Broken Down !!!
Discussion
It's been playing-up for a couple of months but the 350i series 2 has finally broken down. Only a mile down the road from home so I got the wife to tow me back, pity she wasn't too good with the tow rope and took a chunk out of the front spoiler!
As the Pistonheads search facility is down at the moment I need some help please! Recently the car has been playing-up by refusing to rev when hot. Somtimes it would cough a bit and refuse to go over 3k, other times it just refused to go over 4 or 5k but with no spluttering at all. I broke down a while back but going again when I fiddled with the throttle pot connector. So to cut a long story short I checked that out plus cleaned up a load of connectors and set it up properly. Thought I had fixed it, then tonight when I got stuck at a set of lights, got moving, then it cut out completely. Couldn't get to it fire even when it cooled down a bit. Took a plug out and no spark. Checked the throttle pot voltages and it was perfect. Thinking that coils tend to give trouble before failing checked that and it reads about 2500k ohms so I assume that's ok. So I'm now thinking ignition module, but how do you test it? The only other thing I can think of is a failed alarm.
Thanks, Steve.
As the Pistonheads search facility is down at the moment I need some help please! Recently the car has been playing-up by refusing to rev when hot. Somtimes it would cough a bit and refuse to go over 3k, other times it just refused to go over 4 or 5k but with no spluttering at all. I broke down a while back but going again when I fiddled with the throttle pot connector. So to cut a long story short I checked that out plus cleaned up a load of connectors and set it up properly. Thought I had fixed it, then tonight when I got stuck at a set of lights, got moving, then it cut out completely. Couldn't get to it fire even when it cooled down a bit. Took a plug out and no spark. Checked the throttle pot voltages and it was perfect. Thinking that coils tend to give trouble before failing checked that and it reads about 2500k ohms so I assume that's ok. So I'm now thinking ignition module, but how do you test it? The only other thing I can think of is a failed alarm.
Thanks, Steve.
Edited by SLB on Friday 19th August 20:21
I've just had a chat with my uncle and I didn't realise you can't measure the ht side of a coil. The lt side measurse about 1.5 hms which i think is about right. Still no spark and suggested replacing the king lead so I'll give that a go next. I don't believe you can check an ignition module and at £70 from Rimmers I'd like to check the other things first. Steve
If you have no spark you get no fuel, so no point checking coolant sensors etc.
Ignition pickup could be the cause, sounds very similar to the progressive breakdown I suffered for over a year before it packed-in totally.
You can test tthe coil by removing the lead from the (-) terminal that heads off to the ignition amp and using a piece of wire, tap it on a good earth (ignition on) - such as the battery (-) terminal. Avoid touching the bare ends of the wire while you do it as the back-e.m.f. will probably give you a belt ;o)
You should get a fat spark.
You can test the ignition amp most easily by reconnecting to the coil, remove the dissy cap, pull the centre (king) lead out of the cap and lay it on a good earth (rocker cover should do), turn ignition on and 'flick' the rotor arm back and forward against the tension of the advance/retard springs. You should get a fat spark from the HT lead. If no spark then the ignition amp or pickup coil are suspect.
There's a more comprehensive way or two to prove which is the culprit, depends how handy you are with a multimeter...
Ignition pickup could be the cause, sounds very similar to the progressive breakdown I suffered for over a year before it packed-in totally.
You can test tthe coil by removing the lead from the (-) terminal that heads off to the ignition amp and using a piece of wire, tap it on a good earth (ignition on) - such as the battery (-) terminal. Avoid touching the bare ends of the wire while you do it as the back-e.m.f. will probably give you a belt ;o)
You should get a fat spark.
You can test the ignition amp most easily by reconnecting to the coil, remove the dissy cap, pull the centre (king) lead out of the cap and lay it on a good earth (rocker cover should do), turn ignition on and 'flick' the rotor arm back and forward against the tension of the advance/retard springs. You should get a fat spark from the HT lead. If no spark then the ignition amp or pickup coil are suspect.
There's a more comprehensive way or two to prove which is the culprit, depends how handy you are with a multimeter...
That must be two of us then as I live in Bracknell. The coil is good, nice fat sparks, but I couldn't get a spark by either flicking the rotor or even cranking the engine over with the king lead close to the plenum. Tested with another solid copper king lead and no difference. The alarm seems to be working normally so I guess it must be the ignition amp. I've always supsected it as it sits so close the swan neck and I've heard so many stories about them. There is a good Landrover and spares place in Eversley open on Saturdays so I'll take a trip over there in the morning and see if he'll test it for me.
If you need an amp try http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Simonbbc-Ignition-Solutio...
I'm sure that he does the conversion lead from the two pin amp to the current three pin amp, I seem to remember that he is slightly cheaper if you go direct rather than through fleabay as he doesn't have to pay the fleabay fees - certainly better price than Rimmers!
I'm sure that he does the conversion lead from the two pin amp to the current three pin amp, I seem to remember that he is slightly cheaper if you go direct rather than through fleabay as he doesn't have to pay the fleabay fees - certainly better price than Rimmers!
Try your local motor factors and ask for an Austin Metro one: the part number's different but it works just the same... and, surprise surprise, cheaper than a V8 one.
There may of course be more than one for the Metro, take yours along to compare.
Before you do, you may want to unplug the amp from the side of the dissy and measure the resistance across the pickup coil terminals that you'll find behind it: if it's more than a couple of thousand Ohms it's probably gone open-circuit. You won't get one of those at your local motor factors though
There may of course be more than one for the Metro, take yours along to compare.
Before you do, you may want to unplug the amp from the side of the dissy and measure the resistance across the pickup coil terminals that you'll find behind it: if it's more than a couple of thousand Ohms it's probably gone open-circuit. You won't get one of those at your local motor factors though
Progress of sorts. I went to the Landrover place, had a chat and bought a new 3 pin ignition amp for £32. It came with a connector and a couple of crimps so I could replace the old connectors ( now two wires into the new three pin connector). I was careful to get the wires the right way around and went to start the car. It fired immediately, ran for a second and stopped with clouds of smoke filling the garage. Figuring I'd seriously flooded it last night, I removed the plug from the injector resistor pack and again she fired up and ran for a second or two, although very roughly before running out of fuel. Put the resistor plug back in and expected her to go, but no, initially fired up and then died as though flooded. Checked the leads and distributor cap a couple of times then did the same starting routine a few times, with and without the cold start connected, before giving up and decided to ask for help! If I have got the wires the wrong way round on the new amp, what would happen? I'm now a bit concerned it's done something to the ECU. Steve.
SLB said:
It fired immediately, ran for a second and stopped with clouds of smoke filling the garage. Figuring I'd seriously flooded it last night, I removed the plug from the injector resistor pack and again she fired up and ran for a second or two, although very roughly before running out of fuel. Put the resistor plug back in and expected her to go, but no, initially fired up and then died as though flooded.
Sounds very similiar to my symptoms - flooding of fuel. Main suspect is the ECU so that is away getting repaired however the sensors were all under suspicion and I'm thinking the ECU won't fix it and it will be a sensor after all. The car is with my local garage who appear confident so I'll keep you posted and Ill watch this thread with interest.HI, my best guess is that your engine is flooded and has neat fuel in the cylinders and the plenum.
Try taking all the spark plugs out, noting which lead goes to which plug - use a piece of cardboard with holes in the put the leads through to make sure you put them back in the right order and dry them, a technique I use on an old motorcycle which either starts first time or floods is to heat the plugs with a blow torch but if you can get away with it, place them in the domestic oven and bake them to evaporate the fuel, then clean them.
With all the plugs out spin the engine over on the starter motor for a few seconds, as the plugs are out the air flow meter should not have sufficient air being drawn through it to activate the fuel pump so no more fuel will be getting put into the engine. Also disconnect the cold start injector that is powered by its own circuit, my car has had its cold start injector disconnected permanently, it doesn't need it and starts happily in any weather without it.
With the plugs out check that you have a spark.
Replace the plugs and see it will start now.
Good luck - I'm off to see if my old Matchless will start or flood today.
Try taking all the spark plugs out, noting which lead goes to which plug - use a piece of cardboard with holes in the put the leads through to make sure you put them back in the right order and dry them, a technique I use on an old motorcycle which either starts first time or floods is to heat the plugs with a blow torch but if you can get away with it, place them in the domestic oven and bake them to evaporate the fuel, then clean them.
With all the plugs out spin the engine over on the starter motor for a few seconds, as the plugs are out the air flow meter should not have sufficient air being drawn through it to activate the fuel pump so no more fuel will be getting put into the engine. Also disconnect the cold start injector that is powered by its own circuit, my car has had its cold start injector disconnected permanently, it doesn't need it and starts happily in any weather without it.
With the plugs out check that you have a spark.
Replace the plugs and see it will start now.
Good luck - I'm off to see if my old Matchless will start or flood today.
E Ponym said:
Flooding - always suspect the engine temp sensor!
If it's possible to get the car running correctly with this shorted out then it is the sensor.
You have two at the top of the engine near the extra-air valve one is the thermo-time sensor and the other is the temp sensor.
Russ
I said that to my garage man and he disapproved of internet know alls and their diagnosis so I'm letting him get on with it and if it's a case of '(we) I told you so' then the invoice will be adjusted accordingly If it's possible to get the car running correctly with this shorted out then it is the sensor.
You have two at the top of the engine near the extra-air valve one is the thermo-time sensor and the other is the temp sensor.
Russ
The ignition amp was definitely faulty as I now get a lovely big fat spark from the end of the king lead, but I still can't stop it over fueling. Shorting out the temp. sensor just about gets it going but it won't run properly and certainly won't idle, even with the cold start sensor and injector disconnected. I've just measured the resistance of the temp sensor and it says 50 ohms which is wrong. I remember checking it a couple of months ago and it was spot-on so something has changed, but even at 50 ohms or shorted out it still over fuels. The only reliable way of getting it to run is to get my wife to crank it over whilst I keep plugging in and out the resistor pack. So is it an ECU out job? Thanks, Steve.
Doh!!! I've just been really stupid and mixed the temp. sensor up with the cold start sensor, no wonder the 50 ohms is different to what it was before. Now I've shorted the right connector it's ok to a point, as you would expect. The temp sensor is open circuit so I'll have to get a new one. What are the chances of the iginition amp and the temp sensor failing exactly at the same time? Thanks for your help guys, it's much appreciated. Steve.
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