Downhill bike: what ones should I look at second-hand?
Discussion
I'm considering a DH bike. Before last weekend I had my doubts I'd do one justice (being too much of a wuss), but I'm riding more and more proper DH trails and feel that my riding now "justifies" a DH bike.
Only problem is my budget is <£1k
I don't want a lot of £££ tied up in a bike I won't ride that often, hence the budget. I've got a few bikes and the majority of my riding is general "trail" stuff, but I still want the correct tool for the job rather than continue DH-ifying my full-susser: a Lapierre Spicy with air shock, which isn't really appropriate for the tracks I'm riding (Fort William and Innerleithen DH).
Generally going by what I see on the trails, Giant Glorys and Iron Horse Sundays seem to be popular at the lower end. I'm got a mate currently on a Morzine/Pila who bought a Sunday and I'm keen to try it when he returns.
Any suggestions for what other bikes/spec to be looking at, in this sort of budget?
(or please tell me if I'm being unrealistic!)
Cheers
Only problem is my budget is <£1k
I don't want a lot of £££ tied up in a bike I won't ride that often, hence the budget. I've got a few bikes and the majority of my riding is general "trail" stuff, but I still want the correct tool for the job rather than continue DH-ifying my full-susser: a Lapierre Spicy with air shock, which isn't really appropriate for the tracks I'm riding (Fort William and Innerleithen DH).
Generally going by what I see on the trails, Giant Glorys and Iron Horse Sundays seem to be popular at the lower end. I'm got a mate currently on a Morzine/Pila who bought a Sunday and I'm keen to try it when he returns.
Any suggestions for what other bikes/spec to be looking at, in this sort of budget?
(or please tell me if I'm being unrealistic!)
Cheers
There are loads about and the prices vary hugely!
For a grand you're looking at really good condition later lower range stuff like Norco A-Lines, Spesh Big-Hits etc or older and more worn out stuff.
Personally I don't like Sundays, they're MURDER to work on, quite fragile IMHO and you can forget about contacting Iron Horse if you need some odd bit or other because they went bankrupt a few years back, they did restart but they're only selling cheap stuff.
Norco A-lines are really tough and fun to ride, they jump brilliantly.
If you like the look of Glory's look for a Glory 8 (or Glory FR as some people call them) they sold them a few years ago, they're slightly beefier than the DH version and came originally with Marz 66 single crown forks, but most got fitted with triple clamps. They can be cheap to buy and they're really good.
Some earlier Spesh Demo's can be had for a grand, they're a bit of a classic.
Have a look on the Pinkbike and Southern Downhill classifieds, there's a lot of Kids Dreaming on there, but it seems they quite often take offers well below the asking price.
Sunday's arn't hard to work on, you just need to understand how the linkage goes together properly!
For a grand, you could get something around an '06 or '07 Sunday if you were lucky and someone was desperate enough. The big thing to look out for on them is play in the linkage. It's not a problem in the majority of cases as it's normally the shock bushes, but it can be the lower linkage being worn due to seized bearings which then turn in the linkage, rather than on the axle.
Even so, Pearce cycles can machine out the link now and get them running nicely again. Between them & BETD, you can buy all the spares you need to keep them running (pivots/linkages/specific bearings etc). The frames themselves are tough as old boots, testimented by the fact there is still so many of them at the races.
In term of a bike you can just buy & ride, you won't go too far wrong with one. You might struggle with the lower BB if you like to pedal, but they ride really well, even for a bike that's 6 years old now.
Giant Glory's - fairly bomb proof as a frame, cheap and reliable, hence the popularity. Bloody heavy though. If you are going for one though, i’ll contradict the previous poster & say don’t bother with the FR, the DH is fairly short & steep by modern standard, the FR even more so.
If you are in no rush for one, my advice would be to just buy the bits you need as you go along. With careful bargain hunting you can end up with a very nice bike for not much money at all. Recently i’ve been getting hacked off with my bike getting wrecked on uplift days and race weekends, especially considering the amount of money tied up in it, so i’ve split it down and sold all the bits. I’ve since been going ‘budget DH’ instead.
Through being brutal and kicking people in the nuts, i’ve managed to build up an 18 month old Orange 224 Evo with a decent spec for £50 over your budget, pretty much a third of what I sold the last bike for. The added bonus of not caring so much when it gets wrecked, a lot more money for other stuff and in reality a bike that just as capable as any other out there.
Happy hunting
P.S. Not being unrealistic either, and 'proven' bike out there will be fine, it's all in the rider, as shown at most races where is normally someone there who smokes everyone on a clapped out old shed of a bike.
For a grand, you could get something around an '06 or '07 Sunday if you were lucky and someone was desperate enough. The big thing to look out for on them is play in the linkage. It's not a problem in the majority of cases as it's normally the shock bushes, but it can be the lower linkage being worn due to seized bearings which then turn in the linkage, rather than on the axle.
Even so, Pearce cycles can machine out the link now and get them running nicely again. Between them & BETD, you can buy all the spares you need to keep them running (pivots/linkages/specific bearings etc). The frames themselves are tough as old boots, testimented by the fact there is still so many of them at the races.
In term of a bike you can just buy & ride, you won't go too far wrong with one. You might struggle with the lower BB if you like to pedal, but they ride really well, even for a bike that's 6 years old now.
Giant Glory's - fairly bomb proof as a frame, cheap and reliable, hence the popularity. Bloody heavy though. If you are going for one though, i’ll contradict the previous poster & say don’t bother with the FR, the DH is fairly short & steep by modern standard, the FR even more so.
If you are in no rush for one, my advice would be to just buy the bits you need as you go along. With careful bargain hunting you can end up with a very nice bike for not much money at all. Recently i’ve been getting hacked off with my bike getting wrecked on uplift days and race weekends, especially considering the amount of money tied up in it, so i’ve split it down and sold all the bits. I’ve since been going ‘budget DH’ instead.
Through being brutal and kicking people in the nuts, i’ve managed to build up an 18 month old Orange 224 Evo with a decent spec for £50 over your budget, pretty much a third of what I sold the last bike for. The added bonus of not caring so much when it gets wrecked, a lot more money for other stuff and in reality a bike that just as capable as any other out there.
Happy hunting
P.S. Not being unrealistic either, and 'proven' bike out there will be fine, it's all in the rider, as shown at most races where is normally someone there who smokes everyone on a clapped out old shed of a bike.
Edited by -C- on Monday 15th August 14:11
Sundays have quite low BBs which a lot of people don't get on with.
I had a Glory which I rode and raced extensively, and yes, it was heavy, but it was bloody bombproof. I'd highly recommend one. Demos as suggested above are also a good call.
The good old Orange 224 is also a good call.
But TBH there are a lot of good DH frames out there at the moment, you should be able to pick up something pretty handy for a grand.
I had a Glory which I rode and raced extensively, and yes, it was heavy, but it was bloody bombproof. I'd highly recommend one. Demos as suggested above are also a good call.
The good old Orange 224 is also a good call.
But TBH there are a lot of good DH frames out there at the moment, you should be able to pick up something pretty handy for a grand.
For that price I really don't think you can get better then a Sunday, with the old Glory are a second choice. The frames them selfs are fairly bomb proof, I do know of a few that broke but a lot less than the older Glory (though that is still a good strong frame) and way less than the 224s (Don't get a used 224, they have quite a serious cracking problem, 224 evos didn't realy fix it either, 223 were ok but a bit out dated now IMO). The BB on the Sunday isn't even that low in comparison to modern frames, you may pedal strike now and then but better that and a nice cornering bike than a sky high BB and a bike that won't go round corners fast. The only real weak point on the Sundays are the lower linkages, but new ones can be had from BETD/Pierce so not the end of the world. If you get an 07 or later then they revised the pivot bolts and the newer ones are a lot friendlier. If you do get one make sure the shock pivots are not siezed, remove them and grease the hell out of them. Hammering them you is not that fun at all. An angle set and a new shock (Fox RC4) and I think the Sunday is as fast a bike as anything you can currently buy.
Thanks for all the replies so far, glad to hear I'm not being too unrealistic in my demands
Both the Glory and the Sunday sound like candidates then, although to be honest I'll have to wait and see what comes up second-hand. I formed those ideas scouring the classifieds and after a bit of online research (plus reading Dirt mag). Unfortunately test-rides on second-hand are unlikely so I'm glad to hear positive comments of how things ride. But given it'll be my first DH bike, I'll have little to compare against so most things will feel pretty good I guess. I prefer a lower bottom bracket as I like to feel "in" a bike rather than "on" it, given my height (6').
Luckily I'm in no massive rush to buy. I've got commitments to ride at Fort William again this weekend and 10/11 Sept, but after that I've got no DH trips planned so no immediate rush. My mate who's currently on holiday bought his Iron Horse purely for the trip and intends selling it when he returns, so I'll bug him when he's home - no idea on size/age/spec of bike other than seeing a photo of it (white with red decals, Boxxers). I suspect it's a medium though which might or might not be suitable, given sizing advice I've read online.
I'll keep on searching
Both the Glory and the Sunday sound like candidates then, although to be honest I'll have to wait and see what comes up second-hand. I formed those ideas scouring the classifieds and after a bit of online research (plus reading Dirt mag). Unfortunately test-rides on second-hand are unlikely so I'm glad to hear positive comments of how things ride. But given it'll be my first DH bike, I'll have little to compare against so most things will feel pretty good I guess. I prefer a lower bottom bracket as I like to feel "in" a bike rather than "on" it, given my height (6').
Luckily I'm in no massive rush to buy. I've got commitments to ride at Fort William again this weekend and 10/11 Sept, but after that I've got no DH trips planned so no immediate rush. My mate who's currently on holiday bought his Iron Horse purely for the trip and intends selling it when he returns, so I'll bug him when he's home - no idea on size/age/spec of bike other than seeing a photo of it (white with red decals, Boxxers). I suspect it's a medium though which might or might not be suitable, given sizing advice I've read online.
I'll keep on searching
What height are you? I am 5'11" and rode 2 medium sundays, I was however on the limit for that size really. A medium and a bit would have been the right size for me, large was a bit big. White with red sounds like a '07 Factory frame unless its a respray. So it should have the newer linkage.
Floor Tom said:
What height are you? I am 5'11" and rode 2 medium sundays, I was however on the limit for that size really. A medium and a bit would have been the right size for me, large was a bit big. White with red sounds like a '07 Factory frame unless its a respray. So it should have the newer linkage.
Pretty much 6' exactly with a 24" inside leg and 82kgs, so fairly average dimensions for my height. Probably means I'd be looking towards a large/19" Sunday, but I wondered about fitting a medium/17"... My Spicy's an 18" with a 23.4" effective TT (170mm fork and 70mm stem), and my hardtail's also an 18" but with a 24" effective TT (140mm fork and 90mm stem). I briefly owned a 20" Giant Reign but swapped it for an 18" frame as the 20" felt too long and tall (I couldn't drop the saddle far enough or get off the back). Apparently Sunday's sizing is fairly consistent over the years, with the medium having a 23.5" effective TT and the large having a 24.5", so according to the figures at least I'm in the ballpark for both sizes (I've found a thread on ridemonkey - holy sh*t that's a LOT of posts). I realise the front-centre measurements would be more useful but it's not something I have to hand or can find easily! But at least I'll be able to give my mates a try for size, whatever size it is.
Wish I could figure out how to get the photo from Google+ but it's blocked from my work PC and I can't paste it from my phone. I'm guessing by the shaping of the seat-tube gusset it's a 2007 too, but I'll know more once he's back I guess. Got to be honest that the idea of buying from a mate I trust and being able to see it in the flesh is putting the Sunday at the top of my list. He paid £950 too and seems a decent bit of kit for the money...
I would have thought you would be alright on a medium Sunday. I had a couple & i’m 6’2”. Tried a large but it was on the big side for me, bit like Floor Tom, I could have done with an 18” fram rather than a 17” or 19”. My Mrs has a medium one & I find I can ride it comfortably still.
The Ridemonkey monster is a useful resource for learning about them, and any potential issues, plus a few tips to help out with the longevity of the bearings/pivots/linkages.
The actual frame shape hasn’t changed on the Sunday over the years. The seat tube gusset only varies on the size of the actual frame. The easiest way to tell the age is the cable guides on the downtube. The post ’07 bikes have a double cable guide on the non drive side up by the head tube gusset, and then another double in the middle of the downtube. The earlier bikes have separate guides on each side of the downtube.
There are a couple of other bits you can spot if you know what you are looking for too (slightly different top linkage plate & bolt design etc) but the giveaway is the cable guides.
If it’s red & white, it’s likely to be this (’07 Factory frame)
P.S. Unless you’re planning on racing or watching the National at Fort William on the 10th & 11th Sept, you might want to change the dates!
The Ridemonkey monster is a useful resource for learning about them, and any potential issues, plus a few tips to help out with the longevity of the bearings/pivots/linkages.
The actual frame shape hasn’t changed on the Sunday over the years. The seat tube gusset only varies on the size of the actual frame. The easiest way to tell the age is the cable guides on the downtube. The post ’07 bikes have a double cable guide on the non drive side up by the head tube gusset, and then another double in the middle of the downtube. The earlier bikes have separate guides on each side of the downtube.
There are a couple of other bits you can spot if you know what you are looking for too (slightly different top linkage plate & bolt design etc) but the giveaway is the cable guides.
If it’s red & white, it’s likely to be this (’07 Factory frame)
P.S. Unless you’re planning on racing or watching the National at Fort William on the 10th & 11th Sept, you might want to change the dates!
Thanks for the continuing advice folks.
This is the bike my mate bought (and TBH I now hope he sticks to his word and considers selling!):
Iron Horse Sunday by Ally Mitchell, on Flickr
Just noticed it has “factory” and the dw-link decal on the driveside chainstay (not sure if it’s an original finish or powdercoat/respray, but I can’t find a match on google images). Anyone know or take a guess at model/year/size from that?
And yeah that thread on ridemonkey is a beast! I’ve not delved too deeply into it yet as I’ve not settled on a Sunday, but it certainly seems like a very useful resource.
-C-,
Cheers for the heads up on the British Series dates – I knew about those already from the Nevis Range website. I’m volunteering as a bike patrol person: basically a first responder to incidents, riding the tracks while I’m not needed and responding when I am. The Nationals is one of the weekends I’m apparently helping at. I’m there this weekend so will ask what I’m needed for on 10/11 Sept: I’ve only ridden the WC track a handful of times on my Spicy and would only embarrass myself if I attempted to ride quickly to help a stricken racer… Are you riding in it yourself?
This is the bike my mate bought (and TBH I now hope he sticks to his word and considers selling!):
Iron Horse Sunday by Ally Mitchell, on Flickr
Just noticed it has “factory” and the dw-link decal on the driveside chainstay (not sure if it’s an original finish or powdercoat/respray, but I can’t find a match on google images). Anyone know or take a guess at model/year/size from that?
And yeah that thread on ridemonkey is a beast! I’ve not delved too deeply into it yet as I’ve not settled on a Sunday, but it certainly seems like a very useful resource.
-C-,
Cheers for the heads up on the British Series dates – I knew about those already from the Nevis Range website. I’m volunteering as a bike patrol person: basically a first responder to incidents, riding the tracks while I’m not needed and responding when I am. The Nationals is one of the weekends I’m apparently helping at. I’m there this weekend so will ask what I’m needed for on 10/11 Sept: I’ve only ridden the WC track a handful of times on my Spicy and would only embarrass myself if I attempted to ride quickly to help a stricken racer… Are you riding in it yourself?
Thats an ’06 frame, so one of the earlier ones. They don’t look like ’07 Boxxer’s either, they haven’t done a shiny silver lower like that since ~’05. The Boxxer’s of that era were not the best unfortunately . They changed in ’06 & pretty much stayed the same until the 2010 model came out. The ’06-’09 Boxxers were great though.
The model is a ‘Factory’. Basically frame only build. It will either be a small or medium with the seat tube/top tube gusset like that. The large is noticeably bigger.
£950 is probably about the going rate, maybe a bit top heavy seeing as it’s a little bit older with older components. Personally I would be looking for something a bit newer for my money. I watched an ’09 Sunday Team go on Ebay last night for £990 that looked almost unused. That’s where my money would have gone.
Yeah, i’m meant to be racing that weekend, but toying with sacking it off though. It’s a bloody long way for us, and I don’t really enjoy the track. We shall see though, I might find my motivation soon
The model is a ‘Factory’. Basically frame only build. It will either be a small or medium with the seat tube/top tube gusset like that. The large is noticeably bigger.
£950 is probably about the going rate, maybe a bit top heavy seeing as it’s a little bit older with older components. Personally I would be looking for something a bit newer for my money. I watched an ’09 Sunday Team go on Ebay last night for £990 that looked almost unused. That’s where my money would have gone.
Yeah, i’m meant to be racing that weekend, but toying with sacking it off though. It’s a bloody long way for us, and I don’t really enjoy the track. We shall see though, I might find my motivation soon
As a conclusion to this, I thought I'd let you all know what I bought...
Meet my latest new (to me) bike: Giant Glory DH 2008/09 with 2010 Marzocchi 888 forks. Stats: 45.3lbs, 63.0deg head angle, 200mm travel up front, 8.0" rear travel.
Standard Glory DH's of this age are usually 8.8" travel with a 65deg head angle, but the rear shock on this one's been tweaked with a shortened stroke to give 63deg and 8.0" along with a lower BB. Should be an absolute weapon on a downhill track but will be a handful on anything else! It's seem some action hence isn't cosmetically perfect, but it's a DH bike and that's to be expected. Mechanically it's pretty spot on though.
I was hoping to give it it's first outing this weekend at Fort William DH tracks (I was supposed to be volunteer bike patrol on the red DH) but the gondolas are highly likely to be closed due to high winds. The Halo British DH for this weekend was cancelled yesterday due to the forecast
Can't wait to give it a proper ride at Innerleithen soon!
Meet my latest new (to me) bike: Giant Glory DH 2008/09 with 2010 Marzocchi 888 forks. Stats: 45.3lbs, 63.0deg head angle, 200mm travel up front, 8.0" rear travel.
Standard Glory DH's of this age are usually 8.8" travel with a 65deg head angle, but the rear shock on this one's been tweaked with a shortened stroke to give 63deg and 8.0" along with a lower BB. Should be an absolute weapon on a downhill track but will be a handful on anything else! It's seem some action hence isn't cosmetically perfect, but it's a DH bike and that's to be expected. Mechanically it's pretty spot on though.
I was hoping to give it it's first outing this weekend at Fort William DH tracks (I was supposed to be volunteer bike patrol on the red DH) but the gondolas are highly likely to be closed due to high winds. The Halo British DH for this weekend was cancelled yesterday due to the forecast
Can't wait to give it a proper ride at Innerleithen soon!
Greg66 said:
Average? A two foot inside leg is average for a six footer? Where? The circus? 
34"?
34"?
Only just noticed that typo!
And I must be on a bad day: my forks are actually 2009 888 RC3s and not 2010 ones. Fingers crossed on reliability as they're not from Marzocchi's finest hour.
Gutted I'm not going to Fort William this weekend
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