Nitron Spring rates
Discussion
Am now contemplating a change to nitrons. Anyone care to comment on what they think are the most suitable spring rates for them and why.
Thinking of 400 front and 325 rear, or 425 front and 300 rear.
Car is a 4.5 LW on 18" spider alloys. I want more comfort, more grip, better cornering and I don't want damage over speed bumps and wheels rubbing on wheelarches or anymore tramlining on the motorway, although I think the last one is more to do with toe and camber than dampers/springs.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who has 18" and nitrons views.
Tried a search but most of reports are what people are about to do rather than how it turned out.
Currently while (spirited) driving I have few complaints about the handling of the car compared to some here. I've never had much diving at the front on braking. I've only let the rear end go once when I wasn't expecting it, my main complaint seems to be one that's never been mentioned which is a little too much understeer at the front.
Thinking of 400 front and 325 rear, or 425 front and 300 rear.
Car is a 4.5 LW on 18" spider alloys. I want more comfort, more grip, better cornering and I don't want damage over speed bumps and wheels rubbing on wheelarches or anymore tramlining on the motorway, although I think the last one is more to do with toe and camber than dampers/springs.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who has 18" and nitrons views.
Tried a search but most of reports are what people are about to do rather than how it turned out.
Currently while (spirited) driving I have few complaints about the handling of the car compared to some here. I've never had much diving at the front on braking. I've only let the rear end go once when I wasn't expecting it, my main complaint seems to be one that's never been mentioned which is a little too much understeer at the front.
No matter how you go about it, if you go Nitrons you'll get great handling as you already know. But the ride will suffer, how much you can take is what you need to make sure you mention when you get them configured for you.
It would be awesome, if someone could supply electronically adjustable springs for the nitrons... so touch of a button, you get some comfort back, and flick again and the nitrons come back into full effect.... maybe strip the damn thing off a 3000GT... mmmm....
It would be awesome, if someone could supply electronically adjustable springs for the nitrons... so touch of a button, you get some comfort back, and flick again and the nitrons come back into full effect.... maybe strip the damn thing off a 3000GT... mmmm....
[quote=SXS ] No matter how you go about it, if you go Nitrons you'll get great handling as you already know. But the ride will suffer, [/quote]
I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one.
I have a custom front pair built to give increased turn in and avoid wash out of the front with 450lb front springs. (missed the sharp turn-in of my previous Elise!)
Recently added the rear pair which are standard Nitron/Joolz Cerbie offering which I think are 300lb springs (maybe 350).
The ride is far better than with the standard dampers - no question!!!
Handling is fantastic. I played around with the adjustment quite a bit until I was happy with the performance/ride compromise. I was originally running the fronts a quite bit harder & it did rattle your teeth when you hit a nasty pot hole, but this stopped when I eased them off. Front body roll didn't suffer as a result either.
Currently running 8 clicks from fully soft on the front, and 6 clicks rear. Front ride height 130mm, rear 145mm (taken from chassis to road).
My work colleague with whom I share a lift has experienced pre & post Nitrons and is frequently commenting on how supple the new suspension is.
Julian, talk to Joolz and he will sort your requirements - amazed at how well he interpreted mine.
>> Edited by Buster4.2 on Sunday 6th June 19:40
I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one.
I have a custom front pair built to give increased turn in and avoid wash out of the front with 450lb front springs. (missed the sharp turn-in of my previous Elise!)
Recently added the rear pair which are standard Nitron/Joolz Cerbie offering which I think are 300lb springs (maybe 350).
The ride is far better than with the standard dampers - no question!!!
Handling is fantastic. I played around with the adjustment quite a bit until I was happy with the performance/ride compromise. I was originally running the fronts a quite bit harder & it did rattle your teeth when you hit a nasty pot hole, but this stopped when I eased them off. Front body roll didn't suffer as a result either.
Currently running 8 clicks from fully soft on the front, and 6 clicks rear. Front ride height 130mm, rear 145mm (taken from chassis to road).
My work colleague with whom I share a lift has experienced pre & post Nitrons and is frequently commenting on how supple the new suspension is.
Julian, talk to Joolz and he will sort your requirements - amazed at how well he interpreted mine.
>> Edited by Buster4.2 on Sunday 6th June 19:40
Are you telling me the ride gets softer than standard with Nitrons?
Thats totally incorrect.
The ride quality does suffer, its a racing mono-shock. The overall ride handling improves, but its a stiffer setup! And that equals a degradation of ride quality compared to standard.
Quality - as in comfort. What did you think I meant?
Unless the existing suspension was already shafted, then of course you will notice an improvement. But new standard TVR suspension against new Nitron suspension is basically like comparing a waterless sponge against a damp sponge....
But hands down, the damp sponge sticks to the road like a train on tracks
Thats totally incorrect.
The ride quality does suffer, its a racing mono-shock. The overall ride handling improves, but its a stiffer setup! And that equals a degradation of ride quality compared to standard.
Quality - as in comfort. What did you think I meant?
Unless the existing suspension was already shafted, then of course you will notice an improvement. But new standard TVR suspension against new Nitron suspension is basically like comparing a waterless sponge against a damp sponge....
But hands down, the damp sponge sticks to the road like a train on tracks
In my experience Nitron give a better compromise between body control and harshness than some cheaper dampers, so if you keep the overall rates the same you might well find they're more comfortable than the original equipment as well as giving better body control. But you'll probably want to stiffen the suspension up too to improve the body control, in which case you might find you're no more comfortable than standard, or maybe even worse.
Julian,
We have Nitrons & springs rated about 400 up front, 350 rear, rear arb off, on 17" racelines/SO2s. Nitrons set 6 clicks from fully soft now. Joospeed did all the fitting & setup, and as I've not tracked the car yet, I haven't been tempted to experiment much.
Ride is excellent, better than AVOs/standard spring combination we had previously. Handling ditto, enough to stay well ahead of a Audi V8 quattro that was seriously trying on twisty/crap surfaced stuff between Latimer and Chalfont St Giles
Only downside is that I'm seriously tempted to get stickier tyres for the next set: PZero Nero or silly Michelin semi-track tyres, or some such.
We have Nitrons & springs rated about 400 up front, 350 rear, rear arb off, on 17" racelines/SO2s. Nitrons set 6 clicks from fully soft now. Joospeed did all the fitting & setup, and as I've not tracked the car yet, I haven't been tempted to experiment much.
Ride is excellent, better than AVOs/standard spring combination we had previously. Handling ditto, enough to stay well ahead of a Audi V8 quattro that was seriously trying on twisty/crap surfaced stuff between Latimer and Chalfont St Giles
Only downside is that I'm seriously tempted to get stickier tyres for the next set: PZero Nero or silly Michelin semi-track tyres, or some such.
lol I'm here, but hardly ever answer the fone on m,ondays cos I'm on my own, no Vix in the office on mondays!
Ash : your ride may well be worse than before, but there again you asked for a particular set of criteria from your rear dampers/springs to cope with the rear tyres and wheel combination you'd bought. You can have it softer if you want, but you'd ge greater roll induced camber loss, the outer tyre edges would scrape the arches, the car would bottom more easily on rough roads etc. even with aftermarket stuff there are compromises to be made.
If however you think it's still too stiff for you we can start going back down on the spring rates until you think you've got the right compromise for you .. that's the beauty of adjustables you can get teh compromise close to what *you* want rather than what anyone else says you have to have .. but it's still a compromise ..
Ash : your ride may well be worse than before, but there again you asked for a particular set of criteria from your rear dampers/springs to cope with the rear tyres and wheel combination you'd bought. You can have it softer if you want, but you'd ge greater roll induced camber loss, the outer tyre edges would scrape the arches, the car would bottom more easily on rough roads etc. even with aftermarket stuff there are compromises to be made.
If however you think it's still too stiff for you we can start going back down on the spring rates until you think you've got the right compromise for you .. that's the beauty of adjustables you can get teh compromise close to what *you* want rather than what anyone else says you have to have .. but it's still a compromise ..
Interesting to see how soft people are running their Nitrons.
I spent most of the winter with mine set on 20 clicks from soft, so the ride was a little harsh
Now got them back down to 14 clicks from soft and its better, but perhaps I'll try going even lower.....
I also disconnected the rear anti-roll bar, which helped traction out of corners.
I spent most of the winter with mine set on 20 clicks from soft, so the ride was a little harsh
Now got them back down to 14 clicks from soft and its better, but perhaps I'll try going even lower.....
I also disconnected the rear anti-roll bar, which helped traction out of corners.
simonsparrow said:
Interesting to see how soft people are running their Nitrons.
I spent most of the winter with mine set on 20 clicks from soft, so the ride was a little harsh
I think my Cerb had them about 7 or 8 from softest when I'd finished with it. The Tuscan's currently set at 4 from softest, I think (have yet to touch them), but I think I'll be trying it a couple of clicks softer still once I get everything else sorted out.[quote=SXS ]Are you telling me the ride gets softer than standard with Nitrons?
Thats totally incorrect.
The ride quality does suffer, its a racing mono-shock. The overall ride handling improves, but its a stiffer setup! And that equals a degradation of ride quality compared to standard.
Quality - as in comfort. What did you think I meant?
[/quote]
That's my experience! Definately more compliant than the standard shocks that were replaced and it's running a lower ride height. Don't think the std ones were knackered either as no comment when it was serviced just before they were replaced.
I thought the Nitrons had a very low nose force that contributed to the good ride quality.
I guess from Joolz's comments your rear shocks are set up very differently to mine.
Thats totally incorrect.
The ride quality does suffer, its a racing mono-shock. The overall ride handling improves, but its a stiffer setup! And that equals a degradation of ride quality compared to standard.
Quality - as in comfort. What did you think I meant?
[/quote]
That's my experience! Definately more compliant than the standard shocks that were replaced and it's running a lower ride height. Don't think the std ones were knackered either as no comment when it was serviced just before they were replaced.
I thought the Nitrons had a very low nose force that contributed to the good ride quality.
I guess from Joolz's comments your rear shocks are set up very differently to mine.
Joo, sorry I think I've misled ya, first of all, yes I requested the mega-stiff low comp setup you've done, with the geometry for the new wheels and larger than life tyres. All in the name of dragging, and total supreme ownership of getting away from the line quick! And it bloody works, as good as my 3000GT, not a wheelspin in sight, maybe a big hop or two, but the stiff nature and the wide tyres really do mate the horses on the tarmac like as if I've got 4 wheel drive in her! Soo much grip, and air/fuel flow now - she hops at speed too!!! Feckin awesome!!!! Although I wouldnt attempt it on a bend!
Buster, sorry for being a little awkward back there, I was merely basing my theory on most Nitron setups I've come across, I'm aware you can have it setup to a softer liking, but then whats the point of racing mono-shocks? hehe
Buster, sorry for being a little awkward back there, I was merely basing my theory on most Nitron setups I've come across, I'm aware you can have it setup to a softer liking, but then whats the point of racing mono-shocks? hehe
Okay update on the Nitrons. Slight muckup and 400 front and 325 (rather than the ordered 350) landed on my doorstep. After a quick call to guy decided to try it anyway. All four fitted in just under two hours. Very easy job with just a few pitfalls. Manual said don't completely remove the bolt that holds the top of the rear shock.
Of course I wanted to clean and grease it so took it right out. Cue ten minutes of swearing trying to push the entire rear suspension around until the bolt would finally go back in.
However all ordered parts fitted like a glove with no modification needed. All came adjusted to the exact size of the originals and ten clicks from soft. (nice touch)
Am now just waiting for the MOT before giving it a real tryout.
Of course I wanted to clean and grease it so took it right out. Cue ten minutes of swearing trying to push the entire rear suspension around until the bolt would finally go back in.
However all ordered parts fitted like a glove with no modification needed. All came adjusted to the exact size of the originals and ten clicks from soft. (nice touch)
Am now just waiting for the MOT before giving it a real tryout.
Okay, 24 hours after nitrons and back on the road. 400 front and 325 rear, both 10 clicks from soft. Absolutely no changes to the car setup, toe camber etc.
Tramlining has vanished to my amazement as I didn't think that was actually connected to the suspension just the 18" profile tyres and the alignment. However I'm obviously wrong here as I can now almost take my hands off the wheel in the slowlane of the A2/M25.
Rear, even on 325 has not grounded even on very bumpy country lanes, although only one bod in car and half a tank of fuel. Expressed my concerns on this to guy at nitrons who reassured me that even 325 is stronger than the original TVR setup.
Rear is very planted even with rear rollbar still on, and much less wheelspin on takeoff than before.
Front however is still work in progress, and I haven't quite worked it out. long undulating bumps in road at speed make the front of the car slowly oscillate up and down more than before as if theres too little damping. Potholes at slow speeds transmit through the car like someone hit the wheel with a sledgehammer. In this respect seems to be worse than original and damping seems not soft enough?
Unless wisdom from the group is forthcomming I will simply play, but not sure which way to turn the dial to improve this.
Tramlining has vanished to my amazement as I didn't think that was actually connected to the suspension just the 18" profile tyres and the alignment. However I'm obviously wrong here as I can now almost take my hands off the wheel in the slowlane of the A2/M25.
Rear, even on 325 has not grounded even on very bumpy country lanes, although only one bod in car and half a tank of fuel. Expressed my concerns on this to guy at nitrons who reassured me that even 325 is stronger than the original TVR setup.
Rear is very planted even with rear rollbar still on, and much less wheelspin on takeoff than before.
Front however is still work in progress, and I haven't quite worked it out. long undulating bumps in road at speed make the front of the car slowly oscillate up and down more than before as if theres too little damping. Potholes at slow speeds transmit through the car like someone hit the wheel with a sledgehammer. In this respect seems to be worse than original and damping seems not soft enough?
Unless wisdom from the group is forthcomming I will simply play, but not sure which way to turn the dial to improve this.
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