How long have we got?
Discussion
After reading some inspiring and heartbreaking stuff in this section over the last 3 years I am now in the situation that I need advice!
Whilst on a three week break around the world (holiday of a lifetime!) we got the dreaded phonecall! To cut a long story short the mother in law has terminal lung cancer that has spread to liver, lymph, brain and adrenal!
She was diagnosed 2 weeks ago and in currently only able to drink liquids and has a feeding syringe. She is now at home receieving palative care.
So the question is in peoples experiences how long have we got, I feel my duty is to support the wife,and make sure she sees as much of her mum as possible, I need to be realistic and make sure the wife is too.
I am jetlagged, at work and my head is a shed so some advice would be gratefully recieved!
Thanks
Just seen thread title god knows how that smiley got there could a mod delete the smiley not massively appropriate!
Whilst on a three week break around the world (holiday of a lifetime!) we got the dreaded phonecall! To cut a long story short the mother in law has terminal lung cancer that has spread to liver, lymph, brain and adrenal!
She was diagnosed 2 weeks ago and in currently only able to drink liquids and has a feeding syringe. She is now at home receieving palative care.
So the question is in peoples experiences how long have we got, I feel my duty is to support the wife,and make sure she sees as much of her mum as possible, I need to be realistic and make sure the wife is too.
I am jetlagged, at work and my head is a shed so some advice would be gratefully recieved!
Thanks
Just seen thread title god knows how that smiley got there could a mod delete the smiley not massively appropriate!
Edited by ANS2vrs370 on Monday 15th August 11:15
I think this is really something you need to discuss with your MIL doctor. I would take a guess that she realistically doesn't have much time left. It doesn't sound like she's got much fight if she has managed to get this advanced without seeking previous help.
It sounds like she has had a dramatic decline in her health and I fear this is reflective of the next few weeks.
Sorry to hear this
It sounds like she has had a dramatic decline in her health and I fear this is reflective of the next few weeks.
Sorry to hear this
Thanks guys it is strangely comforting to get input from here! From what I saw yesterday the fight is diminising.
The doctors wouldn't put a time on it they only said it won't be years but there was no need for us to rush home from holiday (2 weeks).
In recent developments the wife has been told to go on compassionate leave from Wednesday, and not come back until her mum improves or is no longer with us, by her boss who lost a relation in a similar way.
Sister in law and family are coming back from NZ for two weeks on Saturday. Looks like it could all happen quite quickly! Although I like to think I am worldly wise at 31 it would seem not! (MIL is 58 so nobody is prepared at all!)
Thanks again
The doctors wouldn't put a time on it they only said it won't be years but there was no need for us to rush home from holiday (2 weeks).
In recent developments the wife has been told to go on compassionate leave from Wednesday, and not come back until her mum improves or is no longer with us, by her boss who lost a relation in a similar way.
Sister in law and family are coming back from NZ for two weeks on Saturday. Looks like it could all happen quite quickly! Although I like to think I am worldly wise at 31 it would seem not! (MIL is 58 so nobody is prepared at all!)
Thanks again
As your dictor said, time is measured in weeks and days, not months and years. medicine cannot give an 'estimate' on life as it's so variable. I will say to you that one of the hardest things to do is to watch someone you care about deteorate so quickly. Particularly if food is not being consumed, the rate at which the body loses mass is visually disturbing. Someone can go from a healthy weight to being very thin/skeletal looking in a matter of a few days.
It can be very disturbing and distressing to see the skeleton within and that in itself can bring a whole package of thoughts and emotions to the surface. It is important that your family and particularly your MIL feel that she has a degree of control of what is happening to her. For your your wife to, this is very important.
Talk to the palliative team and the Mac nurses (assuming they are Mac nurses) about pain management and symptom management - to make sure that in your mind, she is as comfortable as she can be. You can go through this one of two ways. It can be a nightmare of feeling out of control and having no sense of involvement in this, or you can be a little bit more proactive and ask the questions you need answering for your own peace of mind. It's too late afterwards to ask what if - so if something does come up, get it asked and mentally ticked off.
Also talk about closure. It is important that your wife begins to address the fact her mother is dying. You know best the way to approach her and you need to think carefully about it, but there is a lot that can be done to support her in this knowledge that he mum is dying. And death, the word death is one that is final, so unavoidable that it is the one word we tend to steer clear of using. It's a balance between living in hope vs living with the reality of a situation. Perhaps the most practical way is to start living one day at a time. Live for the now, for this moment of time and more importantly than anything else and I know many other people on this forum have said the same thing, SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY. It is the most important thing of all. It's too cruel and too hard on life afterwards, to wish to go back and say what you've always wanted to say. So do it now.
It's hard to end posts about death and dying. Suffice to say I hope that the next few weeks and days are positive ones with some joy and happiness along the way. In death there can also be the best of memories and the most precious of moments. And you can only do your best to make that happen. Live through every moment, fully awake and aware of what is happening. As hard as it may be, it really helps now and afterwards.
It can be very disturbing and distressing to see the skeleton within and that in itself can bring a whole package of thoughts and emotions to the surface. It is important that your family and particularly your MIL feel that she has a degree of control of what is happening to her. For your your wife to, this is very important.
Talk to the palliative team and the Mac nurses (assuming they are Mac nurses) about pain management and symptom management - to make sure that in your mind, she is as comfortable as she can be. You can go through this one of two ways. It can be a nightmare of feeling out of control and having no sense of involvement in this, or you can be a little bit more proactive and ask the questions you need answering for your own peace of mind. It's too late afterwards to ask what if - so if something does come up, get it asked and mentally ticked off.
Also talk about closure. It is important that your wife begins to address the fact her mother is dying. You know best the way to approach her and you need to think carefully about it, but there is a lot that can be done to support her in this knowledge that he mum is dying. And death, the word death is one that is final, so unavoidable that it is the one word we tend to steer clear of using. It's a balance between living in hope vs living with the reality of a situation. Perhaps the most practical way is to start living one day at a time. Live for the now, for this moment of time and more importantly than anything else and I know many other people on this forum have said the same thing, SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY. It is the most important thing of all. It's too cruel and too hard on life afterwards, to wish to go back and say what you've always wanted to say. So do it now.
It's hard to end posts about death and dying. Suffice to say I hope that the next few weeks and days are positive ones with some joy and happiness along the way. In death there can also be the best of memories and the most precious of moments. And you can only do your best to make that happen. Live through every moment, fully awake and aware of what is happening. As hard as it may be, it really helps now and afterwards.
My mum died on November 14th last year from lung cancer. She was in pretty much the condition that your MIL is in three weeks beforehand. She was much more mobile though.
In my limited and sad experience, I would suggest that it's just days to go. Hopefully sooner rather than later. It's horrible watching and waiting for the inevitable.
Make her as comfortable as possible, let your wife spend as much or as little time as she wants with her. Use Macmillan and Marie Curie, they are truly wonderful people.
In my limited and sad experience, I would suggest that it's just days to go. Hopefully sooner rather than later. It's horrible watching and waiting for the inevitable.
Make her as comfortable as possible, let your wife spend as much or as little time as she wants with her. Use Macmillan and Marie Curie, they are truly wonderful people.
DMN thanks for your words of wisdom and knowledge I really appreciate them. I feel my journey will be nothing like yours and your thread was one of the first points of reference when thinking things through!
Tyre Smoke, this is my concern and how I get this accross to K, I am glad her boss has helped me out and told her to go away from Wednesday onwards, but as has been said I think I just need to come out with it!
Tyre Smoke, this is my concern and how I get this accross to K, I am glad her boss has helped me out and told her to go away from Wednesday onwards, but as has been said I think I just need to come out with it!
Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, just tell your wife as kindly as possible that her mum is not long for this world. Don't dress it up or flannel around the subject.
Her mum will be away with the fairies for most of the time with her pain management drugs. Don't expect too much cognitive behaviour.
Sad I know, but also get her affairs in order. Has she made a will? Does she have any instructions for her funeral? Heartbreaking stuff, but so much easier for those left behind to deal with 'afterwards'.
Your life is now on hold until hers is over. It's utterly horrible.
Her mum will be away with the fairies for most of the time with her pain management drugs. Don't expect too much cognitive behaviour.
Sad I know, but also get her affairs in order. Has she made a will? Does she have any instructions for her funeral? Heartbreaking stuff, but so much easier for those left behind to deal with 'afterwards'.
Your life is now on hold until hers is over. It's utterly horrible.
ANS2vrs370 said:
DMN thanks for your words of wisdom and knowledge I really appreciate them. I feel my journey will be nothing like yours and your thread was one of the first points of reference when thinking things through!
You're most welcome. You are right, it is a journey and one, that no matter the route, will be one that will be remembered. I'm glad that my thread helped in some way. It's nice to know that our big adventure can in some small way make a difference to someone else's life. I wish you all the very best.Mrs ADN has just got home and we had a good chat and is now feeling a fear and that she has to be with here mother all the time and is leaving tomorrow evening straight afterwork. She is being very level headed and is now talking about days/weeks not months/years which is good
Thanks for you thoughts and feedback and will update more if people would be willing to read!
Thanks for you thoughts and feedback and will update more if people would be willing to read!
Well a small update. Looks like the answer was about a week, MIL has been put on the Liverpool Care Pathway as of yesterday so 3-5 days max. Whole family is round and has come home from round the globe and it is heartbreaking. Mrs ADN is front line carer with FIL so getting pretty involved. The Mac and District nurses are amazing though!
She has made the funeral plans etc and has stated that she does not want to die at home so looking for a hospice bed. I have a feeling that as soon as she is in the hospice the fight may go completely and she will go!
She has made the funeral plans etc and has stated that she does not want to die at home so looking for a hospice bed. I have a feeling that as soon as she is in the hospice the fight may go completely and she will go!
The waiting around this time is some of the hardest waiting you will do. Grief knows no boundaries and no limits in terms of how it manifests itself in different peoples.
All you can do is be there - and especially for eachother. As the drugs slowly increase and the sedation is gently upped, there will come a point when you will say your goodbyes and at may well be before she dies. It is very hard for a family at that moment when they realise that for all intent purposes the one you love has now gone.
There is a process called terminal restlessness. It's helpful to be aware of it ( this is a brief clinical fact sheet, there is lots more on the net but it all says pretty much the same thing) http://www.arthurrankhouse.nhs.uk/documents/Factsh... as it can be distressing to watch, but it is all part of the process and is experienced by a fair number of people in some form or other. It is always good to be even a little prepared.
May her journey be a peaceful and calm one.
All you can do is be there - and especially for eachother. As the drugs slowly increase and the sedation is gently upped, there will come a point when you will say your goodbyes and at may well be before she dies. It is very hard for a family at that moment when they realise that for all intent purposes the one you love has now gone.
There is a process called terminal restlessness. It's helpful to be aware of it ( this is a brief clinical fact sheet, there is lots more on the net but it all says pretty much the same thing) http://www.arthurrankhouse.nhs.uk/documents/Factsh... as it can be distressing to watch, but it is all part of the process and is experienced by a fair number of people in some form or other. It is always good to be even a little prepared.
May her journey be a peaceful and calm one.
Really sorry to hear, thinking of you
I remember spending a week in and out of the hospital when we lost the FIL, was a very hard week, so many times we were told it would be time, and still he kept fighting
He went a week after they thought he might over night when we weren't there
We saw him afterwards we all went straight there after the phone call, it was very peaceful and I am really glad we did as you could see he was no longer suffering.
I remember spending a week in and out of the hospital when we lost the FIL, was a very hard week, so many times we were told it would be time, and still he kept fighting
He went a week after they thought he might over night when we weren't there
We saw him afterwards we all went straight there after the phone call, it was very peaceful and I am really glad we did as you could see he was no longer suffering.
My uncle lasted only 3 weeks after diagnosis of stage 4 Lung cancer (had spread from the spine, late diagnosis due to the fact he ignored back pain for months)
We had thought he'd have 6-8 weeks but pneumonia got him (as it so often does). So basically make sure she gets to spend all the time she can with her Mum now. We went to visit my Uncle but only my parents got to see him briefly, he was admitted to hospital on the morning of our visit and died two days later.
We had thought he'd have 6-8 weeks but pneumonia got him (as it so often does). So basically make sure she gets to spend all the time she can with her Mum now. We went to visit my Uncle but only my parents got to see him briefly, he was admitted to hospital on the morning of our visit and died two days later.
RemainAllHoof said:
bexVN said:
My uncle lasted only 3 weeks after diagnosis of stage 4 Lung cancer (had spread from the spine, late diagnosis due to the fact he ignored back pain for months)
Scary. What was the original cancer then?All I do know is realising stage 4 was really bad (no real chance of tx) but we still thought he was going to have a bit longer than he did. He was a very good man
bexVN said:
To be honest I can't remember as it was a few years ago now and everything happened so fast by the time the family got to grips with how serious it was.
All I do know is realising stage 4 was really bad (no real chance of tx) but we still thought he was going to have a bit longer than he did. He was a very good man
It does seem quite shocking the speed at which it took him.All I do know is realising stage 4 was really bad (no real chance of tx) but we still thought he was going to have a bit longer than he did. He was a very good man
It is quite shocking how some cancers do seem to only show themselves so late in the day.
Part of the 'package' of a late diagnosis is the sense of shock for those left behind. It really can seem to have come out of the blue with no time to prepare, let alone begin to come to terms with it. It often leaves in its wake a terrible sense of helplessness and emotional/mental shock (somewhat akin to PTSD) and that can last for a long time if unresolved.
What with death and the overloading that that brings, the initial shock(s) can be left unresolved. Sometimes they are far greater than the shock of death and it's aftermath. There are no right and wrong ways to grieve, but if after a time you still feel in a state of shock, then it's not a bad idea at all to think about sddressing the issues that it has brought up.
Part of the 'package' of a late diagnosis is the sense of shock for those left behind. It really can seem to have come out of the blue with no time to prepare, let alone begin to come to terms with it. It often leaves in its wake a terrible sense of helplessness and emotional/mental shock (somewhat akin to PTSD) and that can last for a long time if unresolved.
What with death and the overloading that that brings, the initial shock(s) can be left unresolved. Sometimes they are far greater than the shock of death and it's aftermath. There are no right and wrong ways to grieve, but if after a time you still feel in a state of shock, then it's not a bad idea at all to think about sddressing the issues that it has brought up.
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