Building underground
Discussion
Anyone have any experience of sub-surface building? Residential, preferably, but I'm sure there are good lesson to be learned from the commercial sector too.
Interested in recommendations for the latest applicable tech: e.g. bringing natural light into sub-surface areas; natural and forced ventilation; other pitfalls and lessons learned.
Anything really
Interested in recommendations for the latest applicable tech: e.g. bringing natural light into sub-surface areas; natural and forced ventilation; other pitfalls and lessons learned.
Anything really
pidsy said:
tanking.
very important. very expensive. VERY difficult to get right.
what are you thinking about building?
This. We have just re tanked the entire basement of a house after applied Vandex failed. Correctional costs approached 140k. And remember, tanking needs intalling on the outside, not the inside.very important. very expensive. VERY difficult to get right.
what are you thinking about building?
roofer said:
This. We have just re tanked the entire basement of a house after applied Vandex failed. Correctional costs approached 140k. And remember, tanking needs intalling on the outside, not the inside.
I agree, needs to be correct before finishes go in. Needs installation externally in a new build but can be achieved as an internal remedial solution no problem.V8mate said:
Would they be the same ventilation and daylight I asked about in the OP?
They would. They are also very difficult to get right, being the point.
'Latest tech' (stuff like sunpipes, MVHR) is all very well as secondary systems above ground or to serve non-habitable rooms, but if you genuinely build underground it's very difficult to avoid the place feeling like a wartime bunker, with a continuous feeling of slight damp, background noise from the MVHR and poor daylighting.
Getting the balance of the whole lot right is incredibly difficult, so the bottom line is if you need to ask the questions, forget it... or get yourself a good Architect.
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 10th August 21:15
Fundamental problem in the UK is the high natural water table generally present.
In most Victorian towns which is most of the UK the water table is very high and therefore creates pressure on any wall or membrane underground.
I have been involved in a fair number below ground building generally on split level sites where the elevation at one side is much lower than the other.
It can be done but as others have said this requires specialist contractors a lot of skill and a Civil engineer and Architect to design the correct solution for a specific site.
This is essentially Civil Construction not general housebuilding which requires a different level of skill. Most house builders would not tender for such work its a specialist area.
If you really want to do this, and it is possible, I suggest you contact several architectural practices who specialise in this area. They do exist.
With such a specific requirement you need competent professional advice.
This is not a suitable project a broad brush solution. Its not general housing. You NEED specialist professional advice. For the specific project in a specific location. No other way.
In most Victorian towns which is most of the UK the water table is very high and therefore creates pressure on any wall or membrane underground.
I have been involved in a fair number below ground building generally on split level sites where the elevation at one side is much lower than the other.
It can be done but as others have said this requires specialist contractors a lot of skill and a Civil engineer and Architect to design the correct solution for a specific site.
This is essentially Civil Construction not general housebuilding which requires a different level of skill. Most house builders would not tender for such work its a specialist area.
If you really want to do this, and it is possible, I suggest you contact several architectural practices who specialise in this area. They do exist.
With such a specific requirement you need competent professional advice.
This is not a suitable project a broad brush solution. Its not general housing. You NEED specialist professional advice. For the specific project in a specific location. No other way.
V8mate said:
What a bizarre statement.
Not really. If I had the time (which I don't), I could explain each individual issue to you (tanking, daylighting, thermal efficiency, ventilation, etc., etc.) and the pros and cons of the various solutions available to deal with them.
But to come up with a genuinely workable, pleasant living environment (not to mention one which is compliant with statutory requirements) relies on being able to balance the various issues properly, which takes a lot of knowledge and experience (and some fancy computer analysis).
Training to become an Architect takes seven years. It takes several more years in practice after that before you're much use to anyone. And designing habitable underground dwellings is a specialised field even for an Architect.
What you are asking is therefore akin to turning up on a motoring forum and asking for advice on the best way to tackle a particular form of surgery. The best advice you're going to get is to find yourself an expert. Be slightly wary of anyone who reckons all you need is a selection of kitchen knifes and a bottle of vodka.
I have limited experience, including designing and building many split-level houses that are partially underground and undertaking a study, many years ago for Persimmon Homes, into the viability of habitable basements on developer housing (the conclusion was forget it: using the room in the roof as a 2nd floor was far more viable but - this being years before 2.5 and 3 storey developer housing came back into vogue with PPG3 - they politely poo-pooed that suggestion. I had the last laugh...). I wouldn't claim to be an expert, despite probably having more experience than the majority of Architects in this field, but I know enough to know how badly you can get it wrong if you don't know what you're doing.
I can recommend several very good Universities for beginning your study the basics of Architectural design, if you've not got anything planned for the next decade or so, though.
Whilst the tone of the post by Sam68 is not mine I agree with the essence of his point.
This kind of construction requires serious (and expensive) professional advice.
This is NOT a job for the amateur: even assessing the possibilities requires professional specialist advice. Without that you are wasting your time: common sense and good judgement will not work in this kind of specialist construction.
It is very difficult to build below the ground in the UK.
This kind of construction requires serious (and expensive) professional advice.
This is NOT a job for the amateur: even assessing the possibilities requires professional specialist advice. Without that you are wasting your time: common sense and good judgement will not work in this kind of specialist construction.
It is very difficult to build below the ground in the UK.
Steffan said:
Whilst the tone of the post by Sam68 is not mine I agree with the essence of his point.
Luckily for architects like Sam, people like me make a living from extracting architect's heads from their arses Anyway, the actual advice so far, is very interesting.
Any construction would be firstly, in a rural location and, secondly on high ground (relatively, as opposed to seeking out mountains). The latter point would in fact apply to any house I built for myself; I have a natural aversion to low-lying areas.
But I was most keen to hear about systems and construction approaches which deliver good quality sub-surface living. I'm not interested in any more willy-waving!
Steffan said:
Whilst the tone of the post by Sam68 is not mine...
Apologies. It was a reaction to the OP's sarcastic, then caustic response to my initial post. Unfortunately, they didn't do the 'suffering fools gladly' module at the rather technically-biased University that I attended.
V8mate said:
people like me make a living from extracting architect's heads from their arses
Sounds like rather a messy and umpleasant way to make a living. I think I'll stick to drawing houses. V8mate said:
...I have a natural aversion to low-lying areas.
But not low lying accomodation, apparently? 
I'm speculating, but if you're asking the question in the hope of using it as a Planning tactic to mitigate against the usual Planning resistance to development in rural areas (mountainous or otherwise), you'ds be better off Googling 'Gummer's Law'.
... but you'll still need a fancy Architect (and to stand a chance of bulls
tting your way past the Planners, the further he or she has their head up their arse the better, you'll find - it takes a certain arrogance and bravado to ride roughshod over the Planning system and get away with it).I can recommend a couple of practices, if you're anything more than a complete fantasist.
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 10th August 21:59
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