What is biking etiquette thesedays?
Discussion
Was just on my daily drive home and after a bit of a wait to get onto the main road a car flashed me through, I edged forward then noticed a cyclist pedalling along in the bus lane about 5/6 cars (maybe more actually) behind the guy that flashed me.
I stop and wonder whether hes going to slow down and let me enter the traffic, so then I edge forward slightly to which he gets an angry face, and starts long swerve around the front of me, there's still a HUGE gap. So I wait for him to cycle round and as he does he looks at me and shouts
'f
kING PRICK'
I genuinely do not know what I did wrong.
So, is it that it is wrong to ever slow a cyclist down?
Should one never even try and gauge a situation involving a cyclist and instead assume everyone should wait for the cyclist to do what is optimum for them?
Or should a cyclist get angry and shout at someone that he thought MAY not have seen him (even though he had loads of room to stop if I didn't)
Any thoughts?
I stop and wonder whether hes going to slow down and let me enter the traffic, so then I edge forward slightly to which he gets an angry face, and starts long swerve around the front of me, there's still a HUGE gap. So I wait for him to cycle round and as he does he looks at me and shouts
'f
kING PRICK'I genuinely do not know what I did wrong.
So, is it that it is wrong to ever slow a cyclist down?
Should one never even try and gauge a situation involving a cyclist and instead assume everyone should wait for the cyclist to do what is optimum for them?
Or should a cyclist get angry and shout at someone that he thought MAY not have seen him (even though he had loads of room to stop if I didn't)
Any thoughts?
sjg said:
So you start emerging into the bus lane without checking it's clear? Then when you saw the cyclist you decided to keep moving out?
What part of giving way do you not understand?
When i first looked he must have been round the corner and hidden by the cars next to him, I did check once I edged out, he was way away, when I started dithering (guilty) he was a bit closer. And I didn't 'decide to keep moving out', I edged out slightly and stopped, still leaving him about 90% of the bus lane all to himself when he decided to throw a tantrum.What part of giving way do you not understand?
The only reason I was dithering was cos I thought he was slowing down to let me cross. It's not like I didn't see him or nearly hit him or anything.
Or if theres a cyclist approaching at any distance should all cars have to wait?
I ride a bike myself on roads quite alot in the summer months and i end up slowing down for the odd car pulling out of a road quite alot. It's kind of what happens when road users have to share the same road. I've never started started swearing at people.
Edited by amirzed on Tuesday 23 August 20:06
amirzed said:
Or if theres a cyclist approaching at any distance should all cars have to wait?
They are traffic, just like everything else. The law requires that you give way to traffic when emerging from a junction with broken lines. If you can complete the move without making anyone take evasive action, then do so. But if a cyclist (or anyone else) is approaching and you can't do it without forcing them to slow or stop, then wait. 6 car lengths (with gaps in stationary/slow traffic) is optimistically 35 metres. 15mph (a reasonable speed on the flat for a cyclist) is nearly 7 metres a second. That's not a lot of thinking and braking time if someone is cutting you off.
Lots of drivers will try to push their way into traffic, especially over anyone they consider more vulnerable than them, who they assume will slow to let them out. From the rider's perspective, that's what your actions may have looked like - especially as you moved again after seeing him and stopping the first time. If you judged him to be far enough away to complete the move, you should have just got on with it. If he isn't, you really should have stayed put.
Human nature, I'm afraid, old boy. He (cyclist) has probably had a close shave with some eejit who, unlike you, didn't either look, or see him, and he's gone and tarred you with that self same brush. A bit trigger-happy and not very charitable of him, but understandable in a way, based on the increased vulnerability of his choice of transport. The nub of this problem is the incorrect use of 'flashed headlights'. I'm not on an 'I know the highway code/law better than you' trip here, but the use of flashed lights to invite someone to join a stream of traffic is almost always a cosy little deal between two individuals. Problems arise when there are other 'interested parties', in this case users of the bus lane, who also have rights, responsibilities and needs on the road. I'm not saying it's always the case, but often the'flasher' and the 'flashee', whilst entering into their private deal, fail to consider the impact it has on other users of the road, who they may not be aware of, and who may not be aware of the upcoming manoeuvre. Classic among these situations is where some mongtard actually slows or stops on a main road to allow someone out from a minor joining road, holding up traffic without reasonable cause, when a quick glance in his/her mirror would have revealed that the road behind the following car, (ME), (yes, I'm 
here) is completely clear. If traffic is very busy and already very slow or stop-start, it is entirely reasonable to allow traffic to join against the priority, but it is a CARDINAL SIN to actually affect the flow of traffic to facilitate it. Back to the original post though, and another reason for the cyclist's anger could be that he's got a problem with his perception of danger posed by other traffic, and over-estimated the effect of your perceived proximity to him as you edged out.
Final word to all: ALWAYS check that your way is clear, regardless of whether or not you have been 'flashed' out. You are responsible for any incident or collision resulting from your failure to carry out the correct observations before carrying out any manoeuvre, and if you think that the person who just 'flashed' you out will stick around to be a witness in any resulting dangerous/due care case, you've got more faith in human nature than most.
here) is completely clear. If traffic is very busy and already very slow or stop-start, it is entirely reasonable to allow traffic to join against the priority, but it is a CARDINAL SIN to actually affect the flow of traffic to facilitate it. Back to the original post though, and another reason for the cyclist's anger could be that he's got a problem with his perception of danger posed by other traffic, and over-estimated the effect of your perceived proximity to him as you edged out.Final word to all: ALWAYS check that your way is clear, regardless of whether or not you have been 'flashed' out. You are responsible for any incident or collision resulting from your failure to carry out the correct observations before carrying out any manoeuvre, and if you think that the person who just 'flashed' you out will stick around to be a witness in any resulting dangerous/due care case, you've got more faith in human nature than most.
yellowjack said:
Human nature, I'm afraid, old boy. He (cyclist) has probably had a close shave with some eejit who, unlike you, didn't either look, or see him, and he's gone and tarred you with that self same brush. A bit trigger-happy and not very charitable of him, but understandable in a way, based on the increased vulnerability of his choice of transport. The nub of this problem is the incorrect use of 'flashed headlights'. I'm not on an 'I know the highway code/law better than you' trip here, but the use of flashed lights to invite someone to join a stream of traffic is almost always a cosy little deal between two individuals. Problems arise when there are other 'interested parties', in this case users of the bus lane, who also have rights, responsibilities and needs on the road. I'm not saying it's always the case, but often the'flasher' and the 'flashee', whilst entering into their private deal, fail to consider the impact it has on other users of the road, who they may not be aware of, and who may not be aware of the upcoming manoeuvre. Classic among these situations is where some mongtard actually slows or stops on a main road to allow someone out from a minor joining road, holding up traffic without reasonable cause, when a quick glance in his/her mirror would have revealed that the road behind the following car, (ME), (yes, I'm here) is completely clear. If traffic is very busy and already very slow or stop-start, it is entirely reasonable to allow traffic to join against the priority, but it is a CARDINAL SIN to actually affect the flow of traffic to facilitate it. Back to the original post though, and another reason for the cyclist's anger could be that he's got a problem with his perception of danger posed by other traffic, and over-estimated the effect of your perceived proximity to him as you edged out.
Final word to all: ALWAYS check that your way is clear, regardless of whether or not you have been 'flashed' out. You are responsible for any incident or collision resulting from your failure to carry out the correct observations before carrying out any manoeuvre, and if you think that the person who just 'flashed' you out will stick around to be a witness in any resulting dangerous/due care case, you've got more faith in human nature than most.
good point about flashers(!), the number of accidents i have seen in car parks because a third party hasnt seen the flash between the two in question is incredible... here) is completely clear. If traffic is very busy and already very slow or stop-start, it is entirely reasonable to allow traffic to join against the priority, but it is a CARDINAL SIN to actually affect the flow of traffic to facilitate it. Back to the original post though, and another reason for the cyclist's anger could be that he's got a problem with his perception of danger posed by other traffic, and over-estimated the effect of your perceived proximity to him as you edged out.Final word to all: ALWAYS check that your way is clear, regardless of whether or not you have been 'flashed' out. You are responsible for any incident or collision resulting from your failure to carry out the correct observations before carrying out any manoeuvre, and if you think that the person who just 'flashed' you out will stick around to be a witness in any resulting dangerous/due care case, you've got more faith in human nature than most.
As a regular bus lane user on both bikes and motorbikes, I can assure you that "flashers" are a severe danger to my life and limb.
You wouldn't pull out in front of a bus if a car flashed you, so (rude as it may seem) ignore someone who politely offers to let you out if you cannot safely do so.
You wouldn't pull out in front of a bus if a car flashed you, so (rude as it may seem) ignore someone who politely offers to let you out if you cannot safely do so.
Also remember the cyclists adrenaline will be flowing, heart pumping etc due to excercise therefore saying- "Watchout for us bicyclists old-chap" is often shortened to "F**king Prick" for ease, he might not a potty mouthed yob in reality just fearing for his life!
IMO all motorists should be made to cycle in heavy traffic at least once, the fear it would put into them would make them better drivers.
IMO all motorists should be made to cycle in heavy traffic at least once, the fear it would put into them would make them better drivers.
someone pulled out of a side road in front of me and I hit the side of his car. His excuse was that "the van behind you flashed to let me out" I got him to repeat it twice before asking how stupid he thought it sounded.
We do sometimes get a bit het up, so I wouldn't take it personally, he probably wanted you to 'have a word with yourself' which you have done, and you have listened to the points made very amicably unlike others who have posted on here!
We do sometimes get a bit het up, so I wouldn't take it personally, he probably wanted you to 'have a word with yourself' which you have done, and you have listened to the points made very amicably unlike others who have posted on here!
I'd agree with the majority so far. Around 7 miles of my commute is along a cycle superhighway which is mostly in bus lanes alongside the A24 and A3. The only times I've ever felt threatened by other road users - and do so multiple times per week - is with drivers pulling onto or off the main road over the cycle lane.
Why is it that some motorists who would never actually drive in the bus and cycle lane think it is perfectly acceptable to just pull into it and stop as though it wasn't there?
Why is it also that some motorists think nothing of bimbling out into my path provoking an emergency stop from 20mph?
Even setting aside the potential dangers, it doesn't take much thought to realise how much harder it is for a cyclist to get back up to speed than it is for a motorist. I'd view it in the same way as motorised boats giving way to sailboats.
Why is it that some motorists who would never actually drive in the bus and cycle lane think it is perfectly acceptable to just pull into it and stop as though it wasn't there?
Why is it also that some motorists think nothing of bimbling out into my path provoking an emergency stop from 20mph?
Even setting aside the potential dangers, it doesn't take much thought to realise how much harder it is for a cyclist to get back up to speed than it is for a motorist. I'd view it in the same way as motorised boats giving way to sailboats.
Mr Will said:
Would you have made the second "edge forwards" if a bus was coming?
Well if the bus (cyclist) was far enough away I would have done. Reality is that if you dont make an effort to get out of side turns in the rush hour, you'd never get out. All road users should be considerate to each other and not adopt a "Its my right of way so I am coming anyway" approach.Everyone occasioanlly nakes mistakes and hurling abuse does not help matters, in fact its a sympton of todays society which is all me me me. In this case it appears the cyclist wasnt prepared to slow to allow the driver out, but the driver still left the cyclist plenty of room so why should he complain?
Chrisgr31 said:
Well if the bus (cyclist) was far enough away I would have done. Reality is that if you dont make an effort to get out of side turns in the rush hour, you'd never get out. All road users should be considerate to each other and not adopt a "Its my right of way so I am coming anyway" approach.
Everyone occasioanlly nakes mistakes and hurling abuse does not help matters, in fact its a sympton of todays society which is all me me me. In this case it appears the cyclist wasnt prepared to slow to allow the driver out, but the driver still left the cyclist plenty of room so why should he complain?
Everyone occasioanlly nakes mistakes and hurling abuse does not help matters, in fact its a sympton of todays society which is all me me me. In this case it appears the cyclist wasnt prepared to slow to allow the driver out, but the driver still left the cyclist plenty of room so why should he complain?
Same reason that you would probably complain if a car driver 'edged' out in front of YOU. The 'Right of Way' refers only to your inalienable right to pass and repass over a given route or road. The system of PRIORITIES employed on our roads is clear, whereby the users already on a Primary Route will have PRIORITY over the users on a Secondary Route UNLESS road signs and markings instruct to the contrary. That means if you are waiting to turn out from a side road, you MUST do exactly that, and wait, until the way ahead becomes clear, or someone kindly cedes their priority to you, in which case you must emerge safely with due consideration to ALL road users. Unbelievably, to many, the term 'road user' also applies to pedestrians, whether they are using the FOOTWAY or crossing the CARRIAGEWAY. I would suggest that there is now, on our roads, a worrying majority of road users who do not either understand or apply priorities, and, in the Farnborough/Frimley area at least, this results in a free-for-all at certain roundabouts/junctions. Most worrying is the bullying/pushing out (in?) that goes on at the Frimley Park Hospital roundabout during evening rush. This causes chaos at the entrance to the only A&E hospital for a very densely populated area. Do the people who cause the chaos ever stop to consider that the resultant gridlock could one day mean that their partner/child/parent could die in the back of an ambulance that cannot get to the hospital due to a similarly selfish/impatient person to themselves? Here endeth the lesson.
PS: If it's busy, and you are waiting to turn out of a junction/roundabout, AND I feel that it is safe and reasonable, I WILL invite you to join ahead of me. It's no skin off my nose, and at least 50% of the time you will turn off again and leave me occupying the exact same road space as before. I won't flash my lights, but as you have made eye contact, I will indicate to you with a wave of my hand. If, however, you do not make eye contact, and/or edge forward in an impatient or downright aggressive manner, trying to push your way out, I WILL do everything in my power to ensure you remain where you are. Furthermore, if you are tempted to go 'toe-to-toe', I can be fairly certain that your car is worth a lot more than mine, and you probably like yours better than I like mine. Oh, and I need an excuse to get a new one anyway. So if you feel lucky, pull out in front of me. One day I'll loose patience with the attitude, and may just experience a delay in getting to the brake pedal. I guarantee that the photos of any resulting collision will demonstrate beyond any doubt that you 'failed to emerge safely'. Good luck with that NCD!
Edited by yellowjack on Thursday 25th August 09:11
Chrisgr31 said:
Well if the bus (cyclist) was far enough away I would have done. Reality is that if you dont make an effort to get out of side turns in the rush hour, you'd never get out. All road users should be considerate to each other and not adopt a "Its my right of way so I am coming anyway" approach.
Everyone occasioanlly nakes mistakes and hurling abuse does not help matters, in fact its a sympton of todays society which is all me me me. In this case it appears the cyclist wasnt prepared to slow to allow the driver out, but the driver still left the cyclist plenty of room so why should he complain?
You've never been sprawled over a bonnet, have you....Everyone occasioanlly nakes mistakes and hurling abuse does not help matters, in fact its a sympton of todays society which is all me me me. In this case it appears the cyclist wasnt prepared to slow to allow the driver out, but the driver still left the cyclist plenty of room so why should he complain?
Would you also chance pulling into the path of an articulated lorry? So why do it to a cyclist?
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