Buying Land owned by the Council - how ?
Discussion
Anyone with prior experience ?
I am the first house on the street and on the land to the right of my property are allotments in a valley. To the right of my garden is about 20-30 feet of brambles and scrub on a gentle slope (drops about 7-8ft over the 20-30) My garden follows the natural line of the valley. I would like to purchase some of the land to square my garden off (thinking of decking out over the drop) The previous owner informed me that the land is owned by Cambridge University and rented out to Bexley council (A tree feel on his car that he claimed for).
Where did you start in this process ?
not in a rush, but would like to understand the process as we would like to get the garden sorted over the next 12-18 months
Thanks
I am the first house on the street and on the land to the right of my property are allotments in a valley. To the right of my garden is about 20-30 feet of brambles and scrub on a gentle slope (drops about 7-8ft over the 20-30) My garden follows the natural line of the valley. I would like to purchase some of the land to square my garden off (thinking of decking out over the drop) The previous owner informed me that the land is owned by Cambridge University and rented out to Bexley council (A tree feel on his car that he claimed for).
Where did you start in this process ?
not in a rush, but would like to understand the process as we would like to get the garden sorted over the next 12-18 months
Thanks
Edited by maddernj on Tuesday 16th August 09:47
Allotments have a special legal status (Google 'Allotments Act 1925').
It's a long-winded and painful process for Local Authorities to agree disposal of 'allocated' allotment land; they need the specific consent of the Secretary of State, DCLG, to do so and usually have a locally adopted consultation process to follow.
If the land is held on long-term lease from Cambridge University, you may find that the terms of the lease itself are a serious impediment to disposing of part of the land in isolation.
It's a long-winded and painful process for Local Authorities to agree disposal of 'allocated' allotment land; they need the specific consent of the Secretary of State, DCLG, to do so and usually have a locally adopted consultation process to follow.
If the land is held on long-term lease from Cambridge University, you may find that the terms of the lease itself are a serious impediment to disposing of part of the land in isolation.
dickymint said:
And you would need planning for "raised decking".
What I meant by "raised decking" would be on a platform level with my garden, but I agree I am sure I would need planning from the parish as this would bring the border of my property closer to the allotments.A section of my garden is slipping down the slop though, if i let it go I could just claim that as my new boundry ;-)
Sam_68 said:
If the land is held on long-term lease from Cambridge University, you may find that the terms of the lease itself are a serious impediment to disposing of part of the land in isolation.
Sam's right - if you wanted to use the land, you'd need to acquire the council's leasehold interest but you'd only have the lease. You'd then probably want to acquire the freehold from whichever Cambridge college owns it.Chances are neither party want to sell anyway.
BoRED S2upid said:
Smallest fence in the world 
I think you have to maintain the land or something after you have fenced it off so I cut every 5 years and bingo.
Hmm I do maintain it (as did the previous owner) as no other bugger will cut the tree's back. Theoretically I could just fence it off as the growth is so thick you can not see through after 2 feet anyway.I think you have to maintain the land or something after you have fenced it off so I cut every 5 years and bingo.
sleep envy said:
if they haven't after 14 years it's yours
It's 10 years for registered land and 12 years for unregistered land, in fact.Google 'Adverse Possession'.
I honestly couldn't say which would take precedence, however: adverse possession or Section 8 of the Allotments Act (which says: Where a local authority has purchased or appropriated land for use as allotments the local authority shall not sell, appropriate, use, or dispose of the land for any purpose other than use for allotments without the consent of the Minister... - my bold)
You may be well advised to take legal advice before setting off down this route, therefore.
If you do make a claim for adverse possession after 10/12 years, notice of your application is served on the registered landowner (one of the colleges of Cambridge University in this case?) and they have right to make a counter-claim.
Given that some of the colleges at Cambridge (notably Trinity) are amongst the biggest and most powerful landowners in the country, and given the added complications of the Allotments Act (and the clouded responsibility for maintenance of the land against adverse possession, resulting from the fact that the landowner has leased it to a 3rd party in the form of the the council), I'd be prepared for a very expensive court case, if I were you.
Edited by Sam_68 on Tuesday 16th August 19:30
Possibly, but I guess the argument for adverse possession is that you could occupy and gain benefit of the land for 10 years (or until you get kicked off, whichever is the sooner) at no cost, so long as are careful not to expose yourself to any legal bills by being bloody-minded and fighting the college if they decide to resist your eventual claim. And there's always a slim chance that they might not bother to resist you when you do eventually claim adverse possession?
I should stress that I'm an Architect, however, and what little knowledge of land law I have has mainly been picked up along the way in my employment with various housing developers. You might find a suitable specialist solicitor in land law turns up presently with better advice...
I should stress that I'm an Architect, however, and what little knowledge of land law I have has mainly been picked up along the way in my employment with various housing developers. You might find a suitable specialist solicitor in land law turns up presently with better advice...
Sam_68 said:
If you do make a claim for adverse possession after 10/12 years, notice of your application is served on the registered landowner (one of the colleges of Cambridge University in this case?) and they have right to make a counter-claim.[/footnote]
Surely the logic of simply building a fence around the land you plan to take possession of is that you don't file anything at all - the land becomes part of your garden, and it's up to the landowner to prove that it's rightfully theirs. Whilst I wouldn't dream of moving my fence 6 foot into a neighbour's garden, the potential logistics & costs of legitimately purchasing a small strip of wasteland against simply moving a fence and hoping nobody notices would be a tricky call for my moral compass.
oldcynic said:
Surely the logic of simply building a fence around the land you plan to take possession of is that you don't file anything at all - the land becomes part of your garden, and it's up to the landowner to prove that it's rightfully theirs.
Land ownership is first and foremost defined by the registered title, held on file by the Land Registry.If the area of land being is big enough to be measurable against survey (within the limits of accuracy of the LR title survey, which can vary), the the fact that a fence has been erected around it in itself doesn't define ownership.
If ownership were ever disputed (for example if the college/council ever disputes it, or a developer like us ever comes along and buys the land to build houses on, or whatever) the LR would do a check between the features on the ground and the line of ownership shown on the title plan. If you haven't filed a claim for adverse possession of the land and/or can't offer sufficient proof of adverse possession for the necessary period, you'll simply be kicked off.
Chrisgr31 said:
The alternative would be to seek to buy the freehold from the university then change the lease terms with the Council to exclude the strip you want for your garden.
To do that, you'd need to buy the freehold to the whole area of land to which the leasehold agreement relates, not just the bit you want as extra garden.Fine if you have several million £ sitting in your bank account doing nothing.
And, of course, you can't unilaterally change the terms of a lease - you'd need the Council's agrement to the change (which, being allotment land would in turn require due process and the approval of the Secretary of state).
It might be easier to just find another house with a bigger garden...
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