Taking on a part-built kit - what are the pitfalls?
Discussion
I do this for a living and belive me there are so many things to look out for. I would be carefull on early robinhood series cars as they do require loads of extra work due to chassis design. I.m not saying that there not impossible to get through an iva, but you do need to do alot of work in the pedalbox and steering area.
Mark.
Mark.
If it was me I would be going into it with the intention of stripping it back to it's component parts and rebuilding as if starting from scratch. Maybe leave rivited panels but that would be it.
IVA inspectors I believe now like to see pictures to prove amateur build so it would help with that as well as making sure it complies with the latest regs.
Westfields and Tigers of all ages I would guess have passed IVA but I would get in touch with the relevant owners club to see if there were any particular changes that had to be made to earlier kits.
IVA inspectors I believe now like to see pictures to prove amateur build so it would help with that as well as making sure it complies with the latest regs.
Westfields and Tigers of all ages I would guess have passed IVA but I would get in touch with the relevant owners club to see if there were any particular changes that had to be made to earlier kits.
As has been said a part build can be a good or bad place to start.
Your ideal purchase would be the car built to some stage and a pile of boxes containing all the desirable bits required to complete the build...and all for not much money. It does happen.
The worst situation is taking on a part build when you yourself do not know much about building a kit. If you have some knowledge, or friends who have, you will be in a good position to know what level of work is required to complete a build and also negotiate a price accordingly.
VOSA now recognise that part builds are common in kitcars so there is now a box on the form asking if you started that way. This gets over the issues that some had where they could not demonstrate their amateur builder status (normally requiring a sequence of build photos).
Good luck
Steve
Your ideal purchase would be the car built to some stage and a pile of boxes containing all the desirable bits required to complete the build...and all for not much money. It does happen.
The worst situation is taking on a part build when you yourself do not know much about building a kit. If you have some knowledge, or friends who have, you will be in a good position to know what level of work is required to complete a build and also negotiate a price accordingly.
VOSA now recognise that part builds are common in kitcars so there is now a box on the form asking if you started that way. This gets over the issues that some had where they could not demonstrate their amateur builder status (normally requiring a sequence of build photos).
Good luck
Steve
rdodger said:
If it was me I would be going into it with the intention of stripping it back to it's component parts and rebuilding as if starting from scratch.
That's exactly what i did when i bought my Haldane, I'd rebuilt a kit previously to buying it and was aware of what was involved in taking on other peoples work, It's not to say that all other people don't do as good a job as you, but just be aware of what you may come across when you take one on.kitmark said:
I do this for a living and belive me there are so many things to look out for. I would be carefull on early robinhood series cars as they do require loads of extra work due to chassis design. I.m not saying that there not impossible to get through an iva, but you do need to do alot of work in the pedalbox and steering area.
Mark.
That sounds like a job I would enjoy!Mark.
At last I might like going to work!
Do you find it worthwhile cash wise and do you do more than one at a time, sorry if this is getting to inquisitive, just tell me to PO!
Agree with pulling apart and restarting though, that way you know where the wires go, are the right colour etc.
Always remember a rally imp back in the 70's where the guy wired everything with yellow wire. Great when he had a fault.....
kitmark said:
I do this for a living and belive me there are so many things to look out for. I would be carefull on early robinhood series cars as they do require loads of extra work due to chassis design. I.m not saying that there not impossible to get through an iva, but you do need to do alot of work in the pedalbox and steering area.
Mark.
Wholeheartedly endorse this comment see below.Mark.
Since retirement mu lifelong love of kit cars has reached new heights I am rebuilding, building and fettling seven currently. Mad as a bag of frogs that's me. No money involved I just enjoy the challenge.
I have a half built Robin Hood in IVA prep at the moment for my sins. Well the paperwork says Robin Hood but in the combined views of all the experts who have seen it it is a crap TJ Locost/Locust.
I took the car on because an acquaintance of many years standing bought it unseen and it is unbelievable badly half built. I am helping out.
It would DEFINITELY be easier to build a kit car from new from a genuine supplier who builds the kits properly and with a kit that is actually designed in accordance with the requirements of IVA.
You will NOT SAVE A PENNY by buying a half baked kit like this one. However much of a bargain it seems to be. I have found that it takes so long to put right the mistakes in the car already built in to the car, it is utterly self defeating. UTTERLY SELF DEFEATING!!
TAKE CARE IN BUYING UNCOMPLETED KITS that's my advice. GREAT CARE!
Now back to the bench!
As others have said I would expect to be buying the parts and do it all again.
I had a Robin Hood that the builder had welded the steering with a MIG welder with no gas and the welds looked like a bird had dropped it on, the car was totally unsafe.
By buying a project you save several thousand pounds if you choose wisely.
I had a Robin Hood that the builder had welded the steering with a MIG welder with no gas and the welds looked like a bird had dropped it on, the car was totally unsafe.
By buying a project you save several thousand pounds if you choose wisely.
Hi done it and got it through the IVA, mine was a 1988 westfield SE (chassis number 282) the following is what you need to think about:
1) It is a restoration AND kit car build. My Westfield was not designed for the IVA so you have to be very careful about the car/project you are buying. First thing I did was research what changes the company had made to their models and do you have to make the same changes ie are there any fundamental problems with the kit which will need extensive work. Luckily Westfield chassis was so good in 1988 no changes were needed but it was close! If you're not sure leave well alone. Quite a few kit car companies went bang when the SVA/IVA was introduced simply because of the changes they would have had to made.
2) Assume the kit is completely needed to be stripped down and redone. Anything else is a bargain. Mine I took back to rolling chassis and checked very carefully suspension and engine/gearbox.
3) If they say is 80% complete or whatever, halve that number as a base assumption (Mine was even less)
4) Take photos as you build, its so useful for the IVA and VOSA to have that build diary. They may or may not ask to see it but its handy to have. Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ORIGINAL RECEIPTS. I can't emphasis that enough. When I took it to VOSA to get registered they were interested in the original receipts not the ones I had collected in the build/restoration. You have to prove that it is yours legally.
5) The IVA manual is your guide to the build and if you can get hold of an original build manual then that will help but its worth a look online to see whats out there. Go through every requirement as you build and ensure it matches the requirements. Even after I had done this mine still failed first time but I was able to get it through after taking notes.
6) "old" usually fails: eg instruments/switches now have rounded edges old ones didn't eg nice old VDO instruments I had with the build failed, mini rocker switches failed. They all had to be surrounded to ensure that they could not be touched. Windscreens have to be EU marked the British mark is no longer allowed. Its things like this that cause the major headaches. Remember you cannot go back to the company and complain so you're on your own with that problem.
7) Fit only the things you need for the IVA - I left the roof off until it was safely back and registered. I also recommend taking it to a garage and having a mock MOT done prior to the test. A second pair of eyes to check the fundamentals was very useful and builds your confidence.
8) Finally its a real challenge but fun. I have ended up with a car which cost a lot less than buying a new kit and was far more than a "bolt together" job. You will have to fabricate parts and brackets, work with fiberglass (I had to fill in holes and respray), rewire or make your own loom, and so forth. Its great but it certainly isn't an easy option.
Hope that's helped.
Paul
1) It is a restoration AND kit car build. My Westfield was not designed for the IVA so you have to be very careful about the car/project you are buying. First thing I did was research what changes the company had made to their models and do you have to make the same changes ie are there any fundamental problems with the kit which will need extensive work. Luckily Westfield chassis was so good in 1988 no changes were needed but it was close! If you're not sure leave well alone. Quite a few kit car companies went bang when the SVA/IVA was introduced simply because of the changes they would have had to made.
2) Assume the kit is completely needed to be stripped down and redone. Anything else is a bargain. Mine I took back to rolling chassis and checked very carefully suspension and engine/gearbox.
3) If they say is 80% complete or whatever, halve that number as a base assumption (Mine was even less)
4) Take photos as you build, its so useful for the IVA and VOSA to have that build diary. They may or may not ask to see it but its handy to have. Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ORIGINAL RECEIPTS. I can't emphasis that enough. When I took it to VOSA to get registered they were interested in the original receipts not the ones I had collected in the build/restoration. You have to prove that it is yours legally.
5) The IVA manual is your guide to the build and if you can get hold of an original build manual then that will help but its worth a look online to see whats out there. Go through every requirement as you build and ensure it matches the requirements. Even after I had done this mine still failed first time but I was able to get it through after taking notes.
6) "old" usually fails: eg instruments/switches now have rounded edges old ones didn't eg nice old VDO instruments I had with the build failed, mini rocker switches failed. They all had to be surrounded to ensure that they could not be touched. Windscreens have to be EU marked the British mark is no longer allowed. Its things like this that cause the major headaches. Remember you cannot go back to the company and complain so you're on your own with that problem.
7) Fit only the things you need for the IVA - I left the roof off until it was safely back and registered. I also recommend taking it to a garage and having a mock MOT done prior to the test. A second pair of eyes to check the fundamentals was very useful and builds your confidence.
8) Finally its a real challenge but fun. I have ended up with a car which cost a lot less than buying a new kit and was far more than a "bolt together" job. You will have to fabricate parts and brackets, work with fiberglass (I had to fill in holes and respray), rewire or make your own loom, and so forth. Its great but it certainly isn't an easy option.
Hope that's helped.
Paul
smeagol said:
Hi done it and got it through the IVA, mine was a 1988 westfield SE (chassis number 282) the following is what you need to think about:
1) It is a restoration AND kit car build. My Westfield was not designed for the IVA so you have to be very careful about the car/project you are buying. First thing I did was research what changes the company had made to their models and do you have to make the same changes ie are there any fundamental problems with the kit which will need extensive work. Luckily Westfield chassis was so good in 1988 no changes were needed but it was close! If you're not sure leave well alone. Quite a few kit car companies went bang when the SVA/IVA was introduced simply because of the changes they would have had to made.
2) Assume the kit is completely needed to be stripped down and redone. Anything else is a bargain. Mine I took back to rolling chassis and checked very carefully suspension and engine/gearbox.
3) If they say is 80% complete or whatever, halve that number as a base assumption (Mine was even less)
4) Take photos as you build, its so useful for the IVA and VOSA to have that build diary. They may or may not ask to see it but its handy to have. Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ORIGINAL RECEIPTS. I can't emphasis that enough. When I took it to VOSA to get registered they were interested in the original receipts not the ones I had collected in the build/restoration. You have to prove that it is yours legally.
5) The IVA manual is your guide to the build and if you can get hold of an original build manual then that will help but its worth a look online to see whats out there. Go through every requirement as you build and ensure it matches the requirements. Even after I had done this mine still failed first time but I was able to get it through after taking notes.
6) "old" usually fails: eg instruments/switches now have rounded edges old ones didn't eg nice old VDO instruments I had with the build failed, mini rocker switches failed. They all had to be surrounded to ensure that they could not be touched. Windscreens have to be EU marked the British mark is no longer allowed. Its things like this that cause the major headaches. Remember you cannot go back to the company and complain so you're on your own with that problem.
7) Fit only the things you need for the IVA - I left the roof off until it was safely back and registered. I also recommend taking it to a garage and having a mock MOT done prior to the test. A second pair of eyes to check the fundamentals was very useful and builds your confidence.
8) Finally its a real challenge but fun. I have ended up with a car which cost a lot less than buying a new kit and was far more than a "bolt together" job. You will have to fabricate parts and brackets, work with fiberglass (I had to fill in holes and respray), rewire or make your own loom, and so forth. Its great but it certainly isn't an easy option.
Hope that's helped.
Paul
Great post smeagol. Your experience is uncanilly like my recent Fury build.1) It is a restoration AND kit car build. My Westfield was not designed for the IVA so you have to be very careful about the car/project you are buying. First thing I did was research what changes the company had made to their models and do you have to make the same changes ie are there any fundamental problems with the kit which will need extensive work. Luckily Westfield chassis was so good in 1988 no changes were needed but it was close! If you're not sure leave well alone. Quite a few kit car companies went bang when the SVA/IVA was introduced simply because of the changes they would have had to made.
2) Assume the kit is completely needed to be stripped down and redone. Anything else is a bargain. Mine I took back to rolling chassis and checked very carefully suspension and engine/gearbox.
3) If they say is 80% complete or whatever, halve that number as a base assumption (Mine was even less)
4) Take photos as you build, its so useful for the IVA and VOSA to have that build diary. They may or may not ask to see it but its handy to have. Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ORIGINAL RECEIPTS. I can't emphasis that enough. When I took it to VOSA to get registered they were interested in the original receipts not the ones I had collected in the build/restoration. You have to prove that it is yours legally.
5) The IVA manual is your guide to the build and if you can get hold of an original build manual then that will help but its worth a look online to see whats out there. Go through every requirement as you build and ensure it matches the requirements. Even after I had done this mine still failed first time but I was able to get it through after taking notes.
6) "old" usually fails: eg instruments/switches now have rounded edges old ones didn't eg nice old VDO instruments I had with the build failed, mini rocker switches failed. They all had to be surrounded to ensure that they could not be touched. Windscreens have to be EU marked the British mark is no longer allowed. Its things like this that cause the major headaches. Remember you cannot go back to the company and complain so you're on your own with that problem.
7) Fit only the things you need for the IVA - I left the roof off until it was safely back and registered. I also recommend taking it to a garage and having a mock MOT done prior to the test. A second pair of eyes to check the fundamentals was very useful and builds your confidence.
8) Finally its a real challenge but fun. I have ended up with a car which cost a lot less than buying a new kit and was far more than a "bolt together" job. You will have to fabricate parts and brackets, work with fiberglass (I had to fill in holes and respray), rewire or make your own loom, and so forth. Its great but it certainly isn't an easy option.
Hope that's helped.
Paul
I would add, don't under estimate the cost of all the 'little details' required to meet the IVA needs. As regards actually getting the car on the road itself, the cost of the IVA, registration (+ a trailer?), road tax, insurance, number plates and fuel - allow another £1000
i hd my murtaya part built by adrenaline motorsport and when they went under i was left with a half built car that arden automotive tried to complete the build cheaply but found so much wrong they had to basically rebuild costing 1 1/2 times original total build estimate so be very careful buying part built cars
martin
martin
stevetvrs said:
Great post smeagol. Your experience is uncanilly like my recent Fury build.
I would add, don't under estimate the cost of all the 'little details' required to meet the IVA needs. As regards actually getting the car on the road itself, the cost of the IVA, registration (+ a trailer?), road tax, insurance, number plates and fuel - allow another £1000
Thank you, Yes you're right about those extras as well... hated that bit, a lot of that money seemed like "hoop jumping" rather than actual improvements. You can get away without a trailer if you have the car insured on the chassis number and pre-book appointments. I would add, don't under estimate the cost of all the 'little details' required to meet the IVA needs. As regards actually getting the car on the road itself, the cost of the IVA, registration (+ a trailer?), road tax, insurance, number plates and fuel - allow another £1000
I agree £1000 "test extras" to get it on the road esp. the "government slice of the pie" test charge/retest fee
Edited by smeagol on Tuesday 16th August 22:19
I live in Melton and DVLA was in Nottingham, I called Nottingham Police and they said if it needed an inspection from DVLA then they would consider it "pre-booked" and therefore ok to drive it there as long as I went from home to the appointment and back. Very nice chap at the police station, when I told him that DVLA said I had to trailer it if necessary he said "who came up with that stupid rule?, if its passed its IVA then its safe to put on the road!" 
.
In the end afaik the new regs say they don't have to inspect it anymore due to the IVA, the only thing they are looking for is the chassis number and you can't be issued the IVA without it so it must be on the car. That's what happened to me, I went in the family fiesta with all my paperwork and they said they didn't need to inspect the car, "thank you for your money wait until you get your number plate trough the post" (Q plate). I may have been lucky, I'm not sure that if you're going for a "new plate" whether they inspect them but the Q plate didn't need it. Did yours have to be inspected?
Oh I did get a load of bull from the DVLA help line though as they came up with all sorts of things such as it needed an MOT as well as the IVA certificate (It don't!) especially as you can't get an MOT on a chassis number anymore - their computers won't accept it. (Oh what fun that was). Dealing with the DVLA was definately the most frustrating as it depends on who you get on what advice you get and some of it is out of date. (VOSA much nicer and informed)
. In the end afaik the new regs say they don't have to inspect it anymore due to the IVA, the only thing they are looking for is the chassis number and you can't be issued the IVA without it so it must be on the car. That's what happened to me, I went in the family fiesta with all my paperwork and they said they didn't need to inspect the car, "thank you for your money wait until you get your number plate trough the post" (Q plate). I may have been lucky, I'm not sure that if you're going for a "new plate" whether they inspect them but the Q plate didn't need it. Did yours have to be inspected?
Oh I did get a load of bull from the DVLA help line though as they came up with all sorts of things such as it needed an MOT as well as the IVA certificate (It don't!) especially as you can't get an MOT on a chassis number anymore - their computers won't accept it. (Oh what fun that was). Dealing with the DVLA was definately the most frustrating as it depends on who you get on what advice you get and some of it is out of date. (VOSA much nicer and informed)
Edited by smeagol on Tuesday 16th August 23:19
smeagol said:
Thank you, Yes you're right about those extras as well... hated that bit, a lot of that money seemed like "hoop jumping" rather than actual improvements. You can get away without a trailer if you have the car insured on the chassis number and pre-book appointments.
I agree £1000 "test extras" to get it on the road esp. the "government slice of the pie" test charge/retest fee
When I built my Caterham back in 1990/1 the Customs and Excise tax really annoyed me but paid it 'cos I wanted a J reg net a Q. Money for old rope, I had paid VAT on everything on the car already but I guess that is what all new car buyers pay too.I agree £1000 "test extras" to get it on the road esp. the "government slice of the pie" test charge/retest fee
Edited by smeagol on Tuesday 16th August 22:19
This IVA/SVA thing is something I didn't need to go through back then, I hear all sorts of horror tales, often on here, but surely its all safety really although some things a bit nit picking I guess.
Used to do a bit of RAC scrutineering back then and remember drivers seats bolted through fibregalsss floors on autocross cars etc!! THink it was a Magenta. Couldn't understand why we failed it.
On the subject of old kit cars, there is always the option of buying one that is registered (correctly) but a bit tatty and re building properly. No IVA/SVA or whatever then, just an MoT at £50
I’m considering a part built kit at the moment. The car is currently at the rolling chassis stage with the engine, brakes, fuel system, and some of the bodywork fitted, but still needs alot of work to complete. The car was being built by a local garage as a demonstrator but they have now shelved the project. As I have limited garage space it seems like an ideal project, however I’m a bit concerned about the IVA emissions testing requirements.
As I understand it if you can prove that the car is an Amateur Build then the emissions test requirements will be based on the age of the donor car. However if it is built by a specialist or is a factory build then the car will be tested as a new car and must meet the current emissions criteria.
If the above is correct then how would this car be assessed assuming I completed the build my self?
As I understand it if you can prove that the car is an Amateur Build then the emissions test requirements will be based on the age of the donor car. However if it is built by a specialist or is a factory build then the car will be tested as a new car and must meet the current emissions criteria.
If the above is correct then how would this car be assessed assuming I completed the build my self?
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