Its the wrong brake discs grommet!

[taylormj4]

Hi,
I've just fitted a new pair of EBC brake discs. After having driven for around 300 miles with gentle 'bedding in' braking only I have noticed that the outer pads on both wheels are only braking on the outer 2cm of the discs.
It seems that the outer pad is being held at an angle to the disc face by the calliper.
I have been supplied with a D150 code EBC disc but I have found a reference on these pages that lists a different EBC disc for my car (4.5 1997 chimaera). The motor factor measured the discs that were on the car and ordered the D150s but these seem to have the disc offset from the hub by 4mm more than the ones listed on these pages and my originals but the shop is refusing to swap them as I've done the 300 miles on them.
Any ideas chaps? Will the outer pad eventually reshape to this profile or am I risking the calliper slide jamming / piston coming out of the calliper as the dis is in the wrong place?
Cheers.

[k44ent]

If it's the correct disc, assuming you have standard callipers, the disc should sit central in the calliper carrier. I would have thought that 4mm difference in offset would have caused the disc to catch the carrier.

[joospeed]

4mm is greater distance then the gap in teh caliper maount onto the hub, if they were the wrong discs they woud have locked / jammed as you tightened the wheel up, and would have made terrible griding noises as the caliper mount took a chunk out of the disc. chances are you *do* have the right discs ..
just go back and check everything again, and if you're still worried get a local mechanic to come out and inspect your work.

trouble is after all this you'd wish you'd have taken it to a garage anyway ..

[shpub]

Agree with Joolz but there are/is variation on the callipers/disc setup so it may be you have one of those.

[M@H]

taylormj4 said:

Hi, It seems that the outer pad is being held at an angle to the disc face by the calliper. Cheers.

Well this isn't going to be anything to do with the disc at all if the pad is at an angle.. sounds like the pad is not installed correctly. I'd have a wheel off pronto and have a good butchers.

Cheers
Matt.

[spend]

Sure you dont have pads that are too big, or crap in the caliper. Sounds like the pads are not seating correctly.

Dave

[k44ent]

Agree, sounds like wrong pads or the pad retaining spring not fitted correctly, had this on a mOndeo once and the brakes went realy soft.

[greenv8s]

My guess would be cr@p between the caliper and the backplate. Some makes of pad have sticky out bits (technical term) on the back which, if they were wrong for your caliper might prevent it from seating properly? (I'm thinking about ones that engage into the piston to stop the piston from rotating, none of the Ford brakes I've seen had these but some non-Fords do. If fitted on the outside, these might stop the pad from seating properly in the caliper.)

[homer]

Don't know about EBC discs, but when I put on some Red Dot groovies, my offset was about 4mm out as well!
I had to remove the shims behind the caliper carrier. However this meant that the 2 bolts holding it on were then too long - so new shorter bolts used and A-OK now.

[taylormj4]

spend said:

Sure you dont have pads that are too big, or crap in the caliper. Sounds like the pads are not seating correctly. Dave

Yeah, I thought this too and removed the callipers and pulled out the pads, used a scraper to ensure that the holder was completely free of gunk and then replaced using liberal copper grease. Still doing it though and by equal amounts on both wheels?
It's only the outer pads that are doing it - the inners are fine.
As for the 4mm offset thing, I think they would still fit in the calliper, just. I noticed that the carrier was very close to the disc outer face but quite a way from the inner face. I'd get some photos on here if I knew how!
Matt

[shpub]

Following on from the pads to big theory...

Not unknown for the wrong size pads to be supplied on the "they are all interchangeable, sir" excuse. I put a piccie showing the size differences in the bible. There is about a 30% difference in pad area.

[M@H]

taylormj4 said:

I'd get some photos on here if I knew how! Matt

Email them to me and I'll put them up.

Cheers,
Matt

[taylormj4]

shpub said:

Following on from the pads to big theory... Not unknown for the wrong size pads to be supplied on the "they are all interchangeable, sir" excuse. I put a piccie showing the size differences in the bible. There is about a 30% difference in pad area.

Yes, useful bit of the book that Steve, I took it to the motor factors and avoided being given the wrong pads first time round - The pads they've supplied were the code you listed in the book but had a "/2" after the code, does this mean anything? They have the same outline as the book and have that clip thingy on the inner ones.

M&H, thanks for the offer, I'll get them emailed to you, cheers.
Matt

[M@H]

Matt, where are you in S.Wales.. I'm not that far away if you're on the Border and could have a look at it perhaps..?

Cheers,
Matt

[taylormj4]

M@H said:

Matt, where are you in S.Wales.. I'm not that far away if you're on the Border and could have a look at it perhaps..? Cheers, Matt

Matt,
I'm in Cardiff. Where are you then, Chepstow way?
Matthew

[taylormj4]

Whilst taking the photographs to be posted on here, I noticed that the inner pads are also not really using the inner radius of the disc face but not as badly as the outers.
Could it be the wrong brake pads then?
Has anyone else fitted 6502/2 EBC pads?
The brake discs wouldn't be tapered would they?
Matt

[shpub]

1. Don't recognise the 6502/2 part number. Sure that is right as they normally start with a 2.

2. Just found my EBC brake disc catalogue and there are a lot of variations with 4-5 mm differences in disc height and the hub diameter.

I think you simply don't have the right bits for your car despite you taking the discs in.

The discs should be parallel and not tapered BTW

[M@H]

taylormj4 said:

M@H said: Matt, where are you in S.Wales.. I'm not that far away if you're on the Border and could have a look at it perhaps..? Cheers, Matt Matt, I'm in Cardiff. Where are you then, Chepstow way? Matthew

Near Ledbury.. 55 miles from you.

Agree with Shpub, wrong bits by the sound of it, & the disc should not be tapered either. The discs are a standard ford fitment though so I'm a little suprised you've got the wrong ones..!?

Front discs (and pads) are the same as the Ford Escort RS Turbo (85-90) withour wear indicators, the rears are Escort Cosworth 4WD (91-96)

The fronts pads should correspond with either
EBCDP2605/2, EBCG2415 or EBCG2389

and as for the discs.. well a certain respected gent said the following:

shpub said:

Spent some time researching this over the weekend. Tower View gave me a box of bits from Griffi and Chimaera and I have been measuring. Conclusion is there are no conclusions. As for the listing, I would but a lot of it is not right and there is so much varience that it gets a bit silly. BTW the last time I talked to EBC in the summer, EBC stated that they no longer spec TVR in their current catalogue and now say call factory. The reason is the variance and the cost of returning stuff that didn't fit. They will ask for disc diameter, width and offset and a brake pad outline/photo. That tells you something for a start. There have been at least 5 different front disc sizes quotyed as used by TVR and 5 for the rear so I think EBC have quoted for two which makes me a bit suspicious. The sizes are in the bible. The EBC 2002 is for a Cerbera not a Chimaera or Griffith and is a standard for an AP Racing calliper. It will not fit and has the wrong pad shape. I used to use them on the 520 before switching to Ferodo cos the EBCs died. The ENC 2617 is correct for the rears. Fronts should be 2473 for the 260 mm brakes. and 2389 or 2415 for the 240 mm. Some manufacturers claim that they are interchangeable. There are big differences. which means they are not. If they are used then there is a big risk that they might stick in the calliper. Discs are a bane of my life at the moment as there are many 240/260 Ford discs, with slightly different offsets including Granada 5 hole one that TVR redrilled.. As there is only 2 mm clearance between the calliper and disc, this offset is critical and guess what, seeing 2-3 mm differences depending on which upright and calliper is being used... With the later cars they seem to have standardised a bit more but if you have an early one, a random selection process seems to have been used. Also I have been cross checking some of the references and these don't even stack up. An EBC number for a particular model turns up a different cross reference for another manufacturer and so on. Then looking at the pad profiles these have varied as well. To be blunt, it is a nightmare. I'll say it again and probably have this on my tomb stone... check and double check. Steve <a href="http://www.tvrbooks.co.uk">www.tvrbooks.co.uk</a>

Cheers
Matt



>> Edited by M@H on Thursday 10th June 15:00

[taylormj4]

Right, after a lengthy delay, I've taken photos of the discs (EBC D150) and pads on the fronts....which still haven't worn in!
Hopefully, if I've got this fontango thing right you'll be able to see them....
Any ideas, please before I go back to the shop and try to get them to give me the right version of disc / pad whatever is wrong?
One other thing, when dismantling I found washers between the calliper and the hub, are these correct?
Matt

This one shows that braking is only occurring on the outer part of the new discs....
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00443648f00000001.jpg

In this one you can see that although the pad appears to be in contact with the disc but it is not braking on it....
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00443648f00000002.jpg

This one shows the spacing between the disc and the carrier - correct discs then? and also the washer between the calliper and hub....
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00443648f00000003.jpg

This one shows that the pad doesn't cover the full disc braking area, correct?
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00443648f00000004.jpg

Cheers all for any help.
Matt

[M@H]

taylormj4 said:

One other thing, when dismantling I found washers between the calliper and the hub, are these correct?

err not in my world.
(I assume you mean the caliper mounting bracket)

OK on a more constructive note, the basic position of the pad looks OK, barring two things that strike me as odd.



Blue circle.. looks to me like the pad is not seated correctly here therefore is not totally flush with the disc.

Red Circle.. If this pad was working at all, then all this paint would have burnt off the caliper. These pads actually smoke as the paint burns off them on first use.

Somehow I think either the pad is jammed slightly at an angle in the caliper (I've done this before on fitting pads) or the caliper is stuck and although the piston is acting on the inner face, the sliders that balance the action across the caliper are not working properly. Its a bit hard to tell without seeing it.. did the caliper slide around ok when you had no pads in it..?

Cheers,
Matt.

Edited to add.. other than that the Discs look correct and the pads also look correct. This disc coverage by the pad in your last photo looks fine to me.

>> Edited by M@H on Friday 18th June 14:25