Current gen Mercedes SL - running costs
Discussion
Just tried a new SL and rather enjoyed it, so I'm looking at the very affordable early cars of the current generation. This would be an everyday car but I would use OH's Peugeot where possible. I know running costs will be high but would like to just check, if anyone has any input.
Tyres - depending on size £150 a corner
Mpg - very low 20s (sl500).
ABC suspension - how much are the parts for this? My parents run a garage so I could ask them to fix it and avoid labour costs, so its the parts I'm concerned about. Anyone know what those valves, pumps, and struts cost which i've heard so many bad things about? I'm not bothered about ABC but of course if you go 500 it's a requirement. If the cost of the parts aren't too absurd then it's a nice thing to have on the car.
Automatics - presumably they might give up around 100k miles just like every other automatic ever made?
Anything else that will be particularly costly that I am forgetting? I've never run an SL or similar large car but realise the bigger the car, the more expensive everything gets...
And a couple of questions on the cars themselves... What's the early 270bhp sl350 like - Is it remotely quick? Will an SL be ok parked outside in the rain on a cul-de-sac street or is this a terrible idea? And... Rust. It would appear that these rust too (bloody hell Mercedes were awful back then weren't they) Where do I need to check, and I presume I can treat it cheaply if it's not bad, to prevent it from worsening?
I had been interested in a current model TT but finally drove one and it wasn't for me.
Tyres - depending on size £150 a corner
Mpg - very low 20s (sl500).
ABC suspension - how much are the parts for this? My parents run a garage so I could ask them to fix it and avoid labour costs, so its the parts I'm concerned about. Anyone know what those valves, pumps, and struts cost which i've heard so many bad things about? I'm not bothered about ABC but of course if you go 500 it's a requirement. If the cost of the parts aren't too absurd then it's a nice thing to have on the car.
Automatics - presumably they might give up around 100k miles just like every other automatic ever made?
Anything else that will be particularly costly that I am forgetting? I've never run an SL or similar large car but realise the bigger the car, the more expensive everything gets...
And a couple of questions on the cars themselves... What's the early 270bhp sl350 like - Is it remotely quick? Will an SL be ok parked outside in the rain on a cul-de-sac street or is this a terrible idea? And... Rust. It would appear that these rust too (bloody hell Mercedes were awful back then weren't they) Where do I need to check, and I presume I can treat it cheaply if it's not bad, to prevent it from worsening?
I had been interested in a current model TT but finally drove one and it wasn't for me.
Funny you should post as I went and swapped my BMW for an early 2003 SL500 and whilst its off the road now whilst I tart it up I've found out loads!! My first convetible as well and its brilliant to drive.
First off do not go to a Merc dealer as they are rubbish at mechanics or actually being helpfull, everything is via the VIN number only and replacement of said part irrespective of the possibility it could be easily fixed. I phoned up for a new rear 3rd brake light and wanted the newer clear one, got the response of well thats not for your car sir so its not listed, when asked if they could check, I just got the same again, no flexibility at all. Luckally I have a family member in the trade who sorted me out.
ABc suspension - can be replaced by a half decent home mechanic and bleed mostly by moving the car up and down, a Rodeo test is not much anyhow so if mine brakes IL replace DIY then get it rodeo to speed up the bleeding. As for the shocks themselves there is now a very good firm in Florida who will refurb yrs for about $700 exchange so not to bad really and compared to the daylight robbery of Merc its cheap as chips!
Brakes you can do yourself irrespective of what Merc say, just replaced all mine with no issue, just remember to not open a door whilst the caliper is off as the system self tests and pressurises the caliper. I was curious on this so stuck a wrench in the caliper and opened the door, yes the pistons moved out and touch the wrench but its was very gently so all the hype anout exploding pistons taking fingers off is shyte!
Boot leaks are easy to fix, I spent 6hrs cleaning all the drain holes and rubbers on my car and although it didnt actually leak in the first place I can easily see how Mr high income who brought these things in the first place may have issues as they are hardly the type to spend time cleaning things you cant normally see! The rear window seal at the bottom is a main culprit to leak but again it comes off easy and using some decent sealer it goes back on easy with no more leaks.
Loads of good tips on the forums like checking the foam hydraulic roof and air pump support in the boot for dampness as this will hold any previous water penitration and rot both pump connections since they are encased in the foam.
Body work is primarily ali so no rust, just check the rear arches as they are metal but mine are spotless.
Gearboxs are bullet proof Ive been told by people in the know! just change the gearbox oil every 30k miles which again I have done and is easy DIY!
TBH Im supprised others have not cottoned onto the car as once its clean and lowered (lowering links which take 1/2 hr to fit are only £120!) the cars look awsome.
Personally I would not go for the 350 as it wont give the same roar as the V8 500 and whilst its not alot slower in outright speed it does lack the 500's torque. Again the 500 engine if routinely DIY services is bullet proof since its so understressed!
HAndling is great but a little weird to start with as the car covers up its weight so well, no rolling in the corners or diving under brakes etc.
All in all a great cat IMHO!
SL65 next year once I have finished paying off my old Monaro cost after being ripped off by .... ops cant say here!
First off do not go to a Merc dealer as they are rubbish at mechanics or actually being helpfull, everything is via the VIN number only and replacement of said part irrespective of the possibility it could be easily fixed. I phoned up for a new rear 3rd brake light and wanted the newer clear one, got the response of well thats not for your car sir so its not listed, when asked if they could check, I just got the same again, no flexibility at all. Luckally I have a family member in the trade who sorted me out.
ABc suspension - can be replaced by a half decent home mechanic and bleed mostly by moving the car up and down, a Rodeo test is not much anyhow so if mine brakes IL replace DIY then get it rodeo to speed up the bleeding. As for the shocks themselves there is now a very good firm in Florida who will refurb yrs for about $700 exchange so not to bad really and compared to the daylight robbery of Merc its cheap as chips!
Brakes you can do yourself irrespective of what Merc say, just replaced all mine with no issue, just remember to not open a door whilst the caliper is off as the system self tests and pressurises the caliper. I was curious on this so stuck a wrench in the caliper and opened the door, yes the pistons moved out and touch the wrench but its was very gently so all the hype anout exploding pistons taking fingers off is shyte!
Boot leaks are easy to fix, I spent 6hrs cleaning all the drain holes and rubbers on my car and although it didnt actually leak in the first place I can easily see how Mr high income who brought these things in the first place may have issues as they are hardly the type to spend time cleaning things you cant normally see! The rear window seal at the bottom is a main culprit to leak but again it comes off easy and using some decent sealer it goes back on easy with no more leaks.
Loads of good tips on the forums like checking the foam hydraulic roof and air pump support in the boot for dampness as this will hold any previous water penitration and rot both pump connections since they are encased in the foam.
Body work is primarily ali so no rust, just check the rear arches as they are metal but mine are spotless.
Gearboxs are bullet proof Ive been told by people in the know! just change the gearbox oil every 30k miles which again I have done and is easy DIY!
TBH Im supprised others have not cottoned onto the car as once its clean and lowered (lowering links which take 1/2 hr to fit are only £120!) the cars look awsome.
Personally I would not go for the 350 as it wont give the same roar as the V8 500 and whilst its not alot slower in outright speed it does lack the 500's torque. Again the 500 engine if routinely DIY services is bullet proof since its so understressed!
HAndling is great but a little weird to start with as the car covers up its weight so well, no rolling in the corners or diving under brakes etc.
All in all a great cat IMHO!
SL65 next year once I have finished paying off my old Monaro cost after being ripped off by .... ops cant say here!
Edited by S800VXR on Thursday 11th August 19:12
Anyone that thinks running an R230 is going to be remotely cheap is living in cloud-cuckoo land - they can be ruinous when things start to go wrong.
I try to keep my 2002 SL500 in perfect running order (every last thing works, every switch, every gizmo) and I do as much as possible myself (do all my own brake discs/pads, change all plugs/filters myself before the servicing) and yet my car (not including fuel, insurance or tax) cost me £9000 last year (and that's not including the £2000 or so it would have cost to replace the SBC pump (Merc sorted that)).
We are talking £850 for a PAS/ABC tandem plug, £1150 for a shock, electronic boxes, heater controllers for example. OK, you can get recon shocks from Arnott Industries in the USA but they're exchange, delivery is not quick or cheap.
Last month the car cost me another £2000.
£150 a corner for tyres? What the hell tyres are you putting on for that? Event were cheapest for quality tyres for me last year (255/18 front, 285/18 rear, £840 (Continental Sport Contact 3s in MO fitment).
Remember that it's a group 50 insurance car too.
Watch out for the dreaded fuel tank baffle that was fitted in late 2002 onwards. The welds on these break leaving you with a horrendous clunk/clang under acceleration/braking. Budget about £2500 to get this fixed.
The killer is the price of parts - mine is still looked after by Mercedes - over 3 years old the labour drops to £65/hour which is not bad. But the parts are a ballache - anything you can't source elsewhere and you're stuck, and MB don't do big trade discounts. Consumables that you can get from factors or GSF are often cheap as chips.
I don't like ABC at all - it's a great idea but the price of parts is, again, huge. Common faults are the shocks leaking, pump failing, valve blocks leaking, washers leaking on valve blocks (easy DIY fix) and (this is such poor design) the balljoints on the bottom of the shock struts wearing out. You guesssed it: new shock required at £1150. + VAT.
Most jobs will need STAR, and other stuff is complex - you cannot for example do your own brake fluid or bleed it due to the pressures.
Engines and (5 speed) gearboxes are pretty bombproof.
Fuel economy - overall (over the last 20000 miles) 23mpg. High teens if you're pressing on on country roads. My last job was over winter in the town where I live, 2.5 miles each way, and I was seeing 5.8mpg on that one
I'm not trying to paint a dismal picture, I love my SL, but don't for one minute think you can run one for Mondeo money. You might fall lucky and nothing ever go wrong, but if it does you will be in for a world of massive bills - even if you are "trade" you are still going to be needing parts from MB. Also bear in mind that if you are outside the MB dealer network that electronic "black boxes" cannot be returned if you they don't fix the fault.
I try to keep my 2002 SL500 in perfect running order (every last thing works, every switch, every gizmo) and I do as much as possible myself (do all my own brake discs/pads, change all plugs/filters myself before the servicing) and yet my car (not including fuel, insurance or tax) cost me £9000 last year (and that's not including the £2000 or so it would have cost to replace the SBC pump (Merc sorted that)).
We are talking £850 for a PAS/ABC tandem plug, £1150 for a shock, electronic boxes, heater controllers for example. OK, you can get recon shocks from Arnott Industries in the USA but they're exchange, delivery is not quick or cheap.
Last month the car cost me another £2000.
£150 a corner for tyres? What the hell tyres are you putting on for that? Event were cheapest for quality tyres for me last year (255/18 front, 285/18 rear, £840 (Continental Sport Contact 3s in MO fitment).
Remember that it's a group 50 insurance car too.
Watch out for the dreaded fuel tank baffle that was fitted in late 2002 onwards. The welds on these break leaving you with a horrendous clunk/clang under acceleration/braking. Budget about £2500 to get this fixed.
The killer is the price of parts - mine is still looked after by Mercedes - over 3 years old the labour drops to £65/hour which is not bad. But the parts are a ballache - anything you can't source elsewhere and you're stuck, and MB don't do big trade discounts. Consumables that you can get from factors or GSF are often cheap as chips.
I don't like ABC at all - it's a great idea but the price of parts is, again, huge. Common faults are the shocks leaking, pump failing, valve blocks leaking, washers leaking on valve blocks (easy DIY fix) and (this is such poor design) the balljoints on the bottom of the shock struts wearing out. You guesssed it: new shock required at £1150. + VAT.
Most jobs will need STAR, and other stuff is complex - you cannot for example do your own brake fluid or bleed it due to the pressures.
Engines and (5 speed) gearboxes are pretty bombproof.
Fuel economy - overall (over the last 20000 miles) 23mpg. High teens if you're pressing on on country roads. My last job was over winter in the town where I live, 2.5 miles each way, and I was seeing 5.8mpg on that one
I'm not trying to paint a dismal picture, I love my SL, but don't for one minute think you can run one for Mondeo money. You might fall lucky and nothing ever go wrong, but if it does you will be in for a world of massive bills - even if you are "trade" you are still going to be needing parts from MB. Also bear in mind that if you are outside the MB dealer network that electronic "black boxes" cannot be returned if you they don't fix the fault.
If the running costs described above are a bit steep, have you thought about a previous generation (R129) SL500?
It will never be cheap car to run, but will probably be slightly less expensive than an R230. Obviously the drive is less modern than an R230, but if you go one of the last ones (late 98 onwards), the engine/gearbox is the same as the first R230 SLs. I have a panoramic hardtop which is lovely, but less convenient than the R230 top.
The standard wheels are reasonably sized 245/17 , so "proper" Continental Sportcontact 3 tyres cost me about £160 a corner.
I am lucky enough to have a really good Merc Specialist nearby for realistic servicing.
Insurance is about £400 for 5000miles on a modern classic policy. I average about 23mpg , but have seen about 30 on a long run with cruise set to 75-80mph.
ADS (the R129 equivalent to ABC) was an option so any potential big bills can be avoided by buying a car without it.
Of course you may have you r heart set on an R230, which I would completely understand
It will never be cheap car to run, but will probably be slightly less expensive than an R230. Obviously the drive is less modern than an R230, but if you go one of the last ones (late 98 onwards), the engine/gearbox is the same as the first R230 SLs. I have a panoramic hardtop which is lovely, but less convenient than the R230 top.
The standard wheels are reasonably sized 245/17 , so "proper" Continental Sportcontact 3 tyres cost me about £160 a corner.
I am lucky enough to have a really good Merc Specialist nearby for realistic servicing.
Insurance is about £400 for 5000miles on a modern classic policy. I average about 23mpg , but have seen about 30 on a long run with cruise set to 75-80mph.
ADS (the R129 equivalent to ABC) was an option so any potential big bills can be avoided by buying a car without it.
Of course you may have you r heart set on an R230, which I would completely understand
Chris. Thanks for the suggestion. So I have tried one R129, very early 500SL but it was a well looked after car. However it disappointed me. Didn't feel like it had the horsepower it does, and I was never sold on the styling or the cloth roof. I realise it would make a much better suggestion but it's not for me.
The other poster whose name I can't read right now, thanks for the comments and to some extent I am aware of all of what you've said apart from the ball joint design issue. The question is how frequent are the failures you describe, especially as I'm doing maybe 7500 miles a year. Potentially less if I think it can't handle it and I'd get a cheap runabout but prefer not to. For example, I can occasionally budget a new shock as just an expected cost. But replacing them all and then the pump, all in close proximity obviously would be ruinous - but I'd have to be very unlucky and have bought a stinker. Obviously it's a risk that's there but If I don't take it i'll never know. And the key is, how frequent are the failures? Are these as unreliable as other late 90s Mercedes? From what I read ABC failures seem normal, but are also not the kind of thing to fail repeatedly again and again and again. Like I say I can afford the odd one-off especially if I get a good purchase price, but if it's every few months even with minimal usage that's a problem and that's what i'm trying to find out.
Tyres - the 18s can be had for £163 (front, Avon) and £188 (rear, Falken) currently in those sizes so I have slightly underestimated, although maybe tyres on 17s are less.
The depreciation is another factor that to some extent affects how much I can spare for maintenance. Does loss of 20% a year seem reasonable on an early car? SLs in general seem to hold value well which at least covers some of those running costs.
The other poster whose name I can't read right now, thanks for the comments and to some extent I am aware of all of what you've said apart from the ball joint design issue. The question is how frequent are the failures you describe, especially as I'm doing maybe 7500 miles a year. Potentially less if I think it can't handle it and I'd get a cheap runabout but prefer not to. For example, I can occasionally budget a new shock as just an expected cost. But replacing them all and then the pump, all in close proximity obviously would be ruinous - but I'd have to be very unlucky and have bought a stinker. Obviously it's a risk that's there but If I don't take it i'll never know. And the key is, how frequent are the failures? Are these as unreliable as other late 90s Mercedes? From what I read ABC failures seem normal, but are also not the kind of thing to fail repeatedly again and again and again. Like I say I can afford the odd one-off especially if I get a good purchase price, but if it's every few months even with minimal usage that's a problem and that's what i'm trying to find out.
Tyres - the 18s can be had for £163 (front, Avon) and £188 (rear, Falken) currently in those sizes so I have slightly underestimated, although maybe tyres on 17s are less.
The depreciation is another factor that to some extent affects how much I can spare for maintenance. Does loss of 20% a year seem reasonable on an early car? SLs in general seem to hold value well which at least covers some of those running costs.
Still looking. Decided that I want an SL350. Does anyone else think people are asking too much for early SLs? My motor trader friend says they are. The question is, is he right? I am seeing 2003 model SL350/SL500s with under 40k miles generally up for the £17k mark. Whereas according to him these cars should be more like £14-15k. Any thoughts, anyone?
Pentoman said:
Still looking. Decided that I want an SL350. Does anyone else think people are asking too much for early SLs? My motor trader friend says they are. The question is, is he right? I am seeing 2003 model SL350/SL500s with under 40k miles generally up for the £17k mark. Whereas according to him these cars should be more like £14-15k. Any thoughts, anyone?
Id suggest the prices are seasonally effected as whilst you can use these in the winter with the hard top etc you generally buy one to drive topless...?S800VXR said:
Id suggest the prices are seasonally effected as whilst you can use these in the winter with the hard top etc you generally buy one to drive topless...?
Yet to by a drop-top so I'll see how the Market looks come winter if I'm still looking then. I really hope I'm not still looking then though. On that note, do you think these are ok to use in winter? Will it leak or will any seals be a problem?Had a ride in a 500 yesterday owned by a colleague.
Seemed to have an unsettling left-right motion going on at the back.
Is this normal? it's hard to describe but just felt like the back of the car was moving left and right when you went over bumps. Not something I've experienced in all the different sorts of cars I've tried. Car had 60k. Apart from that, it was lovely. Although the 500 seemed long geared and as if you'd be unlikely to get the full thrill out of it without being in license losing territory. So if the 350 is lower geared, that's another win for me (and should go part way to make up the 60bhp deficit too).
Seemed to have an unsettling left-right motion going on at the back.
Is this normal? it's hard to describe but just felt like the back of the car was moving left and right when you went over bumps. Not something I've experienced in all the different sorts of cars I've tried. Car had 60k. Apart from that, it was lovely. Although the 500 seemed long geared and as if you'd be unlikely to get the full thrill out of it without being in license losing territory. So if the 350 is lower geared, that's another win for me (and should go part way to make up the 60bhp deficit too).
Pentoman said:
Had a ride in a 500 yesterday owned by a colleague.
Seemed to have an unsettling left-right motion going on at the back.
Is this normal? it's hard to describe but just felt like the back of the car was moving left and right when you went over bumps. Not something I've experienced in all the different sorts of cars I've tried. Car had 60k. Apart from that, it was lovely. Although the 500 seemed long geared and as if you'd be unlikely to get the full thrill out of it without being in license losing territory. So if the 350 is lower geared, that's another win for me (and should go part way to make up the 60bhp deficit too).
I have experienced this on occasion, could potentially be tramlining or uneven tyre wear. A full alligment and geo check may solve this.Seemed to have an unsettling left-right motion going on at the back.
Is this normal? it's hard to describe but just felt like the back of the car was moving left and right when you went over bumps. Not something I've experienced in all the different sorts of cars I've tried. Car had 60k. Apart from that, it was lovely. Although the 500 seemed long geared and as if you'd be unlikely to get the full thrill out of it without being in license losing territory. So if the 350 is lower geared, that's another win for me (and should go part way to make up the 60bhp deficit too).
Dog Star said:
£150 a corner for tyres? What the hell tyres are you putting on for that? Event were cheapest for quality tyres for me last year (255/18 front, 285/18 rear, £840 (Continental Sport Contact 3s in MO fitment).
I don't like ABC at all - it's a great idea but the price of parts is, again, huge. Common faults are the shocks leaking, pump failing, valve blocks leaking, washers leaking on valve blocks (easy DIY fix) and (this is such poor design) the balljoints on the bottom of the shock struts wearing out. You guesssed it: new shock required at £1150. + VAT.
I paid ~£150 for the above tyre sizes in Falken FK-452 from Camskill/Black Circles, no complaints here with their quality. Would be more than happy to buy again, not as good as the PZeros in the dry but better in the wet.I don't like ABC at all - it's a great idea but the price of parts is, again, huge. Common faults are the shocks leaking, pump failing, valve blocks leaking, washers leaking on valve blocks (easy DIY fix) and (this is such poor design) the balljoints on the bottom of the shock struts wearing out. You guesssed it: new shock required at £1150. + VAT.
Rears 285/35/18 (Camskill) - £159
http://www.camskill.co.uk/m61b0s334p6225/FALKEN_TY...
Fronts 255/40/18 (My Tyres) - £135
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Orde...
Prices as of 06 Sep 2011 (not fitted).
Also regarding the shocks, please take a look at this thread I just posted up.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0...
I'm sure I only feel this sensation on one road, my friend also experiences the same phenomena in his Clio 182.
After putting my car up on the ramps, it appears that the inside of the tyres is wearing faster than they should. I have been told this can be rectified by changing the toe bolts and performing a full alignment check.
After putting my car up on the ramps, it appears that the inside of the tyres is wearing faster than they should. I have been told this can be rectified by changing the toe bolts and performing a full alignment check.
I have mine from new, (recent pic here) an have had no mechanical issues whatsoever since I picked it up from the dealer in July 2003. I have not tried parking it outside and it does not see winter, but it has been surprisingly reliable The point about parts is true, though. My wife kerbed it under the front, and it turned out that its a single, huge part, not a spoiler. $3500. Not cheap at all.
Gouki said:
I'm sure I only feel this sensation on one road, my friend also experiences the same phenomena in his Clio 182.
After putting my car up on the ramps, it appears that the inside of the tyres is wearing faster than they should. I have been told this can be rectified by changing the toe bolts and performing a full alignment check.
I just borrowed my mother's 2008 Audi TT convertible and It did the same thing, the rear moving with a left-right sensation (but not quite as bad).After putting my car up on the ramps, it appears that the inside of the tyres is wearing faster than they should. I have been told this can be rectified by changing the toe bolts and performing a full alignment check.
It must be a factor of convertible cars. I haven't noticed it on other convertibles I've driven but they've always been older with smaller wheels.
Thanks for the interesting read on the SL running costs. I'm after a 350 R230 and have a question or two. The fuel baffle problem, does that affect 2006 models, would it be covered by warranty as clearly its a design fault? The shock prices, would they be less for a 350 than 500?
Finally, I am looking at one that has a slight oil weep just under the rocker, its running at just over 83-5deg on the temp gauge, is there a serious problem looming, my merc specialist garage seems to think its normal and just the breather or overflow from topping up? Many thanks in anticipation.
Finally, I am looking at one that has a slight oil weep just under the rocker, its running at just over 83-5deg on the temp gauge, is there a serious problem looming, my merc specialist garage seems to think its normal and just the breather or overflow from topping up? Many thanks in anticipation.
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