What am I letting myself in for?
Discussion
With being on holiday for the last couple of weeks I have had the luxury of scanning through a years worth of posts and find myself thinking, through some of the threads, what am I letting myself in for?
With every new thread (there are loads each month) where someone asks advice about wanting to buy a car, or ask 'what so you think of this one?' they are told to buy on condition, history etc and to look at this one with loads spent on it or is a known car.
But there are also loads of threads where regulars talk about their cars being off the road for major repairs, missing events or breaking down on them with issues that I would have thought a maintained car shouldn't have. It seems that even though regulars on here have their cars lovingly, and with some obsessively, maintained they still spend huge sums on them every year, way beyond what I would thought the 2-3K a year budget that is often quoted.
My question is then, if with due diligence and patience you find a 'well sorted car with loads spent on it' and one that has had chassis work, clutch, engine rebuild, brakes tyres etc all addressed in the pevious two years, at least, can one safely assume that they could perhaps only need to budget on fuel, consumables and servicing as the main expense of Cerb ownership?
I have owned cars that are expensive to maintain and high servicing costs at least once a year is expected, its just when you look at regulars profiles and their cars and the amounts they list spent every year on 'servicing and repairs' it is frightening.
Doing my sums in preparation to buy my own soon, I would have hoped that spending the time finding a properly looked after one draws a line to the present and that you should then have a future with a car which is both reliable and, with servicing at the correct intervals, be a on a par with owning any performance car, without carrying a timebomb of huge unexpected repairs.
Wishful thinking?
With every new thread (there are loads each month) where someone asks advice about wanting to buy a car, or ask 'what so you think of this one?' they are told to buy on condition, history etc and to look at this one with loads spent on it or is a known car.
But there are also loads of threads where regulars talk about their cars being off the road for major repairs, missing events or breaking down on them with issues that I would have thought a maintained car shouldn't have. It seems that even though regulars on here have their cars lovingly, and with some obsessively, maintained they still spend huge sums on them every year, way beyond what I would thought the 2-3K a year budget that is often quoted.
My question is then, if with due diligence and patience you find a 'well sorted car with loads spent on it' and one that has had chassis work, clutch, engine rebuild, brakes tyres etc all addressed in the pevious two years, at least, can one safely assume that they could perhaps only need to budget on fuel, consumables and servicing as the main expense of Cerb ownership?
I have owned cars that are expensive to maintain and high servicing costs at least once a year is expected, its just when you look at regulars profiles and their cars and the amounts they list spent every year on 'servicing and repairs' it is frightening.
Doing my sums in preparation to buy my own soon, I would have hoped that spending the time finding a properly looked after one draws a line to the present and that you should then have a future with a car which is both reliable and, with servicing at the correct intervals, be a on a par with owning any performance car, without carrying a timebomb of huge unexpected repairs.
Wishful thinking?
I must say i havent spent loads on my car but when ever there is something that needs doing it is done before it causes a problem to other bits. My car gets taken to santa pod and driven hard but it is also serviced at least once a year even if the mileage is not done. It is warmed up before it is driven hard and as i said before any bit that is in need of repair, replacement or even just cleaning and fettling with it is done before it causes a problem. Yes when i first got it it needed a new clutch, master and slave cylinder but it was done. few weeks ago when it had its last service they said underneath that it was a bit dirty ( weekend before was out in the rain) but apart from that said it was a good one, (this is always nice to hear) told me about a couple of things that will need doing so i will now do those in the turn of importance. Im not a car fanatic, im not a tvr fanatic, but i love my car and want to keep the cost affordable. I do this by doing the little bits before they become big bits.
I know this doesnt tell you much but my feeling is just listen and feel how the person selling the car talks. mileage isnt always important, looking 100% isnt always important, how do you feel about the car when you look and drive in it and how does the seller make you feel about there car?
Someone might spend a lot of money on specialists servicing and repairing there car but if they cant feel or here when there my be something wrong with the car that can do more harm than someone who can feel there's something wrong and gets it sorted before it becomes a big problem...
I know this doesnt tell you much but my feeling is just listen and feel how the person selling the car talks. mileage isnt always important, looking 100% isnt always important, how do you feel about the car when you look and drive in it and how does the seller make you feel about there car?
Someone might spend a lot of money on specialists servicing and repairing there car but if they cant feel or here when there my be something wrong with the car that can do more harm than someone who can feel there's something wrong and gets it sorted before it becomes a big problem...
you are getting into a way of life,the cerb aint just a car it will become something special.Never had a car like it and probably never will again cos what else is there,just enjoy it and dont plan for big bills cos if it happens it happens you will cross that bridge when you get there.;)
I've decided to jump in with both feet and have agreed to buy a Cerbera but am waiting for the owner to get all of the documentation back to remove the private plate on it. I've read the forums so feel I'm going in to this with my eyes open.
This is just my opinion and going from my experiance of other cars and forums but on forums you will usually only see posts where people are having problems with their car and never of cars that are running problem free, after all whats the point of posting "my cars running with no major problems". No matter what forum you read, be it for an Alfa 156, MGF, Audi A8 there are always hundereds of posts about problems making the cars appere to be far less reliable then they are.
I could be totally wrong about the Cerbera but if I thought it was going to be nothing but problems I would have bought a 911!
This is just my opinion and going from my experiance of other cars and forums but on forums you will usually only see posts where people are having problems with their car and never of cars that are running problem free, after all whats the point of posting "my cars running with no major problems". No matter what forum you read, be it for an Alfa 156, MGF, Audi A8 there are always hundereds of posts about problems making the cars appere to be far less reliable then they are.
I could be totally wrong about the Cerbera but if I thought it was going to be nothing but problems I would have bought a 911!
Don't forget that just by the nature of this forum, people tend to post when they have a problem rather than when everything is going well, so its easy to get a rather skewed view of ownership.
The other thing to bear very much in mind is at the end of the day a Cerbera is a hand built car with supercar performance and need to be treated and serviced as such. Even if you can buy it initially for Mondeo money, in order to keep it reliable it needs much more regular attention than any other car in its price range.
The other thing to bear very much in mind is at the end of the day a Cerbera is a hand built car with supercar performance and need to be treated and serviced as such. Even if you can buy it initially for Mondeo money, in order to keep it reliable it needs much more regular attention than any other car in its price range.
I agree with your views and accept that with maintenance as or before problems arise should give more or less reliable ownership.
But can I reasonably expect that if the main boxes are ticked in terms of the cars condition and history when I buy a good one, and if I keep on top of the maintenance, that scary rebuilds and being stranded in the road is less likely?
But can I reasonably expect that if the main boxes are ticked in terms of the cars condition and history when I buy a good one, and if I keep on top of the maintenance, that scary rebuilds and being stranded in the road is less likely?
Don't be frightened off by em. Every one of us who has bought em has wondered "what's gonna happen next"...
In short two and a half years down the line, 12k miles, no regrets. If you can afford the £3k a year mentioned, don't be put off.
I nearly talked myself out of a Cerb and went for an M Coupe, til I met someone who'd had both and said running costs were similar.
I went for it, best move I could have made. Do it...
In short two and a half years down the line, 12k miles, no regrets. If you can afford the £3k a year mentioned, don't be put off.
I nearly talked myself out of a Cerb and went for an M Coupe, til I met someone who'd had both and said running costs were similar.
I went for it, best move I could have made. Do it...
spongy said:
you are getting into a way of life,the cerb aint just a car it will become something special.Never had a car like it and probably never will again cos what else is there,just enjoy it and dont plan for big bills cos if it happens it happens you will cross that bridge when you get there.;)
Sums it up perfectly, it's a car your heart buys, your head will always say No.On a prospective purchase, apart from a good chassis and an engine that either has been well maintained and/or has had a rebuild from a reputable dealer, I understand from my reading here that musthave modifications or upgrades that should also be either on the car or budgeted for a reliable Cerb are as follows?
upgrade fuel lines
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?)
alloy rad with new hoses
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch
ECU upgrade
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles
electrical contacts in doors
bushes and suspension joints
alarm and immobilizer
trickle charger
seals to keep out rain
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons
stainless steel exhaust system
ICE
Obviously consumables such as tyres and brakes, batteries etc would be ongiong and not necessarily an upgrade.
Potentially a good PH maintained car will have most if not all these items looked at but if there are any other items that would need taking into account I would appreciate your adding to this list.
What about somebody starting a sticky on must have modifications to complement the buyers guide?
upgrade fuel lines
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?)
alloy rad with new hoses
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch
ECU upgrade
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles
electrical contacts in doors
bushes and suspension joints
alarm and immobilizer
trickle charger
seals to keep out rain
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons
stainless steel exhaust system
ICE
Obviously consumables such as tyres and brakes, batteries etc would be ongiong and not necessarily an upgrade.
Potentially a good PH maintained car will have most if not all these items looked at but if there are any other items that would need taking into account I would appreciate your adding to this list.
What about somebody starting a sticky on must have modifications to complement the buyers guide?
I think that when you look at a car you can tell if its been loved or not.For me i only looked at about 6 when viewing,and to be honest not one floated my boat.Each one had faults ie marked paint,oil all over the place,scabby seats etc etc,but i think in all honesty each one was priced for these problems but the car itself did not appeal to me.I had my heart set on a yellow one for some reason
So i bought an orange one
And what a car,yes it has a few niggles but when i saw it on the fellow phers drive i had bought it in my head before we got out of the wifes car.Did'nt do half the normal checks just fell in love there and then,do i worry about big bills......did initialy but not now.Oh and dont set a silly budget if you want a good one you have to pay more,but its worth it in my book;)
On a side note(hope cirvy aint around)4 weeks ago i was offered lets say a considerable amount for the car,much more than i paid and did i sell......NO WAY
So i bought an orange oneAnd what a car,yes it has a few niggles but when i saw it on the fellow phers drive i had bought it in my head before we got out of the wifes car.Did'nt do half the normal checks just fell in love there and then,do i worry about big bills......did initialy but not now.Oh and dont set a silly budget if you want a good one you have to pay more,but its worth it in my book;)On a side note(hope cirvy aint around)4 weeks ago i was offered lets say a considerable amount for the car,much more than i paid and did i sell......NO WAY
jazzdude said:
On a prospective purchase, apart from a good chassis and an engine that either has been well maintained and/or has had a rebuild from a reputable dealer, I understand from my reading here that musthave modifications or upgrades that should also be either on the car or budgeted for a reliable Cerb are as follows?
upgrade fuel lines
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?)
alloy rad with new hoses
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch
ECU upgrade
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles
electrical contacts in doors
bushes and suspension joints
alarm and immobilizer
trickle charger
seals to keep out rain
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons
stainless steel exhaust system
ICE
Most of the above are nice to have items but not essentials or must haves. upgrade fuel lines
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?)
alloy rad with new hoses
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch
ECU upgrade
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles
electrical contacts in doors
bushes and suspension joints
alarm and immobilizer
trickle charger
seals to keep out rain
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons
stainless steel exhaust system
ICE
Obviously if these are your plans then it's best to get something done along that way, but generally just replace stuff as it's needed then make a choice as to what you put in.
i.e.
Fuel lines - really just make sure they aren't cracked/crazed
Clutch assembly - if you need to that's the best, but I wouldn't call it a selling point or a must have
Alloy Rad - I've heard they crack, they are also about £450, when you can get a rad recored (like new) for £150
Cooling chip - lowers the temp the fans come on by 5 degrees, not essential but a good thing to have, usually as part of a joospeed mapping.
ECU upgrade - why? car runs fine on the normal one
Cigarette lighter socket - works fine for power, just don't use it as a cigarette lighter. It'll pop the fuse, which on some cars work the radio and the doors/boot solonoids.
Electrical contacts, bushes - again relace/fix as required but mostly they aren't huge problems just niggles
Alarm and imobilser - it works. If it doesn't get it fixed. Simples
Trickle charger - essential if your car isn't regularly used.
Seals - again, if it leaks, fix it, if it doesn't don't worry.
OEM shocks are fine, Nitrons are good, others are avaiable
Exhaust systems are down a lot to personal choice. The original/SP design with one huge box I found big and heavy, but it's all personal choice.
ICE - depends what you want - or you could enjoy the engine noise
Cerbs generally fall into two categories now. Those that are well looked after/ are sorted (but may have a niggle or two) and those that haven't been looked after. Pick one from the first category and you'll be fine.
jazzdude said:
On a prospective purchase, apart from a good chassis and an engine that either has been well maintained and/or has had a rebuild from a reputable dealer, I understand from my reading here that musthave modifications or upgrades that should also be either on the car or budgeted for a reliable Cerb are as follows?
upgrade fuel lines - Not really, if the old ones have perished, they will have been replaced
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?) - only if the clutch has failed, and then the owner would have had the job done properly anyway
alloy rad with new hoses - IF the rad fails, then a repaired radiator is perfectly good
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch - Not neccassary, but could be handy
ECU upgrade You mean a re-map. Not neccassary, but nice if it's been done
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles - Irrelevant, standard one is fine
electrical contacts in doors - Sometimes they fail, a simple repair job that owners would have done
bushes and suspension joints - A normal 'wear and tear' maintenance item
alarm and immobilizer - Eventually the the Siren battery needs replacing, no one will have done it until it's actually required
trickle charger - I've never used one, but it could be handy
seals to keep out rain - Never had to replace them on either of my Cerbs
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons - Nitrons are the best, but others are perfectly acceptable
stainless steel exhaust system - Maybe, but not essential
ICE - A straightforward Head replacement costing £100 is fine, a decent ICE is not as important as it would be on your everyday normal comfortable car
Obviously consumables such as tyres and brakes, batteries etc would be ongiong and not necessarily an upgrade.
Potentially a good PH maintained car will have most if not all these items looked at but if there are any other items that would need taking into account I would appreciate your adding to this list.
What about somebody starting a sticky on must have modifications to complement the buyers guide?
There are no MUST have modifications. A well maintained standard car with a solid chassis is all you really need to worry about.upgrade fuel lines - Not really, if the old ones have perished, they will have been replaced
clutch assembly (from Raceproved?) - only if the clutch has failed, and then the owner would have had the job done properly anyway
alloy rad with new hoses - IF the rad fails, then a repaired radiator is perfectly good
cooling chip or manual fan over ride switch - Not neccassary, but could be handy
ECU upgrade You mean a re-map. Not neccassary, but nice if it's been done
cigarette lighter as these seem to cause alot of electrical niggles - Irrelevant, standard one is fine
electrical contacts in doors - Sometimes they fail, a simple repair job that owners would have done
bushes and suspension joints - A normal 'wear and tear' maintenance item
alarm and immobilizer - Eventually the the Siren battery needs replacing, no one will have done it until it's actually required
trickle charger - I've never used one, but it could be handy
seals to keep out rain - Never had to replace them on either of my Cerbs
and desirable upgrades
OEM shocks to eg Nitrons - Nitrons are the best, but others are perfectly acceptable
stainless steel exhaust system - Maybe, but not essential
ICE - A straightforward Head replacement costing £100 is fine, a decent ICE is not as important as it would be on your everyday normal comfortable car
Obviously consumables such as tyres and brakes, batteries etc would be ongiong and not necessarily an upgrade.
Potentially a good PH maintained car will have most if not all these items looked at but if there are any other items that would need taking into account I would appreciate your adding to this list.
What about somebody starting a sticky on must have modifications to complement the buyers guide?
pmessling said:
Unfortunately as much as you prepare for every eventuality, like with any car there is always going to be something that you can't be prepared for.
I'll second that Our family box Renault Espace with a mere 80k on it has just thrown a con rod whilst we were on holiday in France, I've been offered the "opportunity" to have it fixed by a Renault dealer near Paris who wants €7½k 
to do an engine exchange.... I look after my Cerb, the feeling of joy every time I look at it never mind drive it is worth the risk that one day it may possibly need something major - I can't say the same about the Espace.............You take a risk with any car, buy a nice one and look after it. At the end of the day a Cerb is a super car and a thrill to own...
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