any significant way to the various exterior shades of green used in camouflage paints.

The Germans used greys of various sort. At the beginning of the war the standard German cockpit colour was a grey referred to as RLM02 (RLM - Reichsluftminsterium - German Air Ministry). Later in the war a darker grey known as RLM66 was used.

Weighting the nose of WW2 nosewheel aircraft can be a problem. I use anglers' lead weights pushed into plastecine and sealed in with white glue. Finding space in the nose can be difficult - especially if the nose area is glazed, as it is in the Airfix version of the B-25. Weights can also be pushed into the space behind the engines.

Edited by Eric Mc on Saturday 6th August 21:17

[perdu]

zinc chromate, which is what Eric (and I) would expect to be the colour and it is basically a deep metallic yellow

I rather think the Mitchell in that article to be a tad over-restored as you suspect

If you go to the Wiki article on zinc chromate the first picture is of a factory full of B25s being built and painted in all over ZC

Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_chromate

There is likely to be a cockpit green padding as shown in the walkaround but the real interior colour ought to be an unfaded version of the zinc chromate wheel hub in those pictures, possibly the only remaining genuine bit of wartime paint on the old lady. Think more yellow less dirtied up.

All this stuff is what keeps my interest up with modelling. The research sometimes takes over from the building. I have to force myself to get the glue going at times.

Another link showing aircraft being built in ZC yellow during WWll

http://www.colorserver.net/history/history-zinc-ch...

hope it helps you

Edited by perdu on Saturday 6th August 21:19

[Eric Mc]

You should have seen me searching for Shuttle External Tank details.

It's amazing to think that the Shuttle Orbiter and the B-25 were made by the same company and are only separated by about 35 years?

[perdu]

Eric Mc said:

You should have seen me searching for Shuttle External Tank details.

It's amazing to think that the Shuttle Orbiter and the B-25 were made by the same company and are only separated by about 35 years?

I promise NOT to look up Shuttle data Eric

(any ZC on it nowadays, apart from the putty)

I am not too surprised at The Mitchell and Shuttle being built by the same company.

As grew up in the 50s I simply "expected" scientific miracles to occur. They seemed to happen daily in the aviation field. Mighty stainless steel aircraft, planes that could take off straight up and men going up into the stratosphere, then Gagarin…

Oh for open unlimited budgets these days, what a world we could be about to have huh!

[dr_gn]

Marshdweller said:

Cheers! Given what Eric said, is that green interior an accurate representation or a mistake during restoration? (Is there a particular reason why interiors were painted green?)

Secondly, what's the best way of weighting the nose so that the model doesn't tip backwards?

If you put B-25 interior into Google images it seems to be an accurate restoration. I've got a couple of detail books on the B-25 too, and it is a similar green in there too. There is however another photo of a B-25 cockpit in black. Anyway, the chromate green looks nothing like it; it can be seen here on the u/c doors and engine intake of the recently restored P-47 at Duxford (pic from random forum):

[Eric Mc]

Maybe they nicked some British paint.

North American were a pretty unscrupulous lot.

[Marshdweller]

SlipStream77 said:

Sorry, I really don't know if the green is accurate or not, remember that the light conditions when the photos were taken will also have affected the shade.

My guess would be that during the war there was a lot of green paint around for camo. reasons, also there might have been a psychological aspect to the colour selection. Many russian aircraft have green/blue interiors for that reason.

Re. weighting the nose, I use solder that is wound around a pencil and squashed until it fits into the nose, I then fix it in there with PVA.

Sorry, I didn't mean the exact shade of green. I was assuming zinc chromate was a metallic colour so was wondering whether green was a more or less accurate colour than zinc chromate.

[dr_gn]

Marshdweller said:

SlipStream77 said:

Sorry, I really don't know if the green is accurate or not, remember that the light conditions when the photos were taken will also have affected the shade.

My guess would be that during the war there was a lot of green paint around for camo. reasons, also there might have been a psychological aspect to the colour selection. Many russian aircraft have green/blue interiors for that reason.

Re. weighting the nose, I use solder that is wound around a pencil and squashed until it fits into the nose, I then fix it in there with PVA.

Sorry, I didn't mean the exact shade of green. I was assuming zinc chromate was a metallic colour so was wondering whether green was a more or less accurate colour than zinc chromate.

Zinc chromate isn't metallic - at least not in the car bodywork sense of the word, it's the yellow/green colour on the P-47 I posted above.

As I said, from the references I have, the dark green in the picture of the restored aircraft looks accurate, although there is at least one photo of a B-25 with a matt black interior. I can't find any images of a B-25 interior (cockpit etc) in Zinc chromate, although there are a few showing 'invisible from the outside' parts of the interior in chromate.

[Eric Mc]

These paints were corrosion inhibiters.

[Marshdweller]

dr_gn said:

Zinc chromate isn't metallic - at least not in the car bodywork sense of the word, it's the yellow/green colour on the P-47 I posted above.

As I said, from the references I have, the dark green in the picture of the restored aircraft looks accurate, although there is at least one photo of a B-25 with a matt black interior. I can't find any images of a B-25 interior (cockpit etc) in Zinc chromate, although there are a few showing 'invisible from the outside' parts of the interior in chromate.

Yeah, I made the naive assumption that as it had "zinc" in the name it would be metallic.

[Marshdweller]

Anyways, thanks guys!

I'm probably going to go for a green interior with black instrument panel and brown seats. I'm not aiming for 100% accuracy, but just wanted some ideas about what would look reasonably realistic in a 1/72 scale model.

[perdu]

Further on this interesting topic

I went to The RAF museum in Hendon yesterday and tok a couple of pictures of their B25 for you

Not awfully good, not the best digital camera in the world but for £9 brand new in the tin box it'll do for me

any way this is the front /nose gunner bomb aimers end and I expect the interior to carry this through so Interior Green it is, this time. You can just make out the cockpit framing at the museum







And one last one

as usal, poor but honest



Waist gunner's position

Hope they are some help

[Marshdweller]

perdu said:

Further on this interesting topic

I went to The RAF museum in Hendon yesterday and tok a couple of pictures of their B25 for you

Not awfully good, not the best digital camera in the world but for £9 brand new in the tin box it'll do for me

any way this is the front /nose gunner bomb aimers end and I expect the interior to carry this through so Interior Green it is, this time. You can just make out the cockpit framing at the museum







And one last one

as usal, poor but honest



Waist gunner's position

Hope they are some help

Wow! I'm quite touched that you were thinking of my question/dilemma whilst out enjoying yourself. Thank you very much for taking and posting those pictures.

They will be a massive help - clearly the interior is green (at least in this instance), so I'll be going with that.

I feel I owe you guys some photos of my model, though I doubt my efforts will match the lengths you've been to to help me. I should warn you that this is my first venture into airbrushing, and I'm using the cheapo Airfix/Humbrol one to start with (if it's a success, I'll consider investing in a better one), so results might not be brilliant.

[perdu]

Airbrushes

Yes

I just bought a dual action 0.2mm airbrush from eBay for £12.99 Testing it tomorrow so I will pass on the results when I update my Wessex thread

Chinese made of course but to be honest, looks and feels like a hundred quid one, the proof will be in the eating I s'spect

I'm well chuffed as it even came post free (in a flimsy plastic box that didnt survive uncracked posting in a plastic bubble bag insside a grey plastic bag)

Cracked box is not a major drawback IMO


When I saw the Mitchell I thought it deserved a few pictures but a simple little camera couldnt do it any favours in the twi-lit part of the old hangar.

The Mitchell was a vital part of one of my favourite Desmond Bagley stories, Shooting Script. I have liked them ever since I read it so it was a pleasure to be able to help you with the model

Good luck



bill

[Marshdweller]

Here are a few progress photos:

Test-fitting the wings (a priority task for me after a struggle with a recent Mosquito):





My hi-tech solution to the problem of fitting the tail section together:



Part of the interior construction:



Painting should begin tomorrow (fingers crossed), so then there should be a couple of photos of the painted interior...