Free solar panel
Discussion
Some company has talked the wife into sending a chap round to my house to convince us into having free solar panels on the roof. We got some blurb in the post saying its all goverment funded, blah blah blah but i have a feeling this is some kind of con (or will cost me money at some point).
Anyone else had this or know anything about it?
What makes me suspicious is the paperwork is all mass printed literature making claims about the exact benifits i will recieve - they dont even know what angle my house is at, how much sun we will get, if we live under any shade (big tree), etc.... The whole thing seems: A) too good to be true B) like a scam or con to get their foot in my door......
Anyone else had this or know anything about it?
What makes me suspicious is the paperwork is all mass printed literature making claims about the exact benifits i will recieve - they dont even know what angle my house is at, how much sun we will get, if we live under any shade (big tree), etc.... The whole thing seems: A) too good to be true B) like a scam or con to get their foot in my door......
My limited knowledge is that it's partly true.
There are different tariffs, you either pay the cost of installation, with a government grant, and sell back excess energy or get the installation for free and they (the company) get the excess energy and you pay them (the comoany) a reduced tariff.
The solar company don't care who gets one as the panels are subsidised by the government, ie the tax payer, so really it's a false economy. Plus some councils won't let you put them up.
I'm not sure if this project is still valid.
There are different tariffs, you either pay the cost of installation, with a government grant, and sell back excess energy or get the installation for free and they (the company) get the excess energy and you pay them (the comoany) a reduced tariff.
The solar company don't care who gets one as the panels are subsidised by the government, ie the tax payer, so really it's a false economy. Plus some councils won't let you put them up.
I'm not sure if this project is still valid.
You are right to be cautious. Usual laws of risk assessment apply.
If it looks too good to be true it invariably is too good to be true. FACT.
Many of my business acquaintance's are having this done.
Some on my business acquaintance's are actually running the companies setting this up.
I am certain the suppliers will make money: just be certain you will.
My concern is the reality of the returns and the maintenance of the equipment.
Roof are exposed places. Very inaccessible, difficult to maintain in any way.
I fear the will be the maintenance will be the downside.
What happens when the suppliers go bust after cashing all the governments cheques. Say in three of four years. And they will.
Can you see the interest in long term expensive maintenance 30 foot up in a howling gale.
No nor can I,
Remember Individual Learning Accounts. Here we go again.
If it looks too good to be true it invariably is too good to be true. FACT.
Many of my business acquaintance's are having this done.
Some on my business acquaintance's are actually running the companies setting this up.
I am certain the suppliers will make money: just be certain you will.
My concern is the reality of the returns and the maintenance of the equipment.
Roof are exposed places. Very inaccessible, difficult to maintain in any way.
I fear the will be the maintenance will be the downside.
What happens when the suppliers go bust after cashing all the governments cheques. Say in three of four years. And they will.
Can you see the interest in long term expensive maintenance 30 foot up in a howling gale.
No nor can I,
Remember Individual Learning Accounts. Here we go again.
Just signed up for this. There are some respectable companies out there and some scammers, just like everything. The criteria are strict as the money comes from the government and runs out next April, so if you don't meet them exactly then you don't qualify, but it's easy enough to google them to find out what they are.
Basically if you meet the criteria they will install a PV system on your roof for nothing, then maintain it free of charge over 25 years for nothing. After that period it becomes yours.
The scammers will draw you in, then start to quibble over the precise points of the criteria in relation to your house and end up trying to make you pay for something. If so, make a fuss, kick them out and call trading standards. The good companies carry out a survey at your convenience, then have it checked by an independent surveyor and only at that point do they commit you and them to the deal.
We'll get a conservative 3.3 Kw on a bright (not sunny) day according to the 40 year old formula they use, so basically it's free juice a lot of the time. The only major drawback is that you cannot sell juice back to the national grid. That is part of the installing company's profit. However if you have a dial type meter, you'll get a credit as when supply exceeds demand in your house, it'll wind the meter back.
Remember here that the particulars of the terms and conditions of the contract are not drawn up by the companies, they are written into legislation, so you can verify them by cross checking the appropriate govt document. If you're in any doubt, I'd suggest you do it, because it will show that you really do get free juice for 25 years and beyond.
Basically if you meet the criteria they will install a PV system on your roof for nothing, then maintain it free of charge over 25 years for nothing. After that period it becomes yours.
The scammers will draw you in, then start to quibble over the precise points of the criteria in relation to your house and end up trying to make you pay for something. If so, make a fuss, kick them out and call trading standards. The good companies carry out a survey at your convenience, then have it checked by an independent surveyor and only at that point do they commit you and them to the deal.
We'll get a conservative 3.3 Kw on a bright (not sunny) day according to the 40 year old formula they use, so basically it's free juice a lot of the time. The only major drawback is that you cannot sell juice back to the national grid. That is part of the installing company's profit. However if you have a dial type meter, you'll get a credit as when supply exceeds demand in your house, it'll wind the meter back.
Remember here that the particulars of the terms and conditions of the contract are not drawn up by the companies, they are written into legislation, so you can verify them by cross checking the appropriate govt document. If you're in any doubt, I'd suggest you do it, because it will show that you really do get free juice for 25 years and beyond.
Edited by ajsphead on Wednesday 17th August 08:48
The goverment will pay something like 40p for every unit generated regardless of whether you use it or sell it back to the grid. This payment is guarenteed for 25 years. In addition the elec company will pay you for elec put back into the grid plus your elec bills go down as you are obviously using some of your own power. This is how it works if you own your own panels, income is about £1k per year. The companies that are offering free panels will be the ones receiving the 40p per unit from the goverment for 25 years and the homeowner I would suggest will benefit from lower elec bill.
I'm not a financial advisor and I may be talking out of my arse ( to use the traditional PH setence when starting an ill advised numeric post ).
But if you're getting 3.3Kwh, lets say you get that an average of 8 hours a day across the year at 40p per Kwh, that's an income of approx £3800 per annum, this tallies with an article I'd read stating that from a £15,000.00 installation you'd get about a 25% return p.a. at these tariff prices.
If that's correct, the solar companies are doing very very very nicely out of it. I can see why alot of people wouldn't want to spend the £15k upfront in the first place, but IMO it's well worth taking that route rather than the 'free' route.
But if you're getting 3.3Kwh, lets say you get that an average of 8 hours a day across the year at 40p per Kwh, that's an income of approx £3800 per annum, this tallies with an article I'd read stating that from a £15,000.00 installation you'd get about a 25% return p.a. at these tariff prices.
If that's correct, the solar companies are doing very very very nicely out of it. I can see why alot of people wouldn't want to spend the £15k upfront in the first place, but IMO it's well worth taking that route rather than the 'free' route.
Provided you choose a reputable company this is one of the things that isn't too good to be true.
Basically itworks like this:
1 - Install panels to roof plus associated gibbons to connect to your electrical system.
2 - For every kw of electricity that is generated you will be entitled to around 35p from the feed in tarrif.
3 - The electricity generated by the panel can be used in the house. If you don't use it you will feed back to the grid. Provided you have a generation meter you can sell this electricity to your energy supplier f
Basically itworks like this:
1 - Install panels to roof plus associated gibbons to connect to your electrical system.
2 - For every kw of electricity that is generated you will be entitled to around 35p from the feed in tarrif.
3 - The electricity generated by the panel can be used in the house. If you don't use it you will feed back to the grid. Provided you have a generation meter you can sell this electricity to your energy supplier f
Right in a nutshell.
It is all to do with FITS (Feed In Tariff Scheme). It is funded through the utility companies and statutorily protected. Dependant on the size of the Array installed different tariffs are paid for sub 4kwp this is 43.3p per Kwh. It is not ending in April 2012 merely being reviewed and the expectation is an 8% reduction on the tariff.
If you pay for and install solar via a recognised MCS supplier you can register and benefit from the tariff payback fixed at 43.3p and adjusted by RPI for 25years. For a trade install this means payback is about 4 years, retail about 6years. With that you also benefit from a generation tariff normally 1.5p and you get free electric if you can use it!
All in all a 4kwhp array due south with no shading in middle England should pay £1400 ish per annum back to the registrent with free electric worth upto about £500 per annum protected by RPI.
It is currently one of the best places to put your money.
The free panels are where a company funds the install and leases your roof for 25yrs BUT they have the FITS payment all you get is the free electric. YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE MUCH BETTER FUNDING IT YOURSELF AND HAVING THE PAYBACK.
Hope that helps...
It is all to do with FITS (Feed In Tariff Scheme). It is funded through the utility companies and statutorily protected. Dependant on the size of the Array installed different tariffs are paid for sub 4kwp this is 43.3p per Kwh. It is not ending in April 2012 merely being reviewed and the expectation is an 8% reduction on the tariff.
If you pay for and install solar via a recognised MCS supplier you can register and benefit from the tariff payback fixed at 43.3p and adjusted by RPI for 25years. For a trade install this means payback is about 4 years, retail about 6years. With that you also benefit from a generation tariff normally 1.5p and you get free electric if you can use it!
All in all a 4kwhp array due south with no shading in middle England should pay £1400 ish per annum back to the registrent with free electric worth upto about £500 per annum protected by RPI.
It is currently one of the best places to put your money.
The free panels are where a company funds the install and leases your roof for 25yrs BUT they have the FITS payment all you get is the free electric. YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE MUCH BETTER FUNDING IT YOURSELF AND HAVING THE PAYBACK.
Hope that helps...
There is a profit for someone.
http://www.co-operative.coop/magazine/in-the-news/...
This also gives you an idea on how it all works.
http://www.freesolarpanelsuk.co.uk/
http://www.co-operative.coop/magazine/in-the-news/...
This also gives you an idea on how it all works.
http://www.freesolarpanelsuk.co.uk/
Provided you choose a reputable company this is one of the things that isn't too good to be true.
Basically itworks like this:
1 - Install panels to roof plus associated gibbons to connect to your electrical system.
2 - For every kw of electricity that is generated you will be entitled to around 35p from the feed in tarrif.
3 - The electricity generated by the panel can be used in the house. If you don't use it you will feed back to the grid. Provided you have a generation meter you can sell this electricity to your energy supplier for around 3p a kw.
That's all there is to it.
Depending on who pays for the installation is where it gets interesting. Ignoring the savings from being able to use the generated electricity or sell back to the grid it will take approximately 10 years to break even on the installation provided it's south facing, at the right pitch and there is no shading.
This means there will be 15 years of profit to be had. This is why people are interested in putting panels on your roof, there is a lot of money to be made.
The installation costs will vary as the more panels that go on the more expensive it is but the 10 year payback still applies as it will generate more power. There are limits though as with massive 50 kw+ installs get a lower rate but you will need a huge area to get that many panels on.
The agreements that the companies are asking you to sign up to are basically saying that they will get the feed in tarrif and the panels aren't yours.
How this works when you want to sell I'm not sure but if you pay for the installation yourself it will definately add value to your property as you have got a guaranteed income for however long it has been since the install.
It's worth pointing out that the inverter that changes the DC current to AC so the you can use it in your house are only expected to last for 10 years max. These cost around £500 currently but they will come down.
The panels are usually guaranteed to produce 90% of their as new power at 10 years and 80% at 25 years.
It's worth noting that unless you put loads of panels on you will not have totally free electricity. You will only generate enough to cover the fridge, stuff on standby etc. Once you start turning stuff on you will be drawing from the mains. even so it will still save you a couple of hundred a year.
This is why the feed in tarrif has been introduced, without that panels don't payback. They will in time and they are getting better with each new generation but it will take a few years yet.
Its worth noting the feed in tarrif doesn't come from the government it is paid for by the energy companies who in turn put it on the bills of their customers.
The feed in tarrif will be reduced by 10% next April so get installing ASAP.
Basically if you've got the right roof get some panels on it, if you can afford it yourself do it you'll earn more money than keeping it in the bank. If you can't afford it look into the rent a roof schemes.
I've written this on my phone so I'll have another read of it once I get on a pc to check what I've written makes sense.
Basically itworks like this:
1 - Install panels to roof plus associated gibbons to connect to your electrical system.
2 - For every kw of electricity that is generated you will be entitled to around 35p from the feed in tarrif.
3 - The electricity generated by the panel can be used in the house. If you don't use it you will feed back to the grid. Provided you have a generation meter you can sell this electricity to your energy supplier for around 3p a kw.
That's all there is to it.
Depending on who pays for the installation is where it gets interesting. Ignoring the savings from being able to use the generated electricity or sell back to the grid it will take approximately 10 years to break even on the installation provided it's south facing, at the right pitch and there is no shading.
This means there will be 15 years of profit to be had. This is why people are interested in putting panels on your roof, there is a lot of money to be made.
The installation costs will vary as the more panels that go on the more expensive it is but the 10 year payback still applies as it will generate more power. There are limits though as with massive 50 kw+ installs get a lower rate but you will need a huge area to get that many panels on.
The agreements that the companies are asking you to sign up to are basically saying that they will get the feed in tarrif and the panels aren't yours.
How this works when you want to sell I'm not sure but if you pay for the installation yourself it will definately add value to your property as you have got a guaranteed income for however long it has been since the install.
It's worth pointing out that the inverter that changes the DC current to AC so the you can use it in your house are only expected to last for 10 years max. These cost around £500 currently but they will come down.
The panels are usually guaranteed to produce 90% of their as new power at 10 years and 80% at 25 years.
It's worth noting that unless you put loads of panels on you will not have totally free electricity. You will only generate enough to cover the fridge, stuff on standby etc. Once you start turning stuff on you will be drawing from the mains. even so it will still save you a couple of hundred a year.
This is why the feed in tarrif has been introduced, without that panels don't payback. They will in time and they are getting better with each new generation but it will take a few years yet.
Its worth noting the feed in tarrif doesn't come from the government it is paid for by the energy companies who in turn put it on the bills of their customers.
The feed in tarrif will be reduced by 10% next April so get installing ASAP.
Basically if you've got the right roof get some panels on it, if you can afford it yourself do it you'll earn more money than keeping it in the bank. If you can't afford it look into the rent a roof schemes.
I've written this on my phone so I'll have another read of it once I get on a pc to check what I've written makes sense.
If this is such a good deal, what happens when everyone has done it - and no-one pays the utility companies to be able to pay the FITS people?
I agree that the scheme, on the face of it, provides a good financial return - but I dislike the principle of subsidised small scale eco-generation, when we would be much better off spending taxpayer money on a secure & diverse energy portfolio that can cope with the future demands of society.
I agree that the scheme, on the face of it, provides a good financial return - but I dislike the principle of subsidised small scale eco-generation, when we would be much better off spending taxpayer money on a secure & diverse energy portfolio that can cope with the future demands of society.
Bungleaio said:
Its worth noting the feed in tarrif doesn't come from the government it is paid for by the energy companies who in turn put it on the bills of their customers.
It amounts to the same thing though, seeing as all taxpayers are also customers of utility companies - and this is a scheme introduced by the government.Timmy35 said:
I'm not a financial advisor and I may be talking out of my arse ( to use the traditional PH setence when starting an ill advised numeric post ).
But if you're getting 3.3Kwh, lets say you get that an average of 8 hours a day across the year at 40p per Kwh, that's an income of approx £3800 per annum, this tallies with an article I'd read stating that from a £15,000.00 installation you'd get about a 25% return p.a. at these tariff prices.
If that's correct, the solar companies are doing very very very nicely out of it. I can see why alot of people wouldn't want to spend the £15k upfront in the first place, but IMO it's well worth taking that route rather than the 'free' route.
Your figures are way off. A 3.3kWh setup maybe possibly in theory produce 3300kW hrs of electric a year, £1,320 - and probably less. But if you're getting 3.3Kwh, lets say you get that an average of 8 hours a day across the year at 40p per Kwh, that's an income of approx £3800 per annum, this tallies with an article I'd read stating that from a £15,000.00 installation you'd get about a 25% return p.a. at these tariff prices.
If that's correct, the solar companies are doing very very very nicely out of it. I can see why alot of people wouldn't want to spend the £15k upfront in the first place, but IMO it's well worth taking that route rather than the 'free' route.
Mattt said:
If this is such a good deal, what happens when everyone has done it - and no-one pays the utility companies to be able to pay the FITS people?
I agree that the scheme, on the face of it, provides a good financial return - but I dislike the principle of subsidised small scale eco-generation, when we would be much better off spending taxpayer money on a secure & diverse energy portfolio that can cope with the future demands of society.
Nail hit on the head. The goalposts will be moved - they always do.I agree that the scheme, on the face of it, provides a good financial return - but I dislike the principle of subsidised small scale eco-generation, when we would be much better off spending taxpayer money on a secure & diverse energy portfolio that can cope with the future demands of society.
At best it's a tax that discriminates against any house that does not face South. Or is there some loony green plan for non-compliant houses to get subsidised power in 25 years time
- fat chance!I have to say i'm not against solar , but I am against the way it's being implemented in the UK.
For a lot of the low income families the 'free' option just isn't an option; their houses don't have the amount of roof real estate to make it viable for the installers.
So we end up with those in larger houses getting the benefit, whilst those in smaller ones subsidise the FIT via increased utility bills.
For a lot of the low income families the 'free' option just isn't an option; their houses don't have the amount of roof real estate to make it viable for the installers.
So we end up with those in larger houses getting the benefit, whilst those in smaller ones subsidise the FIT via increased utility bills.
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