Towing Limits

[therealpigdog]

Just wondering if anyone knows much about towing limits etc.

I have a 2003 Audi A6 Avant 1.9tdi and am looking at getting a caravan, but a little bit confused by the towing limits etc.

Parkers guide says that the Braked Towing weight is 1600kg ( Parkers Guide), and I'm looking at getting a caravan with a MTPLM of 1565kg, so in theory should be ok, but have read various talk about 85% of kerb weight, which gives a figure of 1380kg (85% of 1624kg).

Would I be legal to tow this caravan? Am I technically legal, but not advisable? Or am I ok? If it makes any difference it is a single axle van, and not a particularly huge one (Swift Challenger 530 2006).

Cheers,

Phil

[redgriff500]

On my van (haven't checked on my car) there is a very clear plate under the bonnet giving towing weight. I'm fairly sure its in car handbooks too.

I sure as hell wouldn't rely on Parkers.

Any decent sized trailer / caravan has a braking system inbuilt.

Bear in mind you'll have some items in the caravan so you need some allowance for that too.

[oldcynic]

Definitely check the vehicle handbook as there's not much between the Parkers figure and your MTPLM figure - the towing weights vary from one model to the next. If you can't find a figure check with Audi.

The 85% figure seems to be recognised for comfortable & safe towing whereas the plated weights give the legal requirements. You can maintain this by not filling the caravan with luggage (MTPLM is the maximum laden weight I believe). Put your luggage in the boot or in a roofbox instead to reduce your chance of appearing on the travel news in relation to lane closures & jacknifed caravan.

[papercup]

My car handles significantly worse if I load the tow car up with weight (in the boot especially, as its above the axle), instead of putting it on the trailer.

[littlebasher]

oldcynic said:

Definitely check the vehicle handbook as there's not much between the Parkers figure and your MTPLM figure - the towing weights vary from one model to the next. If you can't find a figure check with Audi.

The 85% figure seems to be recognised for comfortable & safe towing whereas the plated weights give the legal requirements. You can maintain this by not filling the caravan with luggage (MTPLM is the maximum laden weight I believe). Put your luggage in the boot or in a roofbox instead to reduce your chance of appearing on the travel news in relation to lane closures & jacknifed caravan.

85% is a guideline for beginners and well out of date IMO (came from an era of drum brakes), perfectly legal to tow all the way up to 100%.

The OPs car and caravan combination look fine to me, but if he's unsure that it's 1600kgs he should take a look at his VIN plate.

[GAjon]

Try the Camping and Caravan club web site, I'm pretty sure they have a car to van match section which is accessible to non members, look in the new to caravans section.

[therealpigdog]

littlebasher said:

85% is a guideline for beginners and well out of date IMO (came from an era of drum brakes), perfectly legal to tow all the way up to 100%.

The OPs car and caravan combination look fine to me, but if he's unsure that it's 1600kgs he should take a look at his VIN plate.

Max braked towing weight is 1800kg (checked on the car) so perfectly legal, although it would appear that if the caravan is fully loaded to its max permitted load, then not ideal as it is pretty much 100% of the kerbweight. Shouldn't be a problem as we tend to pack light (used to tents and a TT or Yaris!) and can put anything heavy in the car (just the two of us and three dogs so plenty of room), and so something we will have to be mindful of.

Of course it does give me an excuse to look for a better tow car once funds permit (expect to see a what car thread!).

[jagracer]

Forget the 85% thing, that's a recommendation not law. Just make sure you are within the towing weight and gross train mass and don't overload any of the axles so proper weight distribution is paramount.

[littlebasher]

doogz said:

Do you mean "rides" or have you actually exploited the handling of your car whilst towing a trailer?

I know what he means though, my caravan is better behaved when I move the heavy stuff from the car into the caravan.

It's also far more stable when towed at slightly above the legal max speed, but I'll leave the rights and wrongs of that to another discussion.

[thinfourth2]

littlebasher said:

85% is a guideline for beginners and well out of date IMO (came from an era of drum brakes), perfectly legal to tow all the way up to 100%.

175% for the landrover defender

2000Kg tow car
3500Kg trailer

or 200% if you get linked brakes which are rare as fook

[Norfolk Enchance]

http://www.whattowcar.com/

[littlebasher]

Norfolk Enchance said:

http://www.whattowcar.com/

I like that site, but the trouble is that it uses Dutch specs for the car towing weights.

For example, UK spec late Derv Sportage had a towing limit of 1800kgs. Johnny foreigner had to make do with a mere 1600kgs and is reflected on that website. Same applies for a few other cars on there.

[littlebasher]

doogz said:

Fair enough, so the caravan rides better, and is more stable. Makes sense. Same with horse trailers IME, they're less likely to bounce about or wander with a horse in. I didn't get that from him talking about how his car handles when towing though.

Perhaps he's going to put in a few cheeky laps of the ring on the way to his campsite!

I wonder if any rules exist about that? Extra points to any 911 owners who can drive into the back of it and park it inside.

[Glade]

When did you get your licence? Post 1997 has more restrictions.

Manufacturer's towing weight is only what the car CAN tow e.g up a 12% incline etc... Legal limits may be different.

MAM - max authorised mass is important. Legally it doesn't matter if the actual load is less than the MAM - it goes on the plated weight. it is possible to get trailers "downplated" to match a car. Just don't overload the trailer!

Unladen weight of tow car is important.

Can't tow anything over 750kg without having a braked trailer.

After 1997 can't tow a train weight over 3500kg. Without trailer test (B+E categories on licence) can't tow a trailer with MAM > unladen weight of tow car.

Edited by Glade on Friday 12th August 14:26

[therealpigdog]

Glade said:

When did you get your licence? Post 1997 has more restrictions.

I got my licence before '97 so don't need any further tests etc.

Glade said:

Manufacturer's towing weight is only what the car CAN tow e.g up a 12% incline etc... Legal limits may be different.

MAM - max authorised mass is important. Legally it doesn't matter if the actual load is less than the MAM - it goes on the plated weight. it is possible to get trailers "downplated" to match a car. Just don't overload the trailer!

Unladen weight of tow car is important.

Can't tow anything over 750kg without having a braked trailer.

After 1997 can't tow a train weight over 3500kg. Without trailer test (B+E categories on licence) can't tow a trailer with MAM > unladen weight of tow car.

The unladen weight of the towcar is 1540kg. It has a maximum braked towing limit of 1800kg. The weight of the unloaded caravan is 1360kg and it has a maximum permitted load mass of 1565kg (MTPLM is presumably the same as MAM). I can't find any reference to the gross train weight but would expect that we're going to be ok.

Its a 2006 caravan, so is braked and presumably with a decent modern set up.

I'm 99% certain that it is legal, although perhaps not ideal, and as I've said it gives an excuse to continue looking at getting something a little bit bigger so that we are well within the limits.

Thanks to everyone who has helped - much appreciated.

[jagracer]

therealpigdog said:

The unladen weight of the towcar is 1540kg. It has a maximum braked towing limit of 1800kg. The weight of the unloaded caravan is 1360kg and it has a maximum permitted load mass of 1565kg (MTPLM is presumably the same as MAM). I can't find any reference to the gross train weight but would expect that we're going to be ok.

Its a 2006 caravan, so is braked and presumably with a decent modern set up.

I'm 99% certain that it is legal, although perhaps not ideal, and as I've said it gives an excuse to continue looking at getting something a little bit bigger so that we are well within the limits.

Thanks to everyone who has helped - much appreciated.

It doesn't matter what the MAM of the trailer is as long as you don't physically go over the gross train mass and of course individual authorised mass of the car or trailer. My Landcruiser can tow a max of 2800kg but I regularly tow a trailer with a MAM of 3200kg but never load it to that weight.

[Glade]

Some links

What you can tow with a pre-97 licence.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...

Towing with vehicles <3500kg.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...

direct.gov.uk said:

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

When I read that now, it doesn't look like pre-97 Cat C licenced drivers, are allowed to drive a car/trailer combination with trailer MAM > unladen weight, unless they have the E category on their licence... confirmed by...

direct.gov.uk said:

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM
Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

Though it's Friday afternoon and I might not be reading it right!
It doesn't mention the trailer having to be braked, so what other info is missing...

Certainly for the op caravan MAM of 1600kg is <= unladen vehicle weight of 1600kg. And the train weight is <3500kg so it's legal on the most basic driving licence.

Edited by Glade on Friday 12th August 15:56

[R0G]

jagracer said:

Forget the 85% thing, that's a recommendation not law. Just make sure you are within the towing weight and gross train mass and don't overload any of the axles so proper weight distribution is paramount.

as said - not law - but it is for safety which is a higher consideration than law
trailer heavier than towing vehicle can get the tail wagging the dog

the 85% refers to the difference in actual weights

to the OP - I assume you have a B+E licence?

[R0G]

therealpigdog said:

Just wondering if anyone knows much about towing limits etc.

I have a 2003 Audi A6 Avant 1.9tdi and am looking at getting a caravan, but a little bit confused by the towing limits etc.

Parkers guide says that the Braked Towing weight is 1600kg ( Parkers Guide), and I'm looking at getting a caravan with a MTPLM of 1565kg, so in theory should be ok, but have read various talk about 85% of kerb weight, which gives a figure of 1380kg (85% of 1624kg).

Would I be legal to tow this caravan? Am I technically legal, but not advisable? Or am I ok? If it makes any difference it is a single axle van, and not a particularly huge one (Swift Challenger 530 2006).

Cheers,

Phil

1600 + 15% = 1920
If the towing vehicle actually weighs 1920 and the caravan actually weighs 1600 then that is ok
Gotta watch the towing ball weight but if caravan loaded evenly then it should be ok

[inVINCEable]

therealpigdog said:

Just wondering if anyone knows much about towing limits etc.

I have a 2003 Audi A6 Avant 1.9tdi and am looking at getting a caravan

Phil

.