Alpina B10 v8 1998 Head Gasket
Discussion
Hi all,
I’ve got a 1998 B10 4.6 which has developed what I believe to be the usual head gasket failure early B10 4.6 fall victim to; coughs and splutters on first startup, uses coolant, etc. It’s sat idle for the last year as I have other vehicles and so now I'm in the interesting position of having to choose what to do with it.
I confess I utterly adore it – it’s a very “stealthy” fast car, and huge fun to drive fast, and yet when you just want to relax it’s also very limo-like, plus mine is a very low mileage example (61,000) miles, so my options appear to be ...
1. Sell it as is, describing the problem honestly (which is more than the previous owner did but we’ll gloss over that, and more fool me for not spotting it), where I reckon it’ll make a couple of thousand. This gets me off the hook, money-wise, but means I no longer have the car. Which would be a shame I think, as it’s near immaculate in all other respects.
2. Have the head gaskets done – I believe the later X5 4.6 all-metal gasket goes in to sort the problem once and for all? I have a mate who is an ex-BMW technician but you apparently need a couple of “special tools”, and he's not been able to source those, so that means handing it to a garage – does anyone know what the likely cost is liable to be, and would anyone recommend a garage as doing good work? The car’s based in south London/North Kent, but of course could be trailered around if required. My concern would also be what state would the bores be in after a year of sitting around with a head gasket coolant leak, albeit small (the car drives and runs fine after the first 5 seconds in the morning)?
3. I read somewhere, and I have no idea if it’s true, that the later X5 4.6 v8 is an identical engine in every respect, so might one then just bung the entire lump in, sourcing a secondhand lump and then paying someone to fit it? Likely cost? Compatible with the Switchtronic electrics?
4. Any other ideas?
Any and all useful advice welcomed. Many thanks.
I’ve got a 1998 B10 4.6 which has developed what I believe to be the usual head gasket failure early B10 4.6 fall victim to; coughs and splutters on first startup, uses coolant, etc. It’s sat idle for the last year as I have other vehicles and so now I'm in the interesting position of having to choose what to do with it.
I confess I utterly adore it – it’s a very “stealthy” fast car, and huge fun to drive fast, and yet when you just want to relax it’s also very limo-like, plus mine is a very low mileage example (61,000) miles, so my options appear to be ...
1. Sell it as is, describing the problem honestly (which is more than the previous owner did but we’ll gloss over that, and more fool me for not spotting it), where I reckon it’ll make a couple of thousand. This gets me off the hook, money-wise, but means I no longer have the car. Which would be a shame I think, as it’s near immaculate in all other respects.
2. Have the head gaskets done – I believe the later X5 4.6 all-metal gasket goes in to sort the problem once and for all? I have a mate who is an ex-BMW technician but you apparently need a couple of “special tools”, and he's not been able to source those, so that means handing it to a garage – does anyone know what the likely cost is liable to be, and would anyone recommend a garage as doing good work? The car’s based in south London/North Kent, but of course could be trailered around if required. My concern would also be what state would the bores be in after a year of sitting around with a head gasket coolant leak, albeit small (the car drives and runs fine after the first 5 seconds in the morning)?
3. I read somewhere, and I have no idea if it’s true, that the later X5 4.6 v8 is an identical engine in every respect, so might one then just bung the entire lump in, sourcing a secondhand lump and then paying someone to fit it? Likely cost? Compatible with the Switchtronic electrics?
4. Any other ideas?
Any and all useful advice welcomed. Many thanks.
OK you may well be able to sell it on with the fault declared but the market for these babies is truly horrible at the moment and shifting one with a suspect bad HG isn't going to be easy.
Assuming you don't want to just get rid your first steps have to be to get fault codes checked and then a sniffer test done on the coolant for combustion gas and a compression test done. These V8's can be absolute sods for coolant loss and odd missfires etc so although it does seem likely that the HG is on the way or has failed you'd be daft to have the engine stripped down without concrete proof that it's had it.
Yes there could well have been bore damage if it's been like that for a year but as long as it hasn't overheated these engines are pretty robust so you might get away with it.
The X5 gaskets are the way to go for sure and AFAIK they have superceded the original "organic" gaskets Alpina used to use. Assuming the engine hasn't suffered any further internal damage I'd be expecting to pay about £1500 to get the gaskets done.
You might be able to transplant an X5 engine in, I've never heard of it being done though. I understand it's identical to the later B10 V8 engines too but as a 1998 car yours may possibly have an earlier version.
The experts for this sort of thing hang out on the forum at www.thealpinaregister.com so it's well worth popping in there, I know there is at least one guy there who's been there and done it. There are also a couple of very well respected indies not too far away from you - Phil Crouch runs one and is generally reckoned to be a wizard with Alpinas - www.cpcpe.com
HTH
Assuming you don't want to just get rid your first steps have to be to get fault codes checked and then a sniffer test done on the coolant for combustion gas and a compression test done. These V8's can be absolute sods for coolant loss and odd missfires etc so although it does seem likely that the HG is on the way or has failed you'd be daft to have the engine stripped down without concrete proof that it's had it.
Yes there could well have been bore damage if it's been like that for a year but as long as it hasn't overheated these engines are pretty robust so you might get away with it.
The X5 gaskets are the way to go for sure and AFAIK they have superceded the original "organic" gaskets Alpina used to use. Assuming the engine hasn't suffered any further internal damage I'd be expecting to pay about £1500 to get the gaskets done.
You might be able to transplant an X5 engine in, I've never heard of it being done though. I understand it's identical to the later B10 V8 engines too but as a 1998 car yours may possibly have an earlier version.
The experts for this sort of thing hang out on the forum at www.thealpinaregister.com so it's well worth popping in there, I know there is at least one guy there who's been there and done it. There are also a couple of very well respected indies not too far away from you - Phil Crouch runs one and is generally reckoned to be a wizard with Alpinas - www.cpcpe.com
HTH
charltjr said:
OK
HTH
It certainly did, thank you ... it did overheat (due to a fractured coolant pipe while running near flat-out in the south of France) so I suspect that it may need more than just 2 x head gaskets.HTH
I quite fancy the idea of popping in a known, good, later X5 engine, but need to be sure it's a proper fit, rather than a bodge.
Logically, I should just flog it for whatever I can get for it (it'd be the very first car I've ever made a big loss on, in about 25 years of buying and selling, so I'm not especially unhappy), but given its condition and how much I enjoy it I'm sorely tempted to get it back to its former glory, or possibly even better (like by supercharging the engine maybe? Mind you it drinks enough 97 RON petrol as it is, so maybe not!). However, I know full well these "projects" can end up as a money pits, so I need to have a careful think.
Cheers for the contacts - I'll get over to the Alpina bods ASAP.
Vixpy1 said:
Defo Phil Crouch, He's done alot of Alpina head gaskets
I went to his site and have emailed him, so let's see what he says.BTW after it overheated and the ruptured coolant pipe was replaced I did a further 1,500 miles in it through france and italy - would this suggest that there's no head damage? Ie if the head(s) had been warped, would it not have spat the dummy shortly after? Or does it not work like that?
I had the "plain" 4.4 v8 in an E32 7-series a few years back and when the radiator on that shattered it boiled over in the biggest possible way (I stupidly poured cold water into it, and it was so hot it shot back out as superheated steam!) and that didn't warp at all, so maybe it'll be ok?
It's all ifs, ands and maybes eh
Apart from the head gaskets, are they generally reliable? Ie if I sort this lot out, is it then liable to plough on for some time without needing an arm and a leg throwing at it every few months?
They're pretty much like any other V8 E39 in terms of reliability, generally very solid but the cooling system is failure prone and the gearboxes can play up with age, camshaft position sensors, ABS sensors and MAFs go too along with the usual E39 suspension bushes etc.
Keep on top of the maintenance and don't skimp on parts and there's no reason it won't run and run, there are plenty of them out there with twice your milage and more. I did 25k miles in mine over 18 months and it cost me a bloody fortune, but then I bought it just prior to 100k miles and ended up replacing most of the suspension, the cooling system and a MAF plus having an LPG conversion done too. The only regret I have about the car? Selling it.
It sounds like you may have got away with your overheating incident, that's a typical V8 issue right there, coolant hose splits and before you know it the temp gauge is in the red.
As you say it really is just "maybe" until someone who knows is in the guts of the engine, if it was mine I'd pay someone to give it a proper check but as always you pays your money you makes your choices
Keep on top of the maintenance and don't skimp on parts and there's no reason it won't run and run, there are plenty of them out there with twice your milage and more. I did 25k miles in mine over 18 months and it cost me a bloody fortune, but then I bought it just prior to 100k miles and ended up replacing most of the suspension, the cooling system and a MAF plus having an LPG conversion done too. The only regret I have about the car? Selling it.
It sounds like you may have got away with your overheating incident, that's a typical V8 issue right there, coolant hose splits and before you know it the temp gauge is in the red.
As you say it really is just "maybe" until someone who knows is in the guts of the engine, if it was mine I'd pay someone to give it a proper check but as always you pays your money you makes your choices
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 22 August 16:37
My last 98 B10 Touring V8s head gaskets failed at 66k and cost me £2.8k in repairs, though I did a cylinder head decoke and renewed cooling system at the same time.
Difficult one to call, being a pre facelift saloon I'm not sure there's enough equity in the car, if that's the right term. The touring commanded a premium, wore 19" classics, latest nav and facelift lights etc so sold it at a good price.
I've seen plenty of saloons linger on the classifieds so if if doesn't owe you much I'd think about letting it go and taking a hit.
Tough one to call, only you know whether or not it's worth the investment.
Otherwise I heartily recommend punting it for a B7 :-)
Best of luck!
Difficult one to call, being a pre facelift saloon I'm not sure there's enough equity in the car, if that's the right term. The touring commanded a premium, wore 19" classics, latest nav and facelift lights etc so sold it at a good price.
I've seen plenty of saloons linger on the classifieds so if if doesn't owe you much I'd think about letting it go and taking a hit.
Tough one to call, only you know whether or not it's worth the investment.
Otherwise I heartily recommend punting it for a B7 :-)
Best of luck!
I had my B10 V8 for 8 years and the only trouble I had in all that time was a split radiator, which is a well known problem.
I can highly recommend Mark of MJF engineering near Dorking, he looked after my B10 and will not replace/renew/repair anything that he considers does not need doing.
He has rebuilt a B10 Bi Turbo engine so certainly knows what he is doing.
I tried Phil Crouch but he never replied to my many messages
.
As far as I can remember M5 gaskets can also be used albeit with a slight modification.
The only regret I had with my B10 was selling it, but I got seduced by a younger model
B3BT.
Mark can be contacted on: 01306 713232 or 07770 664050
I can highly recommend Mark of MJF engineering near Dorking, he looked after my B10 and will not replace/renew/repair anything that he considers does not need doing.
He has rebuilt a B10 Bi Turbo engine so certainly knows what he is doing.
I tried Phil Crouch but he never replied to my many messages
.As far as I can remember M5 gaskets can also be used albeit with a slight modification.
The only regret I had with my B10 was selling it, but I got seduced by a younger model
B3BT.Mark can be contacted on: 01306 713232 or 07770 664050
B10BRW said:
I had my B10 V8 for 8 years and the only trouble I had in all that time was a split radiator, which is a well known problem.
Yes mine had one of those, but that was my fault for pinging it over a yump at about 70, touching the front down a tad firmly upon re-entry (in a Lord Major of Hiroshima “WTF was that bang?!” type way), and catching the bottom of the rad, bending it enough to cause a leak. Cue new rad.I emailed Phil yesterday, he phoned me back this morning, and we’ve had a long chat about symptoms, damage from it overheating, etc.
The feeling is that, since it ran smoothly on a single 1,100 mile run from Italy to London, after the blow-up, it’s unlikely the heads have been damaged. Some concerns over it having then sat for a year, but we won’t know the rest til it gets opened up.
Obviously a fixed price at this stage is impossible without knowing what else other than the head gaskets needs to be done (and yes, all-metal gaskets can be fitted to replace the troublesome composites). Assuming it’s just diagnosis and then the head gaskets alone then we’re talking £1,500, and if it’s more then we’ll see what it is when we get in there. I have to say Phil did sound very knowledgeable, especially on diagnosis and “probable cause”, and I also liked the fact he didn’t leap straight in with “it’s definitely X”, but rather wanted to confirm in a “it can be X, Y, or Z, so to confirm we need to do A, which would mean it’s X, then B, which would mean Y ...” and so on.
So (deep intake of breath), since I've never, ever, missed driving a car as much as I miss driving the B10 (and I’ve had a lot of good cars), I'm going to have the work done, probably sometime in September. Phil’s sending a trailer for it, as it’s un-roadworthy at present (and un-MOT’d to boot!).
Wish me luck! And thanks to all those who replied.
Max M4X WW said:
Sounds great! You do sound like you have your heart in the car and you'll be avoiding that 'what if/want another' feeling which would be inevitable if you sold it!
The problem is that, in my experience, it's when people get emotionally attached to cars that things get very expensive.However, as it's only done 61,000 miles, scrapping it now seems a total waste.
The total bill is likely to be around the £2k mark once that, and a couple of other odds and sods are done. If (big if!) it's then reliable afterwards (with regular servicing, obviously) then I'll be happy, and will probably LPG it to reduce the crippling fuel consumption (and it only wants 97+RON petrol too, the fussy thing). If not, the next time it goes phut I'll take a pickaxe to it.
Edited by b
dbear on Tuesday 23 August 19:52
dbear on Tuesday 23 August 19:52Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff